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JanesOpinion – Actually, I understood the “Jesus Christ” deal.

And, I too believe in “innocent until proved guilty” but at the time I initially posted, he had already admitted to much of the truth, and has sense then admitted to all of it, and has since been permanently fired by the National Association of Evangelicals, rather than just on leave as was stated initially.

To contradict your statement of supposed fact, “…For people such as blogflogger, misconduct such as Haggard's ) is only fuel for their bitter rhetoric against all Christians and evangelicals”, this is not in fact accurate. Had you read my two posts and subsequent comment on this man, you would have read that I despise hypocrites, and I further hold a special distaste for those who lead the masses, preach their hypocritical rhetoric, and cause unwitting victims such as his family and evangelicals. I have long felt that religion is used to manipulate and control the masses, and I think its disgusting to do so.

I took my shots at this man for the ugly stance he took against homosexuals, and the ugly teachings he spread to his flock, all the while being in a position where he, of all people, should understand better than most.

Please stop to think before you give credit to others for behavior and motives about which you can’t possible be certain.

posted by blogflogger on November 6, 2006 at 12:03 PM | link to this | reply

Glennb -- "flowery" and empty words? Hello? Did you actually read it?

You're right! God is not mocked. Which is why I said that Haggard WILL be held accountable to God for his conduct.

Glennb, that verse you quoted also applies to you. . . and me. So please, careful what you say, brother.

posted by JanesOpinion on November 5, 2006 at 3:06 PM | link to this | reply

JanesOpinion,

You and Corbin Dallas are very flowery with empty words! I do not think you or any of you people get the "real" point! "Be ye Not Deceived, God is Not Mocked..."! I Thank God That He Is!

posted by Glennb on November 5, 2006 at 10:42 AM | link to this | reply

Very well said......

and exactly my point!

posted by Corbin_Dallas on November 5, 2006 at 10:22 AM | link to this | reply

Corbin, me thinks that blogflogger missed the point about your leader

being Jesus Christ. People such as Haggard (and I have heard of him but did not realize he had such a standing in the Bush WH), who rise to such positions of authority must have all the more reason to be careful as to their conduct, because of their high level of responsibility. He will be held accountable before Christ for his conduct. Jesus Christ is our leader, but pastors such as Haggard have oversight over the flock, so to speak. If these rumors are proven true, it will be like a slap in the face to Christ.

For people such as blogflogger, misconduct such as Haggard's (although he SHOULD BE innocent until proven guilty) is only fuel for their bitter rhetoric against all Christians and evangelicals. If a person such as Haggard is going to take such a stand against homosexual marriage, then his own conduct should be impeccable.

posted by JanesOpinion on November 5, 2006 at 9:52 AM | link to this | reply

I have to agree with you, it's a personal tragedy for the people who love

him, and to the rest of us, just more smoke and mirrors at election time. I've had just about enough of this type of thing. Problem is, what do I do? Many of us talk about moving to Canada, but I doubt it's so much better there.

posted by Schatz on November 4, 2006 at 4:49 PM | link to this | reply

Corbin

Here we go again. We have 300 million people now, and a certain percentage of them are homosexual. With that population you can selectively find whatever aberrant behavior you want. I never heard of this guy either, and i listen to Family Life Radio. I resent that this is being used in an election.

posted by LeRoyCoyote on November 4, 2006 at 3:24 PM | link to this | reply

I've been doing some research this morning, Blogflogger...........

Especially about the claims of weekly contacts by this man with the White House, spiritual advisor to Bush....and Rove......stuff like that.....

In David Kuo's new book.....Tempting Faith: An Inside Story of Political Seduction.........you should love this one Blogger, it's one of those exposes of the evil workings of the Bush White House.....

It revolves around how Rove and the administration "tolerated" the flamboyant" evangelical leaders.....set up a network of groups to disseminate key talking points and rally the troops type of thing.......A "Keep em feeling good, make em think they're in the inner circle" kind of thing......Something I have to compliment you boy, Billy Jeff on.....he was damned good at it!

