Comments on Am I a Mean-Spirited Blogger?

Go to Naut's View - Add a comment - Go to Am I a Mean-Spirited Blogger?

Blanche,

hey, maybe they secretly like it! Maybe it's like me telling my wife that I'll drink the Chateau Neuf du Pape so she doesn't have to...

By the way, the cactus doesn't flower any more. A more detailed answer to your question can be found on June 10 in 'Views'.

posted by Nautikos on September 13, 2006 at 8:26 PM | link to this | reply

Nautikos, this is weird, I thought I saw your comment earlier, but it's

just now popping back up again.  As for not watchng Fox, my favorite political station has a tag line: "We watch Fox so you don't have to".

posted by Blanche. on September 13, 2006 at 7:55 PM | link to this | reply

Blanche,

well, live and learn. I didn't know that FOX was telling the world Saddam was one of the 9/11 boys, and I don't listen to Rush either. I guess I'm watching the wrong news channels...

posted by Nautikos on September 13, 2006 at 7:52 PM | link to this | reply

Nautikos, I respectfully beg to differ on one fact you just mentioned,

50% of Americans believe that Saddam Hussein was connected to 9/11 and Al Qaeda, because FOX network, Rush Limbaugh, and Bill O'Reilly have been repeating it ad nauseam. At least one study showed that FOX viewers were less well-informed than the general public, so watching FOX actually made them dumber. 

Dick Cheney demands that his tv be turned to only FOX network, I suppose so he won't be inadvertently subjected to critical thinking himself.  The problem  was systemic before this Administration took office, but with the No Child Left Behind standardized tests, and unfunded mandates, it has accelerated measurably.  They've helped it along. 

posted by Blanche. on September 13, 2006 at 11:53 AM | link to this | reply

Blanche

look, there were problems with the American educational system long before George W. was but a gleam in the eye of his dad! Things have been going downhill for a long time, and to blame any particular administration makes no sense.

I mean, I would actually like to blame Clinton, and I would if I could do so in good conscience, but my conscience won't let me...

Critical thinking? One would be happy with any kind of thinking! Here's a snapshot: according to a recent survey, roughly 50% of Americans believe Saddam Hussein was involved in the 9/11 attack!  No one told them that! In fact, the message has always been quite clear that Saddam was not involved! So all those bright lights worked it out for themselves! Go figure...

posted by Nautikos on September 13, 2006 at 11:48 AM | link to this | reply

Well Naut, no hair no hassle, that was my theory back then.

Times have changed though, as have I, as has our education system, the rules are better, the same problems exist to a degree.

posted by Cringe on September 13, 2006 at 6:28 AM | link to this | reply

Cringe,

to someone who is sporting a style of hair best described as 0, a length of 1 would certainly seem sufficient. In fact, I'd be delighted to be a 1!  And the principal's position  seems arbitrary, especially in view of permitting those other types to roam freely (in our neck of the woods they call themselves 'Goths').  

But believe me, I harbour no illusions about our educational system either, where often the untaught are trying to teach the unteachable, and frequently the brightest ones suffer most! And yet, surprisingly, most kids come out of that experience relatively intact, as you seem to have.

And it isn't always just because of the schools, or the children, or even because of the parents, that things are the way they are, but because of a whole constellation of factors which influence all of this. In many ways, schools simply reflect the tensions and conflicts present in the wider society...

posted by Nautikos on September 13, 2006 at 6:07 AM | link to this | reply

Nautikos, 'conspiracy" may be too strong a word, I think

It implies a consciious, collusive effort amongst players, that might be difficult to pull off. However, learning takes effort, and needs to be rewarded, encouraged, and supprted.  Why would  it be in the interests of the Bushes and their "base" to have a criticually thinking mass of people? Critical evaluation of facts undermines authority, questioning authority, makes it more difficult to work people by emotion and not by reason.  Just my thoughts.

posted by Blanche. on September 12, 2006 at 4:57 PM | link to this | reply

Naut, disillusioned? The assistant principal threatened to throw me

out because I cut my hair too short (number 1 or 2) and wore 'bohemian' tights/pantihose under my uniform.

