Comments on GOD MAKES IT SO CREATIVITY AND IMAGINATION ARE MEANINGLESS

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kooka_lives - I apologize for having a hand in this

I spoke candidly in an unkind manner about a former blogger, which is always ill advised and I should know better. For that indescretion I am truly sorry but make no mistake about what part of my actions I actually regret. The fact that it caused you any kind of stress or concern. That's it, the sum total of my regrets for saying what I did, which was, (or at least seemed) to be instrumental in starting all of this.

This experience has not been as unpleasant for me as it has been for you. I've actually found the crawfish act of my wannabe adversary quite entertaining. Despite bare faced lies to the contrary, my initial words, though seemingly harsh, were nothing that I have not endured from the object of my disdain in the past. The real funny part of all this is that I have never retracted my harsh words, I still believe them to be true. Again I apologize for stirring up this pot, I won't do it again.

posted by gomedome on August 21, 2006 at 5:25 PM | link to this | reply

Ody

If you can not understand how you are insulting me, then you clearly are not able to grow spiritually and are always going to be nothing more than a ego maniac with a messiah complex who is not worth dealing with.

Since you very clearly are unable to do as I have asked, you are now blocked. You are not worth the time, effort or stress.

Why is it that you seem to think you can guilt people in to giving into to you? You have tried it so many times with me and every time I have upset you by not giving in. Well, you are blocked now so I don't really expect an answer to that.

Maybe once you grow up some and actually are willing to open your mind and try to grasp other beliefs outside of your own and respect them for their own merits I might be willing to converse with you again. I doubt I will even look at any of you posts. Also, please do not e-mail me. Any e-mails from you will be deleted unread. You just are not worth dealing with in any form right now.

You are just not worth dealing with since you refuse to acknowledge your actions. I gain nothing from conversing with you accept a stress headache.

In three years here on Blogit, you are the first one to bring me to the point where I had to block you. If you knew my patience and tolerance level you might understand just how big a deal this is. I really do not believing blocking people, and would only do it when I truly felt it was needed. Unlike your implications I am not doing this as a retreat or as some kind of defense because I feel threatened. You seriously have yet to present anything that I can not show the flaws in. The problem is you refuse to show me respect and actually listen to what it is I am saying. If you wish to converse with me again, grow up and stop insulting me. Actually practice what you preach and start learning what spirituality is. You have a long way to go if you ever wish to live up to your own ideals, let along something realistic.

I gave you a chance to show that you were not just trying to make me look bad, and you went and tried to make me look bad. You could have actually backed off and gave yourself time to think before you made a comments. You did not and so that is that.

And don't worry, I will not talk about you by name and I will do all I can to forget you are here on Blogit.

posted by kooka_lives on August 21, 2006 at 4:43 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka…… Blocking your blog is nothing but a retreat.

It is the only defense you can muster, when your insults and misrepresentations produce futile results. I stand on this: “I have not insulted you since my return”; even though I’ve been constantly dodging a barrage of insults form you and gomedome. Gomedome was even insulting me in my absence, and you know it. I’m certain that you know me well enough to understand that I will not converse with you under censored circumstances. I’m more than willing to vacate your blog upon your request, if that is what you want.

posted by telemachus on August 21, 2006 at 4:04 PM | link to this | reply

Ody

You keep on claiming you are not insulting us, while we keep on pointing out to you that you are and saying exactly what it is that is the insult there. Instead of actually admitting to doing this and trying to grow and change and find a way to work in a true dialogue and trying to find that middle ground you claim to be looking for, you instead deny that you are doing anything wrong and you keep on insulting us.

I've had enough. If you wish to keep on leaving comments here, stop insulting me. It is that simple. If you are unable to figure out what you are doing that is insulting, then that says a whole lot.

You see if you really want to do the 'good' thing and try to get people to work together, you first need to make sure you approach is right. So in order to try and help force you to grow up a little and get over your ego issues I am giving this ultimatum.

Next comment you leave here better not insult me or have you denying the obvious truths. Try to write just one comment to me that is not smug and does not show your messiah complex. One comment that shows you are listening to what I am saying to you. One comment that does not try to put you on a pedestal while showing me to be some immoral, a horrible atheist who does nothing but attack you poor, misunderstood Christians.

If you can do this, then you might actually be on the path you claim you are on. if you can not, then I will block you and basically figure that I will have no more correspondence with you until you have found some way to prove to me you want to be respectful to me and that you understand just what it is you have been doing that is insulting.

