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Justi
I am surprised you would admit to being unarmed in such a situation, but I am glad to see that you are honest about it and will not try to make a fool of yourself in such a futile attempt.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 2, 2006 at 2:40 PM
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kooka
I am not engaging in a verbal war with you it would be like dueling with a mentally unarmed person.
posted by
Justi
on October 27, 2006 at 9:38 AM
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Justi
Boo-who on your life. My grandmother has lost two children herself and would never try to use their deaths in such a manner. The point was not that the idea of getting such a call was good or bad, but to make the claim that such a call is likely to happen is 100% pure ignorance. As I just explained to Corbin, it is safer for a woman to have an abortion in the first trimester than to give birth. If you are worried about your 13 year old's life, then you should be more worried that she will die giving birth.
posted by
kooka_lives
on October 26, 2006 at 8:12 PM
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Corbin
I never once went off topic. You showed ignorance in the post itself by making the stupid opening line that is never going to happen. It is actually safer for a 13 year old to have an abortion in the first trimester than to carry a child full term. Women are more likely to die giving birth than having a an abortion. That is the simple facts. While I do not agree with abortions, that does not mean I am going to ignore the truth. I am lost as to why you seem to want to openly embrace your ignorance in such a manner.
posted by
kooka_lives
on October 26, 2006 at 8:08 PM
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SlyCy
Care to expound on what is unbelievable?
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on October 26, 2006 at 7:19 AM
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This is unbelievable!!!!!
posted by
SlyCy
on October 26, 2006 at 6:53 AM
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California has a Proposition on the Balot regarding this issue......
It is Proposition 85
Should the California Constitution be amended to require notification of the parent or legal guardian of an unemancipated pregnant minor at least 48 hours before performing an abortion?
Amends California Constitution prohibiting abortion for unemancipated minor until 48 hours after physician notifies minor's parent/guardian, except in medical emergency or with parental waiver. Mandates reporting requirements. Authorizes monetary damages against physicians for violation.
Put on the Ballot by Petition Signatures
Potential unknown net state costs of several million dollars annually for health and social services programs, court administration, and state helath agency administration combined.
- A YES vote on this measure means:
- The State Constitution would be changed to require that a physician notify, with certain exceptions, a parent or legal guardian of a pregnant minor at least 48 hours before performing an abortion.
- A NO vote on this measure means:
- Minors would continue to receive abortion services to the same extent as adults. Physicians performing abortions for minors would not be subject to notification requirements.
Here are the exceptions................
Exceptions to Notification Requirements
The measure provides the following exceptions to the notification requirements:
Medical Emergencies. The notification requirements would not apply if the physician certifies in the minor’s medical record that the abortion is necessary to prevent the mother’s death or that a delay would “create serious risk of substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function.”
Waivers Approved by Parent or Guardian. A minor’s parent or guardian could waive the notification requirements and the waiting period by completing and signing a written waiver form for the physician. The parent or guardian must specify on this form that the waiver would be valid either (1) for 30 days, (2) until a specified date, or (3) until the minor’s 18th birthday. The form would need to be notarized unless the parent or guardian delivered it personally to the physician.
Waivers Approved by Courts.
The pregnant minor could ask a juvenile court to waive the notification requirements. A court could do so if it finds that the minor is sufficiently mature and well-informed to decide whether to have an abortion or that notification would not be in the minor’s best interest. If the waiver request is denied, the minor could appeal that decision to an appellate court.
A minor seeking a waiver would not have to pay court fees, would be appointed a temporary guardian and provided other assistance in the case by the court, and would be entitled to an attorney appointed by the court. The identity of the minor would be kept confidential. The court would generally have to hear and issue a ruling within three business days of receiving the waiver request. The appellate court would generally have to hear and decide any appeal within four business days.
The proposition also requires that, in any case in which the court finds evidence of physical, sexual, or emotional abuse, the court must refer the evidence to the county child protection agency.