Meanwhile, the long-haired metallers with their horror movie paintings on the back of their leather jackets went remarkably unnoticed.

I missed over 80 days between January and May and no one even bothered phoning home, I stopped going to school in March of my final year and 'studied' at home.  Still passed the whole damned lot with flying colours in four higher level subjects and two ordinary level, though naturally if I'd have attended class I'd have done much better.

The rules have changed now, no one can miss more than 20 days in a school year (with or without satisfactory medical certification) without being questioned by the local authorities and possibly having to pay a fine if lacking.

It would've created pandemonium in my school had a questionnaire like that been handed out.  'What are you spending money on handing out this crap for? Get us a better vending machine, better canteen/sports/arts/music facilities, or teachers who aren't senile or burnt out', or something along those lines.

posted by Cringe on September 12, 2006 at 1:32 PM | link to this | reply

Straight,

...and possibly not! I think the whole thing is out of line!

posted by Nautikos on September 11, 2006 at 3:55 AM | link to this | reply

Cringe,

why do I get the impression you were a bit disillusioned with school?

posted by Nautikos on September 11, 2006 at 3:53 AM | link to this | reply

Maybe it's to impress about diversity as you said, but it could probably be

OK at 16?

posted by Straightforward on September 10, 2006 at 8:07 PM | link to this | reply

Actually Corbin, very well said. I don't have those skills, but

then I refused to go to school half of the time.

I don't understand how practicality doesn't come into play in education any more.  Life skills.  I mean I got an 'A' in Theorems, yet refused to sit my final Math exam because at the time I believed I couldn't do anything other than basic math, the type that just about qualifies as a life skill (just don't ask me about compound interest - very sore point as my bank and Credit union will tell you).

Again it goes with my rough theory of learning about the frosting/icing before learning about making the damned cake.

'Here lies one who's name was written in many toilet stalls'

Cringe was 'ere.

posted by Cringe on September 10, 2006 at 12:03 PM | link to this | reply

Blanche,

excellent idea! You might also go to the school board or whatever it's called that's running the schools in your area.

Having said that, I don't think there's a conspiracy on the part of 'the elite' to keep 'the masses' stupid! 'The masses' are doing a fine job of that all by themselves!

Not that we don't have very serious problems, constant 'social engineering', as Corbin rightly points out, and the pervasive presence of PC being just a couple of them. But these are complex issues, and it's best to divest oneself of simple 'conspiracy theories'...

posted by Nautikos on September 10, 2006 at 7:28 AM | link to this | reply

Corbin,

Readin'? 'Ritin'?? Civility??? Where in the world do you get these outmoded ideas?

Seriously though, it's a disgrace!

posted by Nautikos on September 10, 2006 at 5:02 AM | link to this | reply

naut.....

Hang tough...........I'm sure it's depressing as hell.......but each day should be a bit better for you than the previous one..........I know you'll persevere.......

posted by Corbin_Dallas on September 10, 2006 at 4:47 AM | link to this | reply

Naut.........

You're as mean-spirited as they come.....

It's all absurd........the schools systems in the US and Canada are dominated by social engineers bent on making it a  "Kumbaya" world.........now, if the kids could read and write at theit intended levels, balance a checkbook, understand civility,  and comprehend at least 50% of what they read......perhaps they wouldn't need guidance in these areas at all.................would they?

posted by Corbin_Dallas on September 10, 2006 at 4:44 AM | link to this | reply

Azur,

one would certainly hope students would toss this questionnaire either back at those administering it or in the big waste basket found in every classroom - but will they? I would also be interested in the parents' reactions...

posted by Nautikos on September 10, 2006 at 4:41 AM | link to this | reply

OFFBEATS,

indeed, why the hell go where they have no business?

posted by Nautikos on September 10, 2006 at 4:33 AM | link to this | reply

Rarm,

lol, I like that bit about 'righteous steam' - too bad in many people the safety valve is stuck, leading to rather nasty consequences...

posted by Nautikos on September 10, 2006 at 4:30 AM | link to this | reply

Nautikos, re-reading my comment to you reminds me that I need to follow up

next week, and figure out who to contact, I may just go directly to the local high school and ask who to speak to about volunteering to be a volunteer assistant.  Anyway, you've sparked a whole lot of discussion here.  Myself, I think that the schools get stuck with a lot of social engineering, appeasing various factions and things like actually learning to critically evaluate facts, real information, and how to think take a backseat, none of which I'm sure would bother many of the variious elite factions who would prefer if the mass of humanity were kept ignorant and sated with mindless television, meanwhile the world turns dark. 