Right now I am just fed up with you. Your ego shines brighter than all other egos here on Blogit combined. You seem to not understand anything about spirituality except your own greatly flawed concepts. From the moment you return this time, claiming that you were here to help me and Gomedome deal with our 'struggles' with your words from eight months ago (Which if you really believed that, it just shows you did not read my post or the comment we had made to each other) you have done nothing but insult us and pale yourself as some kind so superior spiritual being, which you are very clearly not.

I suggest you actually read my posts and my comments to you. That you actually try to grasp what it is I keep on saying to you, since so far you very clearly have not even tried to do that.

If your next comment to me is as poorly thought out and as insulting as all of yours have been so far, then you will be blocked and my correspondence with you will end for the time being. It is just not worth the stress to deal with someone as full of themselves as you are.

posted by kooka_lives on August 21, 2006 at 2:48 PM | link to this | reply

Gomedome………..I’m not at all certain that it’s possible to be your friend,

but I certainly think we could position ourselves for a more amicable exchange. You are intent upon provoking me and it isn’t going to happen.

Deception? What possible motive could I have for deceiving you? You and Kooka are so paranoid about how someone is going to trick you into believing in God. For the umpteenth time, I ‘m not trying to trick anyone!

And Gomedome, look around you; it is only your lone voice that I see throwing about all of this name-calling and ill will. To some lesser degree Kooka participates, but mainly at your encouragement. There have been plenty of opportunities for other bloggers to besiege me, if they so desired. I see no one here to support this vile ill will of yours, except yourself. An ill will that continued even during my eight-month absence, which is indicative of nothing less than hate and spite. Do you now propose to raise up some ghoulish conglomeration of bloggers against me? Will it be like in the movie Night of the Living Dead? Good Grief!

Again, why not just join me in resolving to have a peaceful exchange. All you have to do is stop firing your rockets at me. LOL

posted by telemachus on August 21, 2006 at 1:43 PM | link to this | reply

Gee Odysseus - if I am so vile and evil - why do you want to be my friend?

I thought you represented all that is good, yet you want evil and vile friends?
Could it be that you have not been entirely honest about your motives in "extending a hand in friendship" to me?.....heck no, there is no chance of you actually using deception to push your version of God on someone, how could anyone ever think that? ... you are the funniest person that I have ever encountered on this site. You are either putting us all on or you seriously do need help. In any event, it sure didn't take long before the real Odysseus came out. There is so much wrong with your last comment that I simply do not have time to cover all of it but there are two glaring problems to be addressed. The first one should be obvious, even to you. I am not the only person that remembers your behavior from your last stint here. You want to be careful about asking for consensus in regards to your behavior, you might not like the answers. The second problem is one that you have struggled with since you first came to Blogit (aside from telling the truth) .....you have no more rights than anyone else here. Simply because you have invented an invisible friend who you think gives you justification for your atrocious behavior, does not give you the right to pursue people whom you do not agree with.

Here is another little bit of bad news for you...you are not the messiah. That gig is already taken.

posted by gomedome on August 21, 2006 at 1:21 PM | link to this | reply

Gomedome………your constant references to some envisioned “bad behavior”

of mine are exaggerated exhortations that you have concocted solely in an attempt to thwart the spread of the concepts of God. It is clear now why you refuse to embrace the concept of truthfulness, and that is because you live in constant denial of it daily.

And Gomedome, it is ridiculous to think that just because you retain your commentary in your own blog that it is not an open attack upon others. That is so absurd! It’s not like you are doing it indoors inside your house. You are posting it on the web for the world to see! It is an outright attack; and the fact that you are retaining it inside your blog is no excuse for your behavior. Everyone here knows that you are engaged in open propaganda against God. Why would you deny it? Your blog is evidence enough!

Why don’t you tell us what your real agenda is here? Why do you continuously and relentlessly disparage God? It would seem that you would eventually get over it and move on to something else. Why do you incite people with your devilish characterizations and insult people with your wicked name-calling? Why must you stand in vile contempt of someone who is trying to befriend you?

You have no base to stand on here except one of evil and vileness. You refuse to embrace morality and attempt to poke fun of everyone who believes differently than you. People here see you for what you are! They see your untrue statements and bewildering accusations! You've demonstrated your true nature to everyone here; merely by the exchanges with me, since I’ve returned. I do not need to disparage you; you do it yourself!

posted by telemachus on August 21, 2006 at 12:04 PM | link to this | reply

I think your post would profit from a larger explanation

as to why a randomly formed nature is more meaningful than a, shall we say, intelligently designed one.

