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Denouncing? Hardly
Dear J.:
I'm sorry you took my challenge to pro-lifers and pro-choicers everywhere to find points of consensus and step up to deal with the consequences of unwanted pregnancies carried to term.
A challenge is a far different animal from a denunciation, at least in my dictionary.
I apologize for any pain I have caused you with my inexact writing style. I shall trouble you with it no more.
Yer buddy,
Mark
PS - The overwhelming majority of Foster and Foster-to-Adopt parents are decent, loving people. It's only the bad ones who make the news (for which I must blame my own chosen profession, but hey, the headline "Foster Parents Love and Cherish Child, Rear Gently and Do Not Abuse" wouldn't sell many newspapers, would it?
Your take on unworthy Foster Parents reminds me of what some people think when they read about an airliner crash ... "Oh my God! All those people died all at once! Airline travel must be unsafe!"
If you access the appropriate statistics at the National Transportation Safety Board Web site, you will discover airline travel is, in terms of deaths and injuries per 100,000 travelers, far safer than driving to the corner store for a quart of milk.
But again, pardon my attempts to seek points of consensus and issue challenges to the loving parents of the world. One of these days, I've really got to learn to express myself clearly. Maybe when I get to High School ...
posted by
Rarmcwa
on September 23, 2006 at 6:44 AM
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Justi
I was addressing Rarmcwa....I know you stances on most issues by now.........Rarmcwa is a Libertarian and I do understand his position on being "Pro-choice".....I felt the direction of the post wasn't necessarily a choice vs. life issue....That this woman was an adult and being forced to do something against he "choice".
Rarmcwa is going to be a very good contributor here on Blogit....he's got a unique style.....
I know I won't be agreeing with all of his positions or statements, but he and I are pretty much in line on most things. If the Libertarian Party in this country were a viable one....I'd be inclined to participate....but politics in America being what it is........you can't influence the direction of the country without the power to do it. So I'll stick with being a Republican and begrudgingly hold my nose on a few issues........
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on September 23, 2006 at 4:42 AM
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Corbin
I am not pro choice this person has these long comments and has been denouncing all the pro lifers for not adopting on and on and I have pointed out some of the fallacies of our adoption system. In my opinion when you are pregnant ideally you keep it and raise it. If that is not feasible then give it up for adoption. Do not abort! I do think others should help, teach, help support all sorts of things. I am against abortion.
posted by
Justi
on September 22, 2006 at 5:32 PM
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I am curious.......
it seems to me that the comments you are making have nothing to do with that actual point of the post.....Though it is about an incident revolving around abortion....is it in itself about abortion or this womans "choice" to have the baby. She is being forced against her will to abide by her parents wishes.......my question to you as a promoter of choice is are you distinguishing between types of choice?
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on September 22, 2006 at 4:55 PM
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Rarmc
The objection I have is America makes it so difficult to adopt that people are going all over the world to adopt. You almost have to walk on water here to adopt. Yet to be a foster parent it is often an unworthy subject that is able to get the children. We need the adoption laws changed in America.
posted by
Justi
on September 22, 2006 at 11:22 AM
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PS - I seek not to change thy mind, my friend
... only to engage in constructive debate.
The thing about constructive debate, as opposed to some of the hyper-virulent venting we see on so many blog sites (not on your blog, but on plenty of others, heaven help us all ... ) is that the constructive debaters seeks not to change minds, but to identify points of mutual consensus. Here are some of ours:
We agree: every baby should be loved, cherished, protected.
We agree: abortion is a terrible, life-changing experience, one which no woman in her right mind would choose to undergo if there were other options on the table
We disagree: that the abortion option being taken off the table by force of law would improve the lot of babies in general.
That's cool. So let's all get out there and Foster Parent and adopt unwanted babies! That way, both sides win. And babies win most of all ...
I challenge you and all my pro-life friends to do the right thing, the thing we can all agree upon as ethically correct, loving and productive.
posted by
Rarmcwa
on September 22, 2006 at 7:41 AM
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I have now seen your comment (it was unavailable yesterday)
Except that what I said about saving babies was that it was on the short list of things for me to do on Earth, not that I had better things to do. There's a huge difference.