 

posted by Blanche. on September 9, 2006 at 6:27 PM | link to this | reply

The answer that students should give is NOYB

None of your (damned) business. If they are seeking diversity why would they tell students to "choose one"

posted by Azur on September 9, 2006 at 6:07 PM | link to this | reply

I don't think your mean spirited . The world of labels is a confusing place. Maybe they should just call it like it is or better yet why call it at all?

posted by Offy on September 9, 2006 at 5:53 PM | link to this | reply

Dear Naut

You are absolutely right. The road to Hell is indeed politically correct and filled with broken bits of conventional wisdom.

     My point was not that the dumbass school board was OK because it "wanted a good outcome," it was merely that we all say and do stupid stuff when we travel too far beyond the boundaries of our own essential core of love and reason. We all know what's right, but it's so much fun to be wrong when we've got a head of righteous steam up ... And that's what I think this school board did.

     Hate the sin, love the sinner, My Brothers and Sisters ...

              

 

 

posted by Rarmcwa on September 9, 2006 at 5:46 PM | link to this | reply

Cringe,

you know, that's a very astute observation, and very well expressed, that 'things have become so fuzzy round the edges they almost have no substance anymore.'

Sociologists have a word for that, 'anomie.' And in complex ways it is bound up with cultural decay, reflexively, both as cause and effect.  

posted by Nautikos on September 8, 2006 at 12:54 PM | link to this | reply

Thanks Naut, that's amazing about living in this time,

things have become so fuzzy round the edges they almost have no substance anymore.

Though for my part, I'm glad I was a single mother in the last decade as the stigma was lifting, that I was part of something progressive for a seemingly bad thing.  Ironic though, I become a single mother it's not half so bad as just being a 'ladette' trying to sow the equivalent of my wild oats.  Don't think Ireland was ready for my misbegotten, ill-conceived mission, or the world for that matter.

Darn, shoulda moved to Sweden, where the ladies are liberated and the men don't mind, but do you know it seems so ridiculous that I even found it important in the first place.

posted by Cringe on September 8, 2006 at 12:28 PM | link to this | reply

Cringe,

actually, I don't think you're off topic at all - you're just pointing to the other end of a continuum. And of course I agree that those conditions were horrendous - and may they never return.

But there is no doubt that the old pendulum has swung way, way too far to the other side...

And I'm going to take a look at that DVD, if I can find it here...

posted by Nautikos on September 7, 2006 at 5:45 PM | link to this | reply

Off topic, but would recommend 'The Magdalene Sisters'

as a DVD rental, it's all about the not too distant past and the glorious days of Catholic punishment of girls who so much as talked to boys, all the way too the misfortunates interred in the Magdalene laundrettes for having children out of wedlock, or even being raped.  Sexuality well, that was a dirty word.

The last one closed in the '90's - imagine that! Unmarried girls were still sent there to hide their pregnancies and have their babies adopted?  Just over a decade later, we have clocked up savage mileage all the way from 'going too far' to the likes of 'two spirited'. 

Just a different spin on things, and how the world turns.  I guarantee that it is worth the watch, but be advised it is disturbing, and even my construction worker brother ended up leaky round the eyesockets.

Sorry Naut, it was just the mention of nuns that got me started, being a former wayward convent girl myself.

posted by Cringe on September 7, 2006 at 3:24 PM | link to this | reply

Blanche,

dealing with kids who can't read can be terribly frustrating, but also very rewarding. And there's another facet to that, of course: to get them to want to read, to get them to see that there is a world out there they will never know if they don't read extensively...

posted by Nautikos on September 7, 2006 at 10:47 AM | link to this | reply

Rarm,

thanks for your visit and the extensive comment. I agree with you in most respects, but I have never been able to subscribe to the notion that good intentions should be accepted as an excuse for wrong actions. Stupidity may not be as bad as evil, but its consequences are often identical. Having the heart in the right place doesn't help if there's nothing in that place between the ears!