If I had were entrusted with making your case, I would say something along the lines of, the figures I detect in the caverns (or mountains, or whatever) are more amazing if randomly formed, because if they were formed by an intelligent designer then they are just logical results of the designer's intentions. If they are random, then they are truly mysterious.

Is this kind of what you were thinking?

posted by Dyl_Pickle on August 21, 2006 at 8:42 AM | link to this | reply

Odysseus - your "... hand extended in peace" - now that is funny

Every comment that you post demonstrates for me just how disingenuous you are. I have been bullying people? - name one, name one incident where I have transgressed onto the post of another blogger and bullied them. This assessment by you is simply your inability to understand the difference between one's opinion as posted in their own blog and one's behavior while interacting with others on this site. You have always had a problem making this distinction and now I see what your game is this time. "Deny everything and kill em with kindness" is probably the best description, except for a couple of little pesky issues. Your attempts to draw me into it are over and your claims to be the wounded party won't erase people's memories of your past behavior.

You see, that's the catch when you have been one of the biggest assholes that this forum has ever seen. No matter how you act now, what claims you make of "extending your hand in friendship" or whatever other attempts you make to normalize relationships with those you have had conflict with, all parties will remain suspicious. Now that you have lied to me about things you have said and done in the past; how do you think I am going to react? ....

posted by gomedome on August 21, 2006 at 6:37 AM | link to this | reply

Gomedome…..I’m totally flabbergasted that you would

make such erroneous and misleading statements. It seems you will go to any length to disparage the Godly. You should know that I have retained all of my previous posts. There is no name-calling or slander against you or Kooka among them. Your statements here are simply untrue. In fact, I can repost any of those posts again, in their original form, if you like. Of course, the truth is clear in this, because you are the one presently hurtling insults and name-calling, not I. That is the same way that it was eight months ago. You have not changed. I came back here with my hat in my hand. I have very cordially extended my hand to you and have worked diligently for peace with you. However, the only peace you seem to care about is one in which everyone leaves you alone to poke fun of others. The trouble is that when you are confronted with your own illogic, or when someone pokes back a little, you get all mad, instead of seriously considering your error. You are like a spoiled bully pouting on the playground because he finally got bullied back. But, nevertheless, the present is what it is. The clearly observable fact for all in this matter is that we now stand here, my hand extended in peace, and you continuing to hurl insults at me.

posted by telemachus on August 21, 2006 at 1:54 AM | link to this | reply

Odysseus - considering your behavior in the past, your comment can only be

described as incredible.

Incredible in that you think that deleting your blogs and with them all of the slander and name calling initiated by you, somehow deletes the memories of others as well. I didn't have you blocked for 8 months the last time you were an active member here because of "philosophical differences". It was because you relentlessly pursued myself and others in comments and scathing posts (of which you were warned). Your behavior in this public forum could only be described as atrocious as you continuously demonstrated a complete lack of courtesy to anyone with whom you had "philosophical differences".

You can deny the things you have said, you can deny your actions, none of this matters anymore, at least not to me. Upon your return you suggested that you wanted to bury the hatchet and I almost bought into it for about 3 minutes. That was until you began lying to me about your past transgressions, denying things that you know damn well that you have said and done. Ultimately that is the one insurmountable "philosophical difference" between us. I know what the word integrity means, you apparently do not.

posted by gomedome on August 20, 2006 at 11:42 PM | link to this | reply

Gomedome…..I certainly don’t understand how holding

a philosophical difference to someone can make one “guilty” of anything. But if that is, as you say, a “transgression”, than I’m openly admissive that I do, indeed, adhere to a belief system that is much the contrary to your own. And certainly my belief system does not include berating others with a constant profusion of vile names, as is your childish habit in this forum.

posted by telemachus on August 20, 2006 at 8:15 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka….please do not misunderstand me. Try to think

of the natural world as distinct from the supernatural world. While the natural world operates under its own volition, it nevertheless can be influenced by intrusions from the supernatural dimension. Think of God only as God makes itself manifest to you through your conscience. God does not require your personification of its attributes. And really Kooka, your constant ravings about my supposed arrogance over you is getting quite old….I have been perfectly nice and respectful to you. I have the utmost of respect for you. Please do understand that, at the very least. I wish you no ill will, only goodness.

