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i need your help gomey
justi mentioned that she posted regarding the cross in san diego -- or whatever I've search for her post (she says you commented) and haven't found it.
posted by
Xeno-x
on June 30, 2006 at 6:48 AM
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hebrew/chaldee souirce word
   |
| Pronunciation Guide |
| heylel {hay-lale'} |
shining one, morning star,
'Helel' describing the king of Babylon
take way Lucifer and what do you have?
appellation for a great king -- a natural appellation.
posted by
Xeno-x
on June 30, 2006 at 6:38 AM
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and onother thing...
sorry, I gotta be more careful with my abbreviations...
posted by
Nautikos
on June 30, 2006 at 5:47 AM
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dg,
excellent post! One tiny quibble (you know me.
): Lucifer actually means 'Bringer of Light' (lucem ferre, the root being 'lux', of course), which the Romans applied to the Morning Star for obvious reasons...
posted by
Nautikos
on June 30, 2006 at 5:44 AM
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Fascinating, Gomedome. You put me in mind of Milton's Paradise Lost,
with your discussion here. I enjoyed the erudite references. Cheers.
posted by
_dave_says_ack_
on June 30, 2006 at 2:30 AM
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this is a very excellent post
even though we totally disagree in matters of spiritual beings and their existance, this was still a pleasure to read.
posted by
calmcantey75
on June 30, 2006 at 1:53 AM
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What I love is that they say witches and pagans worship Satan,
when the large majority doesn't even believe in him.
posted by
Afzal_Sunny7
on June 29, 2006 at 10:29 PM
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The fundies, as you call them..
Poor babies, they have to have someone or something to blame for their poor, empty lives, so they can blame Satan. It's never their fault, they didn't cause the car accident or the cancer or whatever. It wouldn't be quite so bad if they didn't insist that all the rest of us be on the same bandwagon with them. Tell it like it is, man. I don't necessarily agree with everything you say, but what you say has been well thought out and I believe you are sincere and that's all one can expect of anyone. Whether you believe in God, Zeus or the Thunderbird, it's yours and it's legitimate.
posted by
Padoca-Boy
on June 29, 2006 at 10:16 PM
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bandanafish - thank you
It surprises me a bit that you have been on Blogit for 2 1/2 years yet we first meet.
posted by
gomedome
on June 29, 2006 at 7:52 PM
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Wonderful!
This is purely wonderful!
posted by
bandanafish
on June 29, 2006 at 7:41 PM
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ArleyWhite - thank you and did you notice in this blog's comments?
there is not one person attempting to insist that Satan is real.
posted by
gomedome
on June 29, 2006 at 7:36 PM
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Sunnybeach7 - we have seen that here on Blogit a lot
there is a willful blindness that quite often gets to the point of being self induced, or even artificial. Some do not want to see the obvious, they use the "faith " catch phrase to render themselves oblivious.
posted by
gomedome
on June 29, 2006 at 7:34 PM
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TVBlogger -- I wouldn't let my kids be exposed to that stuff