What's that old saw? 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions...'

posted by Nautikos on September 7, 2006 at 10:27 AM | link to this | reply

You're not mean-spirited at all. But boy, are we all confused on this issue

   The problem is, after decades of being second-class citizens, those of us whom God has hard-wired for unconventional sexuality are getting a little weird.

   I've got several billion gay and lesbian pals, and I'd trust any or all of them with my bank account, my child, my gun or my car (more than I can say for, oh, say, Pat Robertson). My take, from conversations I've had with them (and most of them are not terribly militant on most of these issues) is that each action has an equal and sometimes over-the-top reaction. The schools were nuts to approach the issue of childhood sexuality in this ham-handed fashion, but I think their hearts were in the right place. Kids that age are intense conformists (which is what makes the whole notion of "lifestyle choice" such a nonstarter ... no kid I've ever met would ever "choose" to be different in such a socially hazardous fashion, which is why so many of them deny their sexuality for years, pray to God to be made normal, hide their love and lust, etc.) that they're scared to death of not having the right haircut, the right clothes, the right preferences in musical groups ... or the right sexuality. So probably the schools were just trying to tell them "I'm OK, you're OK."

   Which does not excuse this idiotic invasion of privacy. The pendulum has definitely swung 'way too far in this case.

   Hang in there, baby, things will get better one of these days ... perhaps in our lifetimes. At the age of 55, with health issues aplenty, I'm not sure how long I'll last, but hey, I'm willing to keep my powder dry and pray for rain against the possibility that one day we'll judge each other on the content of our characters rather than what we do behind closed doors with other consenting adults.

posted by Rarmcwa on September 7, 2006 at 9:25 AM | link to this | reply

i agree in a way -- i think that is maybe out of place

but society -- sort of confused -- running the gamut of thought.  lots of reaction against abusive parents.

but still, young people should at some time in their early life, pause to contemplate who they really are and not let adults with agendas dictate such

posted by Xeno-x on September 6, 2006 at 6:15 PM | link to this | reply

Nautikos, if I couldn't get out and walk every day, I'd be grumpy, too

I know it's cold comfort, because it's easy to counsel patience when it's not oneself, but even small incremental progress can be a measure of recovery.  I hope you find other outlets for now, until you're on the road.  I've decided that it is really time to put my money where my mouth is, and start doing something about the things that bother me, like kids who can't read. 

posted by Blanche. on September 6, 2006 at 5:11 PM | link to this | reply

Blanche,

excellent idea! Many high school students need monitoring badly, especially when parents can't or won't do it. And I know you'll be doing a great job!

As far as my own progress is concerned, well, things are improving, but I am somewhat depressed and very grumpy! I can't ride my bike, am not allowed to work out or swim, and I'm not even permitted to drive.

And a week ago I had to tell a client that I won't be able to take up the contract we had negotiated...

 

posted by Nautikos on September 6, 2006 at 5:01 PM | link to this | reply

Nautikos, thank you for your vote of confidence, I've found a website on

Community for Youth, to mentor local high school students, that I need to contact.  I hope it's a reputable organization.  That, and getting involved locally in the elections are my two main goals right now as well as preparing for a move.

How are you feeling?  

posted by Blanche. on September 6, 2006 at 4:29 PM | link to this | reply

Tanga,

I guess they're not quite as 'progressive' in Zambia yet...

posted by Nautikos on September 6, 2006 at 4:28 PM | link to this | reply

Nana,

thanks for dropping in! And let me know what you find out...

posted by Nautikos on September 6, 2006 at 4:27 PM | link to this | reply

posted by Tanga on September 6, 2006 at 9:29 AM | link to this | reply

Nautikos

I think I'll look up the 'two spirited' thing- interesting 

posted by Nanaroo on September 6, 2006 at 8:01 AM | link to this | reply

Blanche,

thanks for dropping in and for your comments! I think it's great that you plan to get involved in education! I know you well enough by now to be utterly convinced you'll be making a very positive contribution!

Also, I fully share your views on nuns, rulers and, of course, pendulums, and especially the ones on candles and cursing!