Link
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on October 26, 2006 at 6:17 AM
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ariel70
He's still licking his wounds from some comments I made on one if his blogs. It seems to be a pattern for him to go completely off topic......perhaps an attention deficit issue?
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on October 26, 2006 at 6:07 AM
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kooka
Check your medication......I haven't commented on the post....i just asked a question or two to hear others thoughts.......but thanks for the click.
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on October 26, 2006 at 6:05 AM
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Corbin Dallas
First I want to say this is an emotional subject. I thought all of you had a point except Kooka and he may have had but I could not get past the insulting opening "What an ignorant post" that just let me know he could not be trusted to be reasonable and civil.
I just want to ask you all which of you has had the call that says your child is dead? I have had that call twice. I only had three children and the call came for two of them. Talk all you want but you don't know what you are talking about until you get the call!
posted by
Justi
on October 25, 2006 at 11:22 PM
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Schatz
That was well said.
posted by
kooka_lives
on October 25, 2006 at 5:25 PM
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I had to say a few more things...Although I do agree with some of Kooka's points, the delivery was definitely lacking finesse.
What I don't understand, here, is why Ariel70, you fixated in your response about Christian-bashing on Kooka's part. I see the word Christian once, and furthermore I see several examples of where that blogger's comments directly relate back to Corbin_Dallas' post. For example, the closing line of the comment says
Fix [the problems that have caused these girls to be looking for abortions at thirteen] and abortion will become a rare occurrence.
The comment does mention "fundamental, right-wing thinking"....so are you saying that only Christians engage in this kind of thought?? I don't believe that by a long shot.
I do believe that until we all start acting like:
a) adults
b) we're on the same team
and c) like actual human beings matter more than ideas or averages do,
none of the things we quibble about will get better.
No, I wouldn't want one of my daughters to have an abortion at thirteen without my support. I can narrow it down to this: I don't ever want one of my daughters to be faced with a surgical procedure to remove a problem like an unwanted life. I hope for them all the love and intimacy a marriage can hold for years before a baby enters the picture. I also wouldn't want to see them mired down as young women by a baby they didn't want to raise. I also wouldn't want to see them become crack addicts, prostitutes, drug dealers, hired assassins or dental hygienists (this is a JOKE, dental hygienists, please don't unite against me). The point here is I'll guide them through life to help them make good choices. Who is guiding these girls to get abortions at thirteen? Where is the loving, supportive parent who will (theoretically) be shocked by this phone call, when the girl is getting knocked up? Do any of you actually know what it takes to get yourself onto that table? This isn't EVER something that is an 'easy way out'. Everyone I've ever know to have had an abortion is still scarred. Still SHATTERED. Still has nightmares. Still wonders what would have happened if I hadn't been able to go through with it.....please, wake up and see that it's not some quick fix. Abortion is the action of a desperate woman or girl. I am one of the lucky ones who managed to make a clean break from the man who surely would have abused our daughter. He has never seen her. He offered me abortion money, but I so couldn't make myself do it. So I went alone and pretty much penniless out into the world. It's not what most people make it out to be, this whole issue.
This is all by the wayside when you ask me if 'she' has the right to chose about her reproductive rights. My answer, unequivocally, will be yes. All circumstances aside, thirteen or thirty, with or without her parent's knowledge or consent, no one should ever be forced to carry a pregnancy to term. It is our basic right as women to choose.
Just the same as her mother had the right to bear her, and then apparently, leave her out in the cold in the way of guidance. I don't know many well rounded, well cared for, well educated thirteen year olds who get pregnant. 
Okay, I'm done with this soapbox. Anyone else have anything to say?
posted by
Schatz
on October 25, 2006 at 5:10 PM
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also ariel
I did some quick research myself and found nothing to suggest that Britain has a higher rate of abortions than the U.S.