From the book

"Rove's Public Liaison office had a religious outreach team in constant contact with evangelical and social conservative groups about every facet of the president's policy and political agenda. Leading that team was Tim Goeglein…

"He talked to religious conservatives about everything: judges, stem cell research, abortion, presidential appointments, health care, and anything else they wanted to discuss. As part of their outreach they held weekly – or more often, as necessary – conference calls to update that community on events and announcements while simultaneously soliciting their feedback. Regulars on the call were Tom Minnery, head of public policy for James Dobson's Focus on the Family; Ted Haggard, pastor of New Life Church in Colorado Springs and head of the National Association of Evangelicals; Deal Hudson, conservative Catholic and publisher of Crisis magazine; Jay Sekulow, head of Pat Robertson's American Center for Law and Justice; Ken Connor, then head of the Family Research Council; Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission; and Christian talk radio hosts Janet Parshall and Michael Reagan, among others.

"This network of people covered virtually every area of evangelical Christianity. The calls began with an overview of what the president would be talking about in the coming week. If necessary, participants were asked to talk to their people about whatever issue was pending. Talking points were distributed and advice was solicited. That advice rarely went much further than the conference call. There wasn't any malice or negligence behind this. It was just that the true purpose of these calls was to keep prominent social conservatives and their groups or audiences happy." (pp. 170-171)

I'm sure you publicly find such activity abhorrent........but it a fact of life in running a political operation.........

You've been making it sound like ol' Ted could just call up and talk to GW or Karl on the spot......but that's hardly the truth....you want it to be so......but it's not.

But ol' Ted was ambitious enough to spread the word to everyone around him that it was.......

“We have direct access (to the White House,)” Haggard told a Wall Street Journal reporter shortly before the last presidential election, adding he could take a concern to the president through staff and get a response within 24 hours.

When he rose to the leadership position in the Evangelical group....I'll bet it was a key plank in his campaign to head the group.

Why Ted was a spiritual advisor to the President.......and you make it sound like GW was taking his advise......but Colorado newspapers write differently:

"the Rev. Ted Haggard has advised the White House on issues ranging from judicial appointments to steel tariffs, but he also sought to widen the agenda of Christian evangelicals into areas of the Bush administration — and many of his Christian brethren — would rather avoid."

"he criticized the White House for emphasizing the evangelical faith of failed nominee Harriet Miers, rather than her judicial philosophy."

"Haggard has angered some religious conservatives for urging Christians to protect Muslims in the days following 9/11 and more recently for urging missionary outreach to Muslims, but not to win converts or force Christianity on them."

"Last summer, he joined an eclectic group of 27 religious leaders who ruffled the White House with a statement published in newspaper advertisements urging the government to “abolish torture now — without exception” in dealings with prisoners, including those suspected of terrorist activity."

"He was one of the few religious conservatives to endorse a 2003 Supreme Court decision striking down Texas’ anti-sodomy law on privacy grounds".

"Haggard’s recent efforts promoted, through the NAE, a “broad biblical agenda” that included improving health care, ending racism and addressing global warming,"

It sounds to me like GW wasn't paying a whole lot of attention to what this man had to say.......considering he was at odds with the administration......

Why goodness, flogger....

I've given you a new opening........

This guy was at odds with the Bush agenda....so Rove had him outed to take care of the problem.......see how easy that was to create a cause and effect?

posted by Corbin_Dallas on November 4, 2006 at 6:25 AM | link to this | reply

blogflogger........

You are amazing.....you talk about being for the truth and facts and then you spout your opinions....key word here, opinions.......These opinions are nurtured by a good dose of BS from extreme left blogs and anti-bush sites....and you know what?

There's nothing wrong with that!

It's OK to be a political junkie.......an operative so to speak.......the difference is I wear the mantel proudly and you seem to be ashamed to admit it! It's not hard to do.....

Come on....take a couple of deep breaths.....one....two....now say it proudly!

I HAVE AN AGENDA!

Once again.......I HAVE AN AGENDA!

I know you'll feel better and be a hell of a lot less "up tight" and so prone to "name calling"..........

posted by Corbin_Dallas on November 4, 2006 at 5:18 AM | link to this | reply

Corbin Dallas

You and I apparently belong to the same Evangelical movement because Jesus Christ is my only leader. I am not part of what the world calls the church either. I am part of the body of Christ, individuals as the Church. I don't know this man, never heard of him and I would think those who favor what he appears to have adopted would be glad to have another member of their movement. Be blessed!

posted by Justi on November 4, 2006 at 1:39 AM | link to this | reply

This guy was a weekly advisor to the White House. A Bush spiritual ...

... advisor. And the outing of this guy shouldn't be news? He had scheduled weekly conference calls to Karl Roves office. Denial?

posted by blogflogger on November 3, 2006 at 11:05 PM | link to this | reply

whacky

exactly. But there is in fact much in the news, but all we get is stupid, insignificant non issue crap like this. But apparently some people think it is quite newsworthy to the point of going and doing research on the guy.

posted by calmcantey75 on November 3, 2006 at 10:35 PM | link to this | reply

Must have been a really slow news day.

Because really who cares?

posted by Whacky on November 3, 2006 at 10:28 PM | link to this | reply

why doesn't the media hold up bin Laden

as the representative of Islam? Why all the slobbering over a leading evangelical who is gay? Why does the big media only expose the warts of christianity, with the bloggers trailing behind clapping piously and sanctimoniously as if they just heard a sermon in church?

As if the discovery of blemishes or "bad apples" discredits and invalidates the entire faith and its true adherents.

why is it such a "big story" to begin with? Splashed all over the news when there are much bigger and far more imperative issues out there that should be being reported and examined. So christianity has some hypocrites. And?

the people who are jumping on the bandwagon to hold this thing up should ask these questions as well.

posted by calmcantey75 on November 3, 2006 at 10:21 PM | link to this | reply

I don't think its a question of getting quiet. I think it is a matter of not knowing who the man is. He definitely plays no part in my life and you seem to think he does in Corbins. I also doubt our President has any spiritual leader other than God almighty. Afterall that is who we answer to now isn't it!

Now how about that senator whose had cold cash under his frozen lasagna...think he should resign? Nah probably doesn't have the common decency to do so.

posted by Offy on November 3, 2006 at 9:58 PM | link to this | reply

Corbin Dallas,

That cartoon you displayed in an earlier Post! Seems to fit here rather nicely! Cut and Run from "some preacher in Colorado"???

posted by Glennb on November 3, 2006 at 9:46 PM | link to this | reply

if you stand on the the proverbial soap box

at least tell the truth - a liar is a liar

posted by ladychardonnay on November 3, 2006 at 9:00 PM | link to this | reply

Floggy......

I not only didn't know who he is....but I don't care who he is......or perhaps better said....was........

Hmmm? you really have shown me.......damn, I probably won't be able to sleep tonight.

Scoop....why do you come by here anyway? I've been tolorant of you....you stop me from commenting on you.......but you come by here and comment.....oh, well, what the hell........after all a click is a click, right?

posted by Corbin_Dallas on November 3, 2006 at 8:40 PM | link to this | reply

Schatz

Then he deserves whatever he gets.......I am not familiar with his background or history........I don't like the TV type preachers.....I saw the coverage tonight on Fox and the first thing that came to mind was Jim Bakker.

I don't need these types to give me my personal convictions. If this all turns out true....he was total fraud. I feel sorry for the thousands he may have misled in his church and I still feel very sorry for his family........

posted by Corbin_Dallas on November 3, 2006 at 8:31 PM | link to this | reply

Scoop - Yep, you know me, give 'em facts and watch them get quiet.

posted by blogflogger on November 3, 2006 at 7:11 PM | link to this | reply

Well Blogflogger I guess you covered that

posted by scoop on November 3, 2006 at 6:23 PM | link to this | reply

Don't know who Haggart is? Read below.

He is a spiritual advisor to President Bush, and has a scheduled weekly call with Karl Rove's office.

Pastor Ted Haggard is the president of the 30 million-member National Association of Evangelicals (NAE), the largest evangelical group in America. He is also founder and senior pastor of the 14,000-member New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado. He formed and serves as the president of both the Association of Life-Giving Churches, a network of local churches, and worldprayerteam.org, the only real-time global prayer network.

Pastor Ted has been interviewed by Barbara Walters, Tom Brokaw, Bill O’Reilly, Chris Matthews, and more. Time included Pastor Ted in their list of the 25 Most Influential Evangelicals in America. Harper’s says, “No pastor in America holds more sway over the political direction of evangelicalism than does Pastor Ted.”

He graduated from Oral Roberts University in 1978 and has received two honorary Doctor of Divinity degrees. He served as the American Vice-President for World Missions for Jesus, a German missions organization, and served as an Associate Pastor at Bethany World Prayer Center in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, which helped him plant New Life Church in 1985. Haggard and his wife, Gayle, have five children.

http://www.tedhaggard.com/

Pastor Ted has recently been interviewed by Barbara Walters, Tom Brokaw, Bill O’Reilly, and Chris Matthews. Time Magazine has included Pastor Ted in their list of the 25 Most Influential Evangelicals in America. The Wall Street Journal noted his advisory role with the Bush White House, calling him one “of the nation’s most politically influential” clergy, and Harper’s Magazine says, “No pastor in America holds more sway over the political direction of evangelicalism than does Pastor Ted.”

http://www.randomhouse.com/author/results.pperl?authorid=59743&view=full_sptlght

posted by blogflogger on November 3, 2006 at 6:16 PM | link to this | reply

This guy speaks out against gays and gay marriages and then has a long,

ongoing affair with a male prostitute. The original claim was that this was just some whacko trying to slander him, and then the guy produced email and voicemail from him. It's people like this that give Christianity a bad name. No one in their right mind would say that every anti-gay person harbors secret desires for gay sex, but it seems that fear and self-loathing are great motivators. They seem to make people want to speak out against the very things they desire but wish they didn't. I don't really understand it myself, but what I don't understand the most is that a great many people who have a strong opinion to the left or right will in one post cite many things they've heard from the media, then when something they don't believe is being told on the news, say the media blows everything out of proportion, and that they need more facts. Where exactly would the more facts come from, short of interviewing the guy personally? Everything should be taken with a grain of salt. He's not your pastor (or whatever an Evangelical clergyman is called, forgive my ignorance of your religion) so I don't see how it could negatively reflect on you....it's just another example of how money and power seem to corrupt even the most seemingly righteous of men.

posted by Schatz on November 3, 2006 at 6:00 PM | link to this | reply

45,000 churches

Wow, that's a lot of churches.....I must be a recluse?

posted by Corbin_Dallas on November 3, 2006 at 5:01 PM | link to this | reply

I had never heard of him either but if you are going to criticise

people in politics he should be added to your list. He's a very strong opponet to gay marriage and leader of something like 45,000 churches. Kerry said the wrong thing. This guy DID the wrong thing. That's certainly worth more than a brush off.

And good news, he bought the meth but he threw it away. Cuz that's what people do. I think the, "I didn't inhale," excuse has been used already.

You know my thoughts. Both are as crooked as they come but guess what the people who replace them will be like.

posted by SuccessWarrior on November 3, 2006 at 4:59 PM | link to this | reply

CD

I never heard of him before until today either. Oh and he is supposed to be close to the "White House"...well I wonder if the WH knows that? Amazing the association people try to draw to each other. Quite frankly, I think I will reserve forming any conclusion until all the facts are out. Plus like you, I never heard of him before so as for me and mine, it matters not...Now I will bet ya that if there is a way to put him close to that mean old Jesus the left will try ya know....

posted by Offy on November 3, 2006 at 4:54 PM | link to this | reply