 

posted by Nautikos on September 5, 2006 at 7:47 PM | link to this | reply

How are you recouping, Nautikos?

posted by Blanche. on September 5, 2006 at 2:02 PM | link to this | reply

Nautikos, I don't want to go back to the "spare the rod, spoil the child"

ruler-thwacking nun days (I think you mentioned, or maybe it was Gomedome, who was mentioning the nuns), but I think society has veered, pendulum-style, WAY too far to an oppositve extreme, that of not seeming to care if anyone actually learns FACTS, but wanting to include everyone.  I am not a teacher, so I don't want to claim I know the answers.

However, I am looking for an opening to volunteer as a mentor/aide or something. Better to light a candle, than to curse the darkness. Actually, I am perfectly okay with cursing while lighting the candle, lol. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive! 

posted by Blanche. on September 5, 2006 at 2:01 PM | link to this | reply

Justi,

thanks for dropping in again! I'm hangin' in here.  The latest update is on my other blog...

posted by Nautikos on September 5, 2006 at 1:59 PM | link to this | reply

LeRoy,

you're absolutely right! The aim is to promote 'alternative life-styles'!

posted by Nautikos on September 5, 2006 at 1:57 PM | link to this | reply

Xeno,

I take it that, because of the direction you're coming from, you don't seem to be able to condemn this sorry business unequivocally...

posted by Nautikos on September 5, 2006 at 1:55 PM | link to this | reply

Wiley,

thanks for the cone! With that kind of incentive, I guess I'll get to work again, if not immediately, at least soon...

posted by Nautikos on September 5, 2006 at 1:51 PM | link to this | reply

Cringe,

thanks for dropping in! Actually, these questionnaires are just being handed out starting today, so we won't know the kids' (or the parents') reactions yet. It's to be hoped that most of them would thell the Board to stick them where the sun don't shine...

posted by Nautikos on September 5, 2006 at 1:48 PM | link to this | reply

Jane,

thanks for the compliment! Trouble is, people like that don't want to talk to people like me...

posted by Nautikos on September 5, 2006 at 1:44 PM | link to this | reply

Blanche,

yep, I agree! Something is terribly, terribly wrong! I have an idea how we got into this, but no clue on how to get out...

posted by Nautikos on September 5, 2006 at 1:42 PM | link to this | reply

TAPS,

my own high scholl experince was diffrent as well! And I'm not surprised at the trend towards home schooling - I just hope the parents know what they're doing...

posted by Nautikos on September 5, 2006 at 1:40 PM | link to this | reply

Nautokis you know I feel this is a great post. Have already read it.

I just dropped in to see how you are doing. Be blessed.

posted by Justi on September 5, 2006 at 12:05 PM | link to this | reply

Naut

Why do they have to spend millions and millions of dollars to promote their version of tolerance?  (and thats what this is, promotion).  When will they get down to real business?

posted by LeRoyCoyote on September 5, 2006 at 11:22 AM | link to this | reply

preference is choosing

orientation is basically being naturally a certain way.

I don't know that I would like my children being asked thse questions --  only thing is, I'm coming from a different direction than you are in a way.

too many children are insulated from reality.

posted by Xeno-x on September 5, 2006 at 8:15 AM | link to this | reply

Nautikos

posted by WileyJohn on September 5, 2006 at 4:47 AM | link to this | reply

I'm shocked that none of the kids were smart enough to turn around

and question it's relevance or whether it was anyone's business?

Along the lines of what Blanche said, I just think it's the product of some overfunded department/researchers in the school board that needs to generate interest to make sure they make the budget for next year.  This is just 'making busy' as far as I'm concerned, and a ridiculous question to put to kids who probably still forget to wash behind their ears.

Why is there no category for people who are not interested in anything at all? 

posted by Cringe on September 4, 2006 at 2:12 PM | link to this | reply

what the He__???????

(What is "two spirited"??? -- male/female spirit??)

That is such a load of crap. 