posted by telemachus on August 20, 2006 at 8:00 PM | link to this | reply

Odysseus - you can claim innocence all that you want

It is immaterial to me. You will lie yourself out of any transgression that you have committed anyways, so what is the point of arguing about it? I will give you one thing however; After coming back and coming right after Kooka and I (in the manner that you claim that you did not), you have toned it down a bit and have been less of a numbnut than usual. I do have to add one correction here: Kooka said this in comment "......while we are more than willing to just let it all be." he is assuming that I feel this way. Hardly, I will tolerate you if you behave, I will also tone down my own rhetoric if you behave. Don't expect anything more than eventually reaching a state of civility but again if you behave. Keep in mind that the idea of "burying the hatchet" as you put it, is entirely your idea.

posted by gomedome on August 20, 2006 at 6:27 PM | link to this | reply

Ody

Actually you have approached us with insulting concepts that claim that we were so unable to beak away form your ideas, because they were just so great (Which they were not, and still are not) that you misunderstood much of what we were saying about them.

You came back here with an ego that was monstrous and were unable to grasp anything we said that did not agree with your ideas. You kept up the tradition you started of trying to guilt us by claiming that if we did not say you were right we were immoral. You continued to lie about using you made up word as a trick to get people to agree to you concept of God.

You may not have directly gone after us, but your attitude was the insult and is still most of the problem. You have implies a whole lot about our character by what you have said without saying it directly. You claim you do not feel superior, yet with every word you write you show you do and you over state it. You try to paint us as attacking and aggressive, while we are more than willing to just let it all be. You keep coming back and saying the same stuff that bothered us a year ago and can not understand why we still are bothered by it.

It would be one thing if you did not sound like a broken record saying the same thing over and over again, refusing to acknowledge when we have already proven you to be mistaken in that concept. If you really want to get somewhere, go somewhere new with your beliefs instead of beating us over the head with the same flawed concepts. It is actually bigger insult to yourself than to us, but it still insults us.

posted by kooka_lives on August 20, 2006 at 5:34 PM | link to this | reply

boy

interesting

posted by Xeno-x on August 20, 2006 at 5:31 PM | link to this | reply

Ody

So you admit the Bible is wrong?

Your concept of God actually had no hand in the direct creation of the Earth?

Your concept of God here is actually nothing more than nature and is not sentiently active in the universe or truly aware of us.

At which point it really could not be called God or a god according to any concept we know, unless you wish to call us gods in respect to our blood cells.

Such a being need not be worship or even worried about.

What you are describing here seems to go away form the idea of a perfect loving being that is all goodness, but instead defends the idea of all being neutral including this concept of God. Unless you wish to claim the random forces of nature are either good or evil when no intention is upon them to begin with.

Seriously , you just basically showed that your concept of God is much less than what you were claiming it to be. You worship nature, mindless and neutral in its fullness.

While this ends up making much more sense than any other version of God you have presented in the past, it is not God or a god, just nature and the basic physics of the universe.

posted by kooka_lives on August 20, 2006 at 5:19 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka……When Kooka thinks of the creation,

he is obviously thinking of someone sitting down and molding every single thing, like a child making things out of clay. I see it quite differently. It is easy for me to envision God as simply a catalyst for the initiation of cosmic (and ultimately biological) actions that allowed for the world to form. From this stand point, the geological formations that you praise could still have been randomly fashioned in a created world. Wouldn’t you have to agree?

And Kooka, I will certainly look forward to your future post about imaginations, I think that will prove quite interesting.

posted by telemachus on August 20, 2006 at 1:36 PM | link to this | reply

Gomedome……I have certainly not come after you

and Kooka. I returned after eight months to find you still here bad mouthing me, and you know that is a fact. But, nevertheless, I have been very amicable to you since my return and intend to continue treating you that way, with the utmost of respect. I wish you no harm. What you see as “garbled nonsense” is quite intelligible to myself and many others. Perhaps it seems as such to you because you are closing your mind to it? But, be that as it may, you certainly need to see that I have only approached you with the truth and only wish goodness for you.

posted by telemachus on August 20, 2006 at 1:28 PM | link to this | reply

Ody

So are you admitting that the world was formed through random means? That the true beauty of nature is not due to "God's hands" but to it just being there?

