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It's a very sad day
When the extremists call for the head of the Pope. He already apologized for clarification and they still won't accept it. That said I don't think anyone could appease the murderers. Hatred is all they know....very sad indeed!
posted by
Offy
on September 19, 2006 at 1:44 AM
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I think this is all way out of control.
Not only is it just plain sad, but it escalating into more hatred than we ever imagined. No one, not even the Pope, can speak freely without someone, some group, organization, religion, or race getting all huffy. Everything has to be so friggin' PC these days cause God forbid anyone gets upset. IMO, the most extremists seem to be the most hypocritical of them all. Great post.
posted by
SpitFire70
on September 19, 2006 at 1:09 AM
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Odysseus - you will not get an argument from me on that point
There is no denying that it is true but there is another factor that makes all talk of maintaining the moral high ground naieve. This enemy cannot be defeated by traditional military means and they will use anything and everything at their disposal without regard for such luxuries as moral conduct. As it stands now, what we consider our most important values in the rights of individuals, have proven to be some of our worst vulnerabilities. These realities will inevitably mean that we are forced to consider what would normally be unthinkable from our perspective but make no mistake, I find my own words unpalatable. This however is what we are forced to do, or live with the alternative, which is even more unpalatable.
posted by
gomedome
on September 18, 2006 at 5:03 PM
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Gome…..you really can’t mean that you want us to do a preemptive nuclear
strike……also, you said, “we are hampered by our own decency”….Gome, if we do that we sink to their level. Our decency is then lost. Do you see what I mean?
posted by
telemachus
on September 18, 2006 at 2:35 PM
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Gome, you're right that we should be looking for alternatives
or we could quit pretending like our involvement over there isn't about oil and just take it over.
posted by
SuccessWarrior
on September 18, 2006 at 2:21 PM
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faholo, that's true, it is god's fault.
Not in creating humans but in giving them all different orders. He should have been more consistant but maybe this is more entertaining for him to watch then humans getting along and working toward a common good.
posted by
SuccessWarrior
on September 18, 2006 at 2:19 PM
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SuccessWarrior - then another reality looms to quash this thinking
In just how much our western sensibilities can stomach and what a realistic plan that could be sold would entail. We are more likely to succeed in rewriting the parameters of our own oil based economies in developing alternate fuels with a never before seen effort. We have to accept the fact that the world is facing a major economic shift. Relying on oil from the world's most troubled regions to run our economies will eventually become untenable. ... and I will be the first to throw my empty Castrol Oil cans at those simpering fools.
posted by
gomedome
on September 18, 2006 at 1:16 PM
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Heh, why not just blame God for all of it!
If God had not created humans, there would not be violence, war, hatred and anger. We keep saying the Muslims, the Christians, as though all Muslims are evil and all Christians are good. There are crazy, hurt, angry, misguided and down right stupid people in each group! Keep sharing!
faholo
posted by
faholo
on September 18, 2006 at 1:15 PM
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Troosha, a lot of what's being done if for the love of god and
to gain a place in heaven. What we need to do is get rid of the idea of god and what it takes to get to heaven.
posted by
SuccessWarrior
on September 18, 2006 at 12:55 PM
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Gome, that's how I feel
We can see the writing on the wall. The sooner we act, the sooner we put an end to all of this. They will keep on pushing and pushing until they find the limits. We might as well draw the line now instead of waiting until they blow up something or kill someone that people in power care about.
posted by
SuccessWarrior
on September 18, 2006 at 12:54 PM
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TV, I think that's exactly what's going to happen
Extremist muslim groups are going to keep pushing until someone responds. They want a war. They will eventually get one.
posted by
SuccessWarrior
on September 18, 2006 at 12:52 PM
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Isn’t censorship, a deluded sense of self importance, acts of violence in “the name of MY God”, and complete disregard for the rights of others the fundamental reason for the chaos in the world today? Take a deep breath everyone – for the love of (your) God!
