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so al Qaida and the Taliban regime is a myth?
it must be if Islamofacism is a myth.
posted by
calmcantey75
on September 22, 2006 at 5:08 AM
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Rarmcwa, all people in the world are cut from the same cloth.
you are correct -- doesn't matter the religion
doesn't matter where in the world
what is common to one faction is common to all
posted by
Xeno-x
on September 16, 2006 at 8:30 AM
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Here's the deal with religious fanatics
A nut is a nut, no matter what color coat he wears, or whose God he pretents to revere.
Somehow though, President Jimmy Carter's admission that before he makes any important decision he prays on it fails to alarm many people.
I did not vote for either Carter or Bush, but a nut is a nut.
Sadly, some folks only recognize a nut based on the color of coat he wears, Red or Blue ...
posted by
Rarmcwa
on September 15, 2006 at 4:30 PM
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thank you for your skewed history of palestine, Hugh_Manatee
seems you know a hell of a lot more than all the scholars put together
where did you get your superior knowledge of the history of palestine?
can you refer me to a work of some sort that outlines this history you have given me?
posted by
Xeno-x
on September 15, 2006 at 7:55 AM
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Xeno...
Do you understand that in your continued postings where you list America's history of supporting oppressive regimes you only reinforce the reasons why no American should care whether or not the rest of the world "likes" them?
You focus on the negative history while completely disregarding the overwhelming goodness that the American people have bestowed upon the world in the way of disaster relief, freedom, democracy, and properity. Then you expect that I'll sympathize with the folks that hate us? Please, your expectations should make absolutely no sense to anyone at all.
I refer you once again to the most recent example of America's "damned if we do and damned if we don't" position in the world where Indonesians still regard the US as their mortal enemy despite receiving more aid from the United States than from the rest of the world combined!
Why should I care if we're supporting despots when our benevolence is met with same amount of hatred?
And could you name a current despot the US now supports? I'm just interested in knowing if the global hatred we encounter is based on history or current trends.
As for the Palestinian problem, I don't have to read your posts to know the story. I've read enough to know that Arabs initially displaced Canaanites through force and intermarriage. The Canaanites then became known by the Arab word filista (sp?) which morphed into the current Palestinian. Meanwhile, Jews bought large parcels of land from the occupying Arabs, which they're now expected to return to the Palestinians? And everyone knows that the governments of Syria and Jordan (which occupy the overwhelming majority of the original Palestinian homeland) take great delight in watching terrorist organizations attack Israel because they know the truth about the geographic borders of their nations.
HM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on September 14, 2006 at 8:52 AM
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Hugh_Manatee
why should the U.S. or any American worry about how the rest of the world views the U.S.? -- maybe because we aren't the only fish in the sea. This is a world of great variety. If we act the bully and attempt to coerce the rest of the world to our thinking, then we face the possibility of increasing opposition.
That aside, I really didn't explain fully the role of the U.S. in world affairs.
- The U.S. helped depose a duly elected president in Iran and helped install the shah, the CIA training his goon squads in the fine art of torture to help him control the population. Of course they hate us.
- The U.S. helped overthrow a duly elected president in Chile and helped a brutal dictator take control there.
- Daniel Ortega, et. al came to power in Nicaragua after overthrowing a repressive regime backed by the U.S.
- The U.S. backed a regime in El Salvador whose police tortured and killed many innocents, including 4 nuns (victims of gross atrocities before they died), etc.
This is part of the list.
'
Do we want to go into the Philippines, where the U.S. repressive control spawned continual resistance?
And then we return to Palestine. In THE ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN CONFLICT I newly posted a reference to the source of bitterness between Arab and Israeli, where Zionist settlers displaced many Palestinians. You have to read it to get the details.
posted by
Xeno-x
on September 14, 2006 at 8:26 AM
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Xeno...
Why should I worry about what the rest of the world thinks of the United States? After all, you're surprised that more people don't hate us than already do, so why should I worry when so many already hate us?
Sheesh, when I think of the foreign aid that we've paid for over the past 50 years to help nations in need, it just makes me sad. We provided more aid to Indonesia after the tsunami than all other nations combined and (according to recent surveys) better than 70% of the Indonesian people still think the US is their mortal enemy.
Like it really matters whether or not the US leads the world in providing beans or bullets to nations in need?
When I think of Nicaragua I think of free elections gained through American opposition to Daniel Ortega.
When I think of El Salvador, I think of a vibrant free market economy thriving because Americans opposed the impoverished control of a communist regime.
Look, sometimes the US gets into bed with despicable worms. That's world politics. And I challenge you to name one nation other than the US that has spread more freedom (across Europe, Asia, and Central America) over the past 60 years.
After that, you can compare the repugnant living standards of the North Koreans to the comfortable life style currently enjoyed by the average South Korean. Then tell me how the US should have never supported Syngman Rhee in South Korea. The results speak for themself.
HM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on September 13, 2006 at 3:13 PM
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back to the Shah
the U.S. installed him to power after deposing a duly elected president.
posted by
Xeno-x
on September 13, 2006 at 2:56 PM
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hugh manatee
we should not support any despot -- that's the issue
read my blog on the israeli-palestinian conflict -- the references there have informed me.
and there have been a few besides the shah of iran -- think El Salvador, Nicaragua, Chile.
think overthrowing duly elected governments and training goon squads in the fine art of physical persuasion -- particularly in Iran.
wouldn't you hate someone who did that?
now, if you want to fan the fires of this conflagration, you and all those like you (if you succeed in persuading the U.S. govt to continue this foolish course, will eventually have to pay through the results -- a economic disaster, alienation of the rest of the world, govt deficits to cover the expenses, dead and wounded -- no end to occupation of Iraq.
problem is, if this does continue and the repercussions hit, all of us, even those of us who oppose the present course of action, will suffer the consequences.
that's what i hate about the situation -- the foolish are bringing the wise down with them.
posted by
Xeno-x
on September 13, 2006 at 2:53 PM
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Xeno...
