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It is entirely possible that John of Patmos was a gifted storyteller as
opposed to being a delusional psychic/oracle. My cousin told me once that the Book of Revelations was the first science fiction book ever written (although purists today would gripe and say he meant fantasy).
posted by
saul_relative
on July 19, 2006 at 9:40 PM
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back to revelation
the book that is,
also called apocalypse.
the entire thing is metaphor -- things written there mean something else.
nothing can be taken literally.
it was written during a period of heavy Roman persecution. It was written to give people hope.
all described therein applies to that time none else, except when we can see an obvious parallel between the Roman Empire and governments of today.
actually the guy was a genius, creating such fantastic images.-- but also using the metaphor to make a point, whether about human beings, or about the conditions of the time (four horsemen, the "beast" made up of four beasts, the horns and hills, referring to Rome, and the other things.
and the basic thing -- he has to couch his writing in metaphor so as not to be labelled as a traitor to Rome and thus taken out -- so words could not be what they really were -- but were images that many would understand, but not many beyond a certain circle.
posted by
Xeno-x
on July 19, 2006 at 1:55 PM
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That's okay, Xeno-x. There are billions who agree with you, right along
with plenty of Christians, as you've mentioned. Placing stock in the delusional ramblings of a crazed hermit seems a bit like taking religious advice from Ozzy Osbourne, famed heavy metal Christian.
posted by
saul_relative
on July 18, 2006 at 9:48 PM
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well lets see
mine is one of the ten biggest
many of the ten biggest don't hold stock in Revelation.
posted by
Xeno-x
on July 18, 2006 at 2:07 PM
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The feeling is quite mutual, TAPS. Everyone in my family, almost all of
my acquaintances and associates, and nearly all of my co-workers have been and continue to be religious to one degree or another. I am vigilant against offense, respecting their right to their beliefs.
posted by
saul_relative
on July 17, 2006 at 9:19 PM
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I like you anyway, Saul_relative. LOL. Keep writing.
posted by
TAPS.
on July 17, 2006 at 8:38 AM
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Either way probably wouldn't matter, TAPS. Given the ability to read and
critically examine, you would probably end up with the belief system that you have now, given the familial and peer influences that determine your way of thinking. You are an intelligent person and I respect your right to beleive as you do. However, I steer clear of churches out of principal, being totall anti-authoritarian, anti-organized religion, and anti-superstitious. I fear I do not have "faith", and, in the end, that is the missing component I would need most to participate.
posted by
saul_relative
on July 17, 2006 at 8:30 AM
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saul_relative, I'm afraid that I would not spend much time at a church that did not mention Armegedon now and then or spend some time on the things written down by poor old "delusional" John of Patmos.
posted by
TAPS.
on July 17, 2006 at 7:03 AM
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Jane's Opinion: Isn't that the Mary Magdalen story? Didn't Jesus
eventually marry her or something, have a few kids, cause the crusades, and end up being unconvincingly portrayed by Willem Dafoe in
The Last Temptation of Christ?
posted by
saul_relative
on July 17, 2006 at 6:54 AM
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Now, Xeno, be sensitive. Just because John of Patmos was a delusional
hermit doesn't mean that what he "saw" isn't binding on today's superstitious.
posted by
saul_relative
on July 17, 2006 at 6:50 AM
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Hey, TAPS, let's go technicality and say that even the mention of
Armageddon counts...
posted by
saul_relative
on July 17, 2006 at 6:48 AM
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But Xenox, most
"regular church[es] of the christian [sic] religion" still teach on the book of Revelation. Or perhaps I should say most Bible believing churches! It's churches such as the one you attend that, sadly, is losing members right and left while the churches that still preach the Bible in its entirety are gaining members.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on July 16, 2006 at 7:16 PM
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Actually, no. The sermon today was on Luke's gospel.
Luke 7:36-48 -- "Now one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, so he went to the Pharisee's house and reclined at the table. When a woman who had lived a sinful life in that town learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee's house, she brought an alabaster jar of perfume, and as she stood behind him at his feet, weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them. When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is -- that she is a sinner." Jesus answered him . . . "Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven -- for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."
The gist of the Pastor's sermon was that of reaching out to people one would think of as being less popular or desirable or from a different culture. The Pharisees of Jesus' day were too proud to hang out with women, let alone a "sinner." But Jesus accepted her, loved her and forgave her. In many ways it was a humbling sermon, since Christians are frequently accused of NOT reaching out to certain folk, or not associating with certain people.
Yeah, I know, that was more than you asked for, but it certainly was NOT an Armageddon sermon!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on July 16, 2006 at 7:14 PM
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no none here
i go to a regular church of the christian religion
everybody here knows its a lot of bull crap anyway.
posted by
Xeno-x
on July 16, 2006 at 12:46 PM
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I had to laugh, Saul_relative, although its not a laughing matter. Do you mean the whole sermon or does it count if the sermon was really about something else but mention of such was brought into it?
posted by
TAPS.
on July 16, 2006 at 11:08 AM
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