posted by
Troosha
on September 18, 2006 at 11:08 AM
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SuccessWarrior - that's the reality
We will inevitably have our hand forced by a very small extreme element. Religious belief is their motivation, ours is our survival and the preservation of our way of life. At present, we are the decided underdogs. Our side is divided along religious and political lines, our freedoms allow us to bicker amongst ourselves. We have a a full disclosure policy fueled by our appetites to watch this war on the news while they orchestrate a propaganda campaign via the internet to closed societies. We are hampered by our own decency, our penchant to think that others want the freedoms we have and that others value the same things we value, when it is demonstrated for us time and time again that they want none of these things. They don't want democracy, they want to impose their religious will on the rest of the world. They have never lived peacefully with their neighbors throughout their entire history, they are incapable of peace. They have no desire for peace, they certainly will never accept any form of peaceful coexistence with others. With all of these realities staring us straight in the face; we still hear people saying things like "we must stick to the Geneva convention, we cannot use racial profiling, we must take the moral high ground, or we cannot sink to the level of our enemy".....I say bullshit to all of that. Nuke the bastards before they nuke us.
posted by
gomedome
on September 18, 2006 at 10:52 AM
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My biggest fear
is that if they do strike the Vatican it will finally bring the World War the radicals want so badly. You piss off the Catholics by killing their pope and I think we will have a return of the Crusades. At that point it will be all out war until one side or possibly everyone is destroyed.
posted by
TVBlogger
on September 18, 2006 at 10:48 AM
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Gome, why must we always choose from the lesser of two evils?
In the war that comes, do I hope that the Christians win and the Muslims lose. If it means that it will be safer for me to fly and blog what I want, yes.
It reminds me of the movie Demolition Man where the leader gets a crazy psychopathic killer out of jail and tells him to go kill the enemy. In the end, you are left with a crazy psychopathic killer that you have given power to. That can't end well.
posted by
SuccessWarrior
on September 18, 2006 at 10:34 AM
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SuccessWarrior - those are my sentiments as well
We can take some consolation that our religious crazies are less extreme than their religious crazies but what kind of choice is that?
posted by
gomedome
on September 18, 2006 at 10:28 AM
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Sannhet, I know that it's not all Muslims
but that doesn't make it anymore right to threaten to kill everyone on the planet who isn't.
As far as Christians go, I pointed it out on someone else's blog. They have definitely had their day in the sun as far as killing goes and they may again. Remember, Hitler was a catholic called by god to finish Jesus's work on earth.
That still doesn't make it right for one group of people to tell the rest of the world what they are allowed to say or draw.
This is why I can't wait until everyone is as tired of religions as I am and they cease to exist. Probably won't happen in my lifetime but I can always hope for a better future for my son.
posted by
SuccessWarrior
on September 18, 2006 at 10:22 AM
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Odysseus, if people don't speak up, they win
posted by
SuccessWarrior
on September 18, 2006 at 10:13 AM
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Success -
Remember that not all of Mohammed's followers are violent extremists - and that there are Christian extremists who kill too.
posted by
sannhet
on September 18, 2006 at 9:13 AM
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Yes, but he needs to speak his mind,
regardless of what his advisors say. We all need to! People need to put the Muslims on the spot and bring them to task on this. If they are going to purport to be practicing a nonviolent religion than some explanation is in order or, at the very least, an admonishment should be issued by the Muslims towards the ones doing the violence. On the contrary, the violence seems to be tolerated and even seemingly encouraged by the leaders.
posted by
telemachus
on September 18, 2006 at 8:57 AM
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Odysseus, it just seems common sense
but all the articles focus on the pope like he did something wrong just because killers say he did. The death of the nun and her bodyguard and the firebombings (if they are mentioned) are in the last two paragraphs like, "And, oh yeah, the muslims are being violent again."
If I were the pope, I would be condemning the actions of the muslims right now. I would say that I was sorry about my words and that I don't really know Muhammend but his current followers are evil and inhuman. If that's a reflection on good ole Mo, then so be it.
You know he's thinking it but his advisors are telling him to keep quiet.
posted by
SuccessWarrior
on September 18, 2006 at 8:32 AM
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My sentiments.......
as well.
posted by
telemachus
on September 18, 2006 at 8:24 AM
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