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Sunnybeach7 - that is the key with me as well
It takes a certain amount of audacity to demand respect from others pertaining to one's beliefs, while at the same time refusing to show any respect for any other beliefs.
posted by
gomedome
on August 28, 2006 at 7:13 AM
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gome
I have always felt that people are worthy of the same type of respect that they can provide.
Good Post!
posted by
Afzal_Sunny7
on August 28, 2006 at 7:08 AM
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SevenStars - this is the first time that a person whos beliefs were not
closely aligned with mine has said such a thing.
posted by
gomedome
on August 28, 2006 at 6:17 AM
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I don't always agree with what you are saying...
Especially since I am one of the "believers" but I still read your posts, because I love to hear opinions from all sides of the spectrum.
Reason for this post is just to say I respect you for your views. Guess not many "believers" have told you that before without adding a "but" afterwards.
posted by
SevenStars
on August 28, 2006 at 12:26 AM
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Xeno-x -- that is exactly the "thing"
A sense of entitlement has been derived from occupying a dominant position within our societies. Now that the demographics are shifting away from this dominant position as never before, people that have mouthed the words of equality etc. etc. are having a hard time adjusting. The words of those who drafted democracy have to be actually lived up to and put into practice now, unfortunately human nature attempts to exert itself. ...."...government will recognize no religion.....except mine of course and to hell with everyone else...."
posted by
gomedome
on August 27, 2006 at 5:41 PM
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here's the thing
Christianity by virtue of being carried on the back of the governmental bodies ever since Rome, predominates and dominates Western Society,.
It enjoys a virtual sacred position from the Ural Mountains to the Pacific Ocean (and, by virtue of riding on the back of conquering Spain, England and U.S., enjoys a dominant spot in the Pacific rim).
To incorporate, then, ideas of religious equality, as espoused by the Founding Fathers, or at least, less dominance of Christianity, becomes a bone of contention to those adherents. They do not want to abdicate the power they have in the public forum.
Any move toward equality becomes, to them, an attack on god., when they should realize how much they really are being protected by true religious freedom.
It is taking away the dominance of their religion that is their problem, when they decry a same mentality on the part of other religions and other religious states (only we aren't in a religious state, only in their imaginations).
posted by
Xeno-x
on August 27, 2006 at 4:50 PM
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gomedome, I don't see the words of The Bible (any of them) as being a con but, I agree that anyone at anytime can pervert the truth and use it for their own gain and that is very sad for all concerned.
posted by
TAPS.
on August 27, 2006 at 1:52 PM
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TAPS- - that's good that you are laughing - I was trying to be funny
...but many true words are spoken in jest and this is one of those cases. In my original response to your first comment, I mentioned the word "con" and the notion of "hardening a sales force"....Amway meetings of 30 years ago were of a more religious nature than what I assume they are today. There were some not so subtle elements of bible scriptures adopted by the organization to compel its strictly commission sales force; to not only get out and sell but to keep selling once they had met with some resistance from the naysayers and those of negative perspective.
The significance of mentioning this; is that once the very few words in the scriptures had been replaced with the pertinent words of the sales force and then regurgitated for sales use, the original scriptures are exposed for what they are. They are a sales force template, just put your own subject into them and you can sell anything with these scriptures. This of course is an outsider's perspective but that is what I meant by these scriptures being a "con."......and a very good one at that.
posted by
gomedome
on August 27, 2006 at 1:40 PM
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HAHAHA, I'm sorry, gomedome. I couldn't help but laugh. Once I visit the home of one of my little Sunday School children to invite the parents to come to church and they were very nice, but the were Amway people and I couldn't get a word in edgewise. LOL
posted by
TAPS.
on August 27, 2006 at 1:15 PM
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SuccessWarrior and TAPS- - I went to one of those meetings once
But it had a different name ---- they called it Amway.
posted by
gomedome
on August 27, 2006 at 1:04 PM
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gomedome, I hope you don't mind if I address SuccessWarrior on your site. I have experienced that training myself. When I was young, it was called "M-Night". "M" stood for mobilization. The association of our denomination in our city would plan and prepare this rally about twice a year if I remember right. Churches would recruit members and bus them to the host church. There was a banner awarded for the best attendance to take back to your church and display it until the next rally. There were special meetings for different ages and then a grand meeting for everyone together. You, SuccessWarrior would have found it very interesting.
posted by
TAPS.
on August 27, 2006 at 12:32 PM
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I would like to see the training for that kind of sales team gome.
"Okay guys, I want you to try and selling as many nifty-widgets as you can. And remember, the more times you hear someone say 'no', the better a salesperson you are. Give 'em hell!"
posted by
SuccessWarrior
on August 27, 2006 at 12:25 PM
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I would like to think that it's going to be a peaceful transition
but I think that Christians are going to set themselves up for some backlash. The harder they fight against the change, the harder the change will be on them.
posted by
SuccessWarrior
on August 27, 2006 at 12:24 PM
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TAPS- I agree - it does not negate real persecution
It does however cloud the issue and the ability to see the difference between the warranted and unwarranted.
posted by
gomedome
on August 27, 2006 at 12:15 PM
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Yes, I can see what you are saying, gomedome. I'm sure that those with the most disrespect and wrong attitude will be the first to yell "persecution!" But, that does not negate the real thing where it is not necessarily deserved. Its the old lesson of the wheat and the tares growing together until harvest.
posted by
TAPS.
on August 27, 2006 at 11:52 AM
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TAPS- - don't you see this as a clever con?
"Jesus himself said that we would be reviled and persecuted, that men would say all manner of evil against us for his sake. He said that we should rejoice when that happens."
I see it as a means of hardening the attitudes of a sales force. It also is very clever in that it sets up a built in deflection of all criticism. Where it disserves those who adhere to it is in that; not all criticism (of any set of religious beliefs) falls into the categories of persecution and of being reviled. Sometimes the criticism is warranted, this is true of any persons or group. But when one group is adhering to the notion that all negative things said about them have been forewarned by a divine entity, it is inevitable that they will not see things about themselves that they should change.
posted by
gomedome
on August 27, 2006 at 11:44 AM
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gomedome, Christians who demand respect for their beliefs from non-Christians are not well versed in the teachings of the Bible. Jesus himself said that we would be reviled and persecuted, that men would say all manner of evil against us for his sake. He said that we should rejoice when that happens. It takes that sort of thing for Christians to really become more Christ-like. It is probably true that those who demand respect are the least likely to receive it and the least likely have any respect those of other beliefs. Humility is a hard lesson to learn.
posted by
TAPS.
on August 27, 2006 at 11:30 AM
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SuccessWarrior - that's the part that many are slow to realize
We hear some people decry decisions that have religious symbols removed from public places, we even still hear some decry the removal of prayer from schools. Anyone complaining about such things must not be able to grasp that these moves protect them as much as anyone else.
posted by
gomedome
on August 27, 2006 at 11:27 AM
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The good news gomey is that people not affiliated with specific religions
are going to be more predominant. It will be harder and harder for religions to bully people when they become outnumbered.
posted by
SuccessWarrior
on August 27, 2006 at 11:14 AM
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