Let me be specific: My mother was on the Planned Parenthood Board of Covington Kentucky when I was young. Two of her best pals on the board were Father Brown and Father Finn, one a smart young priest, the other a smart old priest. They frequently failed to see eye to eye, but agreed on one thing always. They agreed that every baby born should be cherished and cared for.
The reason my mother and I are pro-choicers is, at least in part, because we know what happens to babies who are born to mothers who never wanted them. One story that sticks in my mind was the one Mom told about a baby discovered by Child Protective Services with its lips pinned shut with a safety pin. Its mother just wanted it to quit crying, and figured that would do the trick ...
Until and unless pro-lifers commit to caring for all the unwanted babies born each year to women who didn't want them but chose not to abort, pro-lifers will lack the moral authority to force any woman to bear an unwanted child.
Happily, my own pro-life friends have adopted and foster parented unwanted children, and my wife and I are currently enrolled in Foster-To-Adopt classes. We will soon be engaged in saving the life of a real, live, post-birth baby. Could you persuade some of your pro-life friends to do the same?
Just asking.
posted by
Rarmcwa
on September 22, 2006 at 7:34 AM
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Rarmcwa
I don't think there is much I can say except thank you for commenting. You did not leave anything open to other than your opinion. It has merit. You and I differ about life. I believe that pro choice is not pro abortion; however, I can not be pro abortion in any form. Your last comment said you had much more to do while on this earth than think of saving babies.
I don't know anything more important than saving lives, spirits, and quality of life whatever age be it one minute or 100 years.
I don't know how to reply to your comment except to say we don't see eye to eye; however, I feel that is life and you and I each have total rights to our beliefs. Thank you for commenting.
posted by
Justi
on September 20, 2006 at 9:56 AM
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Justi, could you respond to my comments?
Thanks in advance.
Saving babies is on my short list of things to try to do while I'm here on earth, but the process is, in my humble opinion, not a matter best left to statuatory authorities.
From what I've seen of governments, they're a lot more concerned with preserving public safety than anything else ... which brings us back to the Judge and the Pregnant Felon.
posted by
Rarmcwa
on September 20, 2006 at 9:47 AM
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What too few pro-lifers grasp is ...
that if we take the choice of whether or not to abort an unwanted pregnancy out of the hands of the woman in whose womb it exists - and place it in the hands of government at any level - we're leaving open a gaping invitation for the state to start mandating abortions.
You think government would never mandate abortions for any woman? Guess again. My lawyer wife works as defense counsel in the Virginia Juvenile and Domestic Relations Court, and a helluva lot of judges, given the opportunity would behave thus:
A pregnant woman, convicted of (fill in the blank; solicitation, malicious wounding, child abuse, armed robbery, murder, dealing crack, etc.) shows up in front of a judge who's already been forced by the law - and common sense - to terminate her parental rights on her first four kids. She's knocked up again, by one or more of her six boyfriends, two of whom have previously sexually abused her first four kids.
The judge, a humanitarian with no pro-life or pro-choice bias, looks at this poor woman, and says:
A. "I sentence you to 12 years of confinement."
B. "I sentence you to either serve 12 years in confinement or, if you choose, to get an abortion and serve six months plus 11.5 years of probation and 2,000 hours of community service."
If pro-lifers are really dedicated to saving babies (or, as we in the community of rational and loving pro-choicers refer to them, "blastocysts," "endocysts" or "fetuses"), then run, do not walk, to the polls and vote for the biggest pro-choicer on the ballot. Otherwise, the state gets to make decisions properly left to pregnant women, the judgement of which is properly left to God.
posted by
Rarmcwa
on September 19, 2006 at 12:41 PM
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Justi
I read about this with my mouth agape. It is truly a mad world.
posted by
avant-garde
on September 19, 2006 at 3:36 AM
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Justi
I guess these people are just plain murderers. First they want to kill their g/child and then their daughter? Sounds like their off their rocker. What's wrong with people these days?
posted by
Offy
on September 19, 2006 at 1:51 AM
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God help us indeed
posted by
Tanga
on September 18, 2006 at 10:05 PM
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Nautikos
Is that not the truth. I can't fathom people's selfishness. Thanks for your comment.
posted by
Justi
on September 18, 2006 at 4:42 PM
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Justi,
I have only one word: evil!
posted by
Nautikos
on September 18, 2006 at 4:24 PM
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