You really seem to want God to be both ways. He created everything but has done nothing active in creation. He could have just created the Big Bang and let it all go from there, with no active hand what-so-ever in the formation of mankind, Earth, the Sun or the solar system. By that logic it really makes no sense at all for god to have any emotional attachment to us.

Why did I not talk about how God ONLY EXISTS in people's imaginations? Because that seemed a little off topic and the idea also appealed to me for a future post.

posted by kooka_lives on August 20, 2006 at 12:28 PM | link to this | reply

Odysseus -- you seem to constantly forget something

I don't back down from the things that I have said as you do. I don't develop temporary amnesia to escape things that I have said as you do either. "Propensity" suggests a natural ongoing tendency.....find one other example of my gossiping,... just one. ...but the real kicker in your comment is your flatly denying things that are true. You did come back to Blogit with some sort of plan that you were going to go after Kooka and I.....Neither of us expect any form of honesty to ever come from you, so deny this all you want. We have both suggested that your comments, specifically the way you respond with garbled nonsense is a deliberate attempt to be disruptive. Is this false? If it is false then I have to admit my error when I made the statement that "no one could possibly be that stupid" ......maybe someone can be.

posted by gomedome on August 20, 2006 at 10:01 AM | link to this | reply

Gomedome…..you have a natural propensity for gossip

and for the promotion of untruths. The things you have said here are simply false.

posted by telemachus on August 20, 2006 at 5:46 AM | link to this | reply

Kooka ….. there is nothing about creation that would

prevent the randomness of geologic formations. As I’ve mentioned to you before, the creation is not robotic. It clearly has a movement and direction of its own. To see this will require for you to envision God in a way that is beyond the storybook personifications that you have developed. I wonder why you did not include the mention of our ability to imagine God, as you alluded to below? Randomness becomes thwarted when imagination takes over. When we imagine God, we inflict direction into our actions and alter them from random, misguided events into systematic progress.

posted by telemachus on August 20, 2006 at 5:44 AM | link to this | reply

Kooka, I agree with your postulation that Earth is beautiful of its own

accord w/out resorting to myth to explain landscapes (and everything else). What I don't agree with is your calling the formation of grottos (and grand canyons, and snow capped volcanoes and eroded headlands) random. There is nothing random in the laws of physics, at least not until you hit the extremes where the edges start to bend. But we don't approach that realm very often on Earth.

And in total agreement with you, it just sort of pisses me off when somebody scoffs at the whole geologic time scale and says the earth is just a few thousand years old.

posted by FreeManWalking on August 19, 2006 at 7:19 AM | link to this | reply

kooka_lives - I came to that realization early - I know this man

I could not be less impressed than I was during his brief return. Completely unimpressed. The "winding up bible thumpers" part of my blog description had him attempt to play what he thought was the same game but it sadly was not. His version of the game involves entirely too much shallow deception. It is little league, kindergarten stuff. Through the fog of his games he has demonstrated for me that the opinion I expressed about him in comment still stands. (the comment in the blog that started all of this) ......".....His religious beliefs have effectively rendered him a moron." .........did I call it or what?

posted by gomedome on August 18, 2006 at 8:58 PM | link to this | reply

gome

I know. The stress he was causing by not listening to what I was saying and just making so many ignorant implications just was a level of annoying I still find it hard to believe any person could achieve.

Dealing with him drained so much of my energy and made me not want to blog.

I can debate and when it is reasonable and respectful I have no problem with it. But when you are dealing with a person who really just does not want to even try to grasp what it is you are saying, it is just such a waste of time and energy.

Why try to start up debated filled conversations if you do not want to actual debate but instead just want to push how perfectly correct everything about you is? He really seemed to have no desire at all to listen or think about anything that was not part of his perfect concept of how it all should be.

posted by kooka_lives on August 18, 2006 at 12:44 PM | link to this | reply

kooka_lives- this is off topic but ....

we sure had some fun a few days back.

I really got the impression that our wannabe nemesis didn't have his heart into being his usual caustic self. Or he was rusty in terms of religious debate but in any case, the same old contentions came up. You never did answer one of the questions/challenges he posed. What are you doing to promote morality? This question cracked me up, as if one individual can do anything meaningful to promote morality within society other than getting their own house in order and instilling good moral values in their children. Mind you, I had my answer ready: ".... to promote morality I say no to all women." I found the entire experience of his brief return entertaining