No Nautikos, you're not mean spirited.  It would seem you have more common sense than the entire school board.

posted by JanesOpinion on September 4, 2006 at 1:50 PM | link to this | reply

Nautikos, here in the home of Political Correctness, I seem to be a

curmudgeonly anomaly myself.  The aim is inclusiveness and a warm and fuzzy feeling of equality.  I like the line from an old tv show, Dharma and Greg,  Dharma had a progressively reared childhood, where when she competed in a science fair, all the kids got ribbons, even the kid who ate cellophane and said, "look, I'm recycling'".  Something is terribly wrong. 

posted by Blanche. on September 4, 2006 at 11:49 AM | link to this | reply

Nautikos, In yesterday's newspaper was a feature titled Different Dropouts about the organized and growing movement advocating home schooling.   Its true that the reasons given for home schooling included 30% religious reasons but, the other 70% was mostly dissatisfaction with school environment and academic instruction.   I have been sitting remembering what public school was like for me when I was 13-14 and wondering what I would have done with such a question.  I know that times are different, but it doesn't have to be that different.

posted by TAPS. on September 4, 2006 at 8:01 AM | link to this | reply

Fact,

that's one way of putting it..., and thanks for dropping in!

posted by Nautikos on September 4, 2006 at 7:41 AM | link to this | reply

Grade 9 huh?

interesting...

posted by FactorFiction on September 4, 2006 at 7:03 AM | link to this | reply

Rumored,

The Toronto Star would not agree with you, unfortunately...

posted by Nautikos on September 4, 2006 at 6:56 AM | link to this | reply

Wiley,

yep, it boggles the mind, doesn't it? And you know what? The Toronto Star applauds this...

posted by Nautikos on September 4, 2006 at 6:53 AM | link to this | reply

muser,

I agree with you completely, of course, and I would hope  there will be a strong reaction from the parents. I would hope, but then again, in today's climate, one can't be sure...

posted by Nautikos on September 4, 2006 at 6:45 AM | link to this | reply

you are not mean-spirited at all, Naut...the school board is another

story, hoisting this kind of survey on "kids"

posted by Rumor on September 4, 2006 at 6:19 AM | link to this | reply

Nautikos

I'm not sure I have this straight? lol Gad, what next? Great blog my friend

posted by WileyJohn on September 3, 2006 at 11:06 AM | link to this | reply

Nautikos, I am a nice lady until I read something like what you have

posted here...then I get in touch with my dark side (does this make me two-spirited?). How about...1)it's none of their damn business for starters, and 2)students at the tender age of 14 should not be LED by adults into thinking about such things as , gassssssssp!, many of these fourteen year olds might still be CHILDREN! I would be furious to have a school system be so presumptious as to insert themselves into the privacy of my home in such a brazen manner!

posted by muser on September 2, 2006 at 7:43 PM | link to this | reply

Whacky,

thanks for dropping in! I think this is wrong, and more than that, it's damaging!

posted by Nautikos on September 2, 2006 at 4:36 PM | link to this | reply

Sarooster,

again, I agree! The whole thing is bizarre!

posted by Nautikos on September 2, 2006 at 4:35 PM | link to this | reply

Xeno,

are you advocating that children should be asked questions you would feel uncomfortable with?

And exactly what distinction do you draw between 'orientation' and 'preference'?

posted by Nautikos on September 2, 2006 at 4:33 PM | link to this | reply

Justi,

I do agree with you!

posted by Nautikos on September 2, 2006 at 4:25 PM | link to this | reply

Don't think that is what the kids are in school for.

They should be there to learn!

posted by Whacky on September 2, 2006 at 3:34 PM | link to this | reply

Naut,

Justi is correct. School is not the forum to ask a question like this. Teach them the 3 R's!!

posted by sarooster on September 2, 2006 at 2:19 PM | link to this | reply

that's about the time when kids

begin to be aware of their sexuality.

makes them think.

although here in the US it could be taken for prying.    in a way, i would not be comfortable answering a question about my sexual orientation.

not preference, orientation.

posted by Xeno-x on September 2, 2006 at 2:14 PM | link to this | reply

Nautikos

This is ridiculous. I did not send my children to school to determine their sexual orientation. I sent them to get an education in math, science, history, English etc., this is actually outrageous.

posted by Justi on September 2, 2006 at 1:58 PM | link to this | reply