I found this
articel, which seems to say otherwise. Although I did find a few that said abortion rate in the UK were on the rise, but that is not the same thing as being higher than the U.S. rates.
posted by
kooka_lives
on October 25, 2006 at 4:59 PM
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ariel70
I have no problem with you putting you 2 cents worth in. I never have and never will put someone down for doing that. As you said, this is a free forum
Corbin opened up with a basic fear tactic that has no merit as being part of the actual debate about abortion. Sorry, but no one is going to get a call telling them their child died because they had an abortion, it just does not happen like that. It shows ignorance to open any post with a statement that is purely devoid of facts.
Second, I did address that issue, but I guess since I did not actually mention the age thing you did not understand what I was saying. There would be no such problem if our society actually looked at the cause instead of the affect. The age itself is not the real issue, just another distraction being used to screw up the facts.
Third, my comment about Christian parents beating their daughters is 100% not absurd, since I personally know of two girls who went through such things with their fundamentalist father. One of which had a miscarriage due to it all. Beyond that if you do the research you will find it is no where near as uncommon as some would like you to believe. Those girl most likely would have been safer getting an abortion that their fathers had no knowledge of. I know of not a single atheist family where this has happened in. In fact all of the disowning of a child because of an unplanned pregnancy has also been in Christian families, not atheists as far as my experience shows.
The simple fact is that the age issue is not the real issue. If a girl has a good relationship with her parents then she is going to tell them. is she does, then she will not. Chances are if she feels she needs an abortion and feels her partners can not know and is not allowed to get one with out permission, then she has a few choices, none of them good. back ally abortions where she is more likely to die or suicide. Personally, I would rather my child have an abortion I did not know about rather than her dying. But that is just me.
Abortion is the affect, not the cause. The age issue is not the real issue. It is that simple.
posted by
kooka_lives
on October 25, 2006 at 4:49 PM
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Corbin
I couldn't even imagine such a call...how very sad! A child...unbelieveable!
posted by
Offy
on October 25, 2006 at 4:46 PM
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Corbin_Dallas
good to born child born hush hush ..
posted by
Rosetree
on October 25, 2006 at 4:27 PM
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Kooka
You may think that it's none of my business, but this is a free forum where all may add their views. I find your comment on this post not only arrogant, domineering and grossly discourteous, but so wide of the mark as almost to have been written about another post.
You go blaring off about the rights and wrongs of abortion, when the whole point of the post was ; is it right, or not that parents should not be notified of their daughters' applying for abortion. You made no attemtp whatsoever to address this question, but istean got on you usual hobbyhorse about the evils of fundamentalist Christianity.
I have no great knowledge of this form of Christianity in America, but I can tell you that the abortion rate among young females if higher in Britain than in America.
You are apparently completely unaware that there is no significant element of Christian fundamentalim in Britain, so how do you account for this discrepancy?
Your comments about such Christians beating their daughters are absolutely absurd, and serve no other purpose than the propgation of your own views on Chritianity.
Of course some of them beat their daughters ; so do atheists and adherents of all other religions ; especially Muslims.
What a biased, irrelevant and contemptuous comment. You should be ashamed of sending such comments.
And by the way, I'm an atheist, not a Christian
posted by
ariel70
on October 25, 2006 at 9:06 AM
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What an ignorant post
About one out of 100,000 women die from an abortion. Sounds like about the same rate as those who give birth. So you open with 100% pure ignorance and followed up with nothing of any real significant.
While I do not agree with abortion as a form of birth control, it is needed due to the basic attitude that parents and society as a whole need not be responsible. By not teaching kids actual facts about sex, followed by building up their self-esteem and confidence backed up with full knowledge of parental support, you have kids whoa re irresponsible and have piss poor family life. The abstinence programs DO NOT WORK, they do not teach the kids the facts and actually seem to cause more unprotected teenage sex. Those programs treat the kids like idiots . Religious based sex education also has been proven to not work.