The fact of the matter is that the most of current Jordan and Syria occupy the overwhelming majority of the original Canaanite (Palestinian) homeland. What's more, Canaanites were neither Arab nor Muslim until Arabs seized control of their land through military might; intermarried; and then converted the majority of Canaanites to Islam. Meanwhile, Jews have always lived near Jerusalem with the Canaanites. Centuries ago Jews bought huge parcels of land from the Arab controllers of Canaan. Now, however, the Arabs want Israelis to relinquish the land that they legally purchased because the Arabs who control Jordan and Syria do NOT want to relinquish the land in Syria and Jordan that truly belongs to the Palestinians.
THOSE are the historical facts of pre-Christian history.
As for the US government concocting hatred on the part of Muslim extremists, I really don't think that's true at all. And the overwhelming evidence supports the notion that radical Muslims do hate Americans. Fiftytwo American hostages held against their will for 444 days would indicate a hatred. Beheading American journalists in Iraq would seem to indicate a visceral hatred.
Look, if someone doesn't like the military or political policies of the US then I have no objection to their engagement in violence. However, if you wish to somehow temper that hatred with factuality then at least get the facts right. Namely, current Israel occupies the smallest fraction of the Palestinian homeland. Despite that, Israel offered 95% of that land to Yassir Arafat not ten years ago and he declined the offer. Meanwhile, the governments of Jordan and Syria have offered the Palestinian people absolutely NOTHING in the way of restoring their homeland. Yet, Israel (which occupies legally purchased land) is the bully here? How's that work out? What if native Americans demanded that you relinquish the home and property you currently occupy because you legally purchased the parcel, but they once pitched a teepee on the acreage your home now occupies? Would you simply say, "Oh, yeah...how right you are, Chief Running Bare. Take my home. Take my computer. Take my pet gerbil. It was really all yours to begin with."
Whom, besides the Shah of Iran, has America supported as some sort of despot that goes around randomly killing people? The funny thing is, you want to fault the American government for removing Saddam Hussein from power while concurrently faulting them for not removing the Shah from power. Why do you always want things both ways? Why condemn the government for acting against one despot while simultaneously condemning the government for not acting against another? Should the US invade Cuba and finally remove Fidel Castro because most Cubans live well below the world's poverty line? Or would that invasion rank as an unjust cause in your arbitrary book of justice?
What do you want? Do you want the US to remove despots or not?
And by the way, for every Shah of Iran, I can point to five success stories where the US government played the most important role in bringing democracy and prosperity to oppressed people of a country or region. We can begin with Japan, South Korea, the Philippines, Germany, France, Holland, Italy...
HM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on September 13, 2006 at 12:52 PM
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Hugh_Manatee
hating israelis and having a problem with the state of Israel occupying what was previously Arab land (apparently without much consultation with Arabs) are two different things
Jews had settled Arab controlled Palestine for centuries. It was not until the 19th, when a movement began on the part of Jews to begin settling Palestine wholesale, that a problem arose.
my point, if you will pay attention, is that the administration, I feel, has concocted Islamo-fascism as a cover for waging their war (not mine) against an imaginary enemy.
by that I mean that they have taken statements and rhetoric and fashioned them into the impression of a movement.
problem is that Arabs really don't seem to hate us as much as others around the globe whom we have exploited and where we have supported regimes that make Saddam look like a boy scout (particularly the Shah of Iran). Why wouldn't people hate us?
I'm halfway amazed that more don't.
posted by
Xeno-x
on September 13, 2006 at 12:13 PM
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Xeno...
I would never use the irrational Arab hatred for Israel as part of my argument in any debate. You seem to contradict yourself when you initially claim that Islamo-fascism was concocted by the US government, but then go on to cite the very irrational Arab hatred that lies at the core of this "concocted" form of Muslim extremism.
You can't have it both ways. Either the Muslims have a legitmate reason for hating Israelies or they don't.
Which is it?
HM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on September 13, 2006 at 9:02 AM
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cantey_1975 -- islamo-fascism is a myth concocted by our government
to instill fear in Americans of another culture, darker skinned, etc. so that support may be gained for an illegitmate war.
the roots of Arab (not Islam) hatred of the U.S. lie both in western oppression and in support for Israel, which has never been accepted in the Arab world.
posted by
Xeno-x
on September 13, 2006 at 8:56 AM
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xeno
I think you should be a little more concerned about Islamofacism and exposing its evils and its clear and present danger at this point in time, since that is what is waging war against civilization. Are you really so blind? Its strange in light of the fact that you are obviously educated.
posted by
calmcantey75
on September 13, 2006 at 8:38 AM
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Er...
Constitution...
HM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on September 13, 2006 at 8:29 AM
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Xeno...Only One Objection From Me...
You say "attempting to control" where I could make a case that Christianity illegally seized control of the United States during the Lincoln Administration right around the time they insisted that "In God We Trust" become the official motto of our nation despite the US Constition's ban against such laws. I'd say that Christianity isn't attempting to control the US right now. Rather, Christians are fighting to maintain and tighten control over the freedom-loving American people.
HM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on September 13, 2006 at 8:27 AM
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