You would rather see a 13 year old give birth, be disowned by her parents, possibly beaten (I know of good old Christian families where the young girl got beat near to death because she got pregnant, so don't try to tell me this does not happen) and basically all around cause stress and most likely give the child a miserable life where they feel worthless and will be on drugs and commit suicide at a young age, if their mother has not beaten them to it.
Just trying to stop abortion from happening solves nothing at all. It is not looking at the bigger problem, but is instead trying to pretend abortion is the cause, not the affect. Seriously, fundamental, right-wing thinking is the cause. Fix that problem and abortion will become a rare occurrence.
posted by
kooka_lives
on October 25, 2006 at 8:51 AM
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Corbin,
I'd be devastated, as would be most of us here. My position is that, as a rule. parents should be informed prior to abortion, but there may well be special circumstances where that would not apply.
The real problem is that in many jurisdictions abortion has come to be treated as just another form of birth control...
posted by
Nautikos
on October 25, 2006 at 4:05 AM
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Hard to fathom the devastation I would feel.
Boggles the mind. But as (Schatz???) an earlier blogger observed, I see her point too. If she had been required to notify her parent -- who was perhaps molesting her -- that too is very problematic.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on October 24, 2006 at 4:37 PM
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You can't get a tattoo without parental consent but you can have surgery?
posted by
SuccessWarrior
on October 24, 2006 at 10:22 AM
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Corbin
How horrible that phone call would be for any parent! Something similar happened to me many years ago .. I received a call telling me that I needed to bring my 12 year old to the clinic because the results of her pregnancy test were alarming. It was on April Fools Day but at the moment it didn't register and I cried until she came home from school and then I realized what a fool I'd been.
posted by
BrightIrish
on October 24, 2006 at 9:41 AM
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Corbin, I don't have kids, but if they had called my parents when I was
that age with such news, the devastation would be unsurmountable!
posted by
Ariala
on October 24, 2006 at 9:03 AM
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my daughters are close with me to tell me when they are ready
my 18 year old came to me last year and now she is on the pill. communication with your children is the key.
posted by
ladychardonnay
on October 24, 2006 at 7:45 AM
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I think I should know my thirteen year old just a teensy bit better
than THAT. Seriously. How could you not know that a kid that age is sexually active. Hmmm, oh yeah, you don't talk to them at ALL. Right. Gods willing and with the right guidance from me, my daughters will still be worried about who they want to kiss at thirteen, but if they aren't, and I am oblivious to their struggles, I will have had a lobotomy by then.
That said, if we all raised our kids better, those abortion services will stop being called upon by thirteen year olds. And then, maybe by everyone. People who are desperate do desperate things that have tragic consequences. That is the long and the short of humanity. Society needs to do a better job of supporting each individual.
So where does the change begin, Corbin_Dallas? That is my question for you. Your blog seems to indicate that you feel that the problem could be on it's way to a solution if those girls couldn't access the service. I believe that then many of them would commit suicide. I would have, had I ended up pregnant at thirteen. Seriously. My dad would have owned me then, and I doubt that with the maturity of a drug addled thirteen year old brain I would have been able to face that. I would have chosen to be dead. If I had been able to go to my parents in the first place, I wouldn't have been on drugs and sexually active at that age.
I'm not splitting hairs, nor attacking you. This type of life has been my reality and I am blessed magnificently now with peace. I am genuinely asking you...what is your idea of a solution to it? Instead of blaming the system for being too liberal, I blame Americans for being too selfish to do something to help others. I don't guess that most people have come up without any hard times, but some people are living in a way that most of us couldn't IMAGINE. And yet we quibble over laws and taxes. We are distracted, and that's how 'they' want us to be.
Peace, Corbin_Dallas, the sky is bruised today and election time grows nearer. People have to wake up and vote, no matter what they vote for. We all have to get active to make it better. You believe more limitations, I believe less, but we both believe that there is a problem, yes?
posted by
Schatz
on October 24, 2006 at 7:42 AM
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first i would vomit - they are out of their minds!!
posted by
ladychardonnay
on October 24, 2006 at 7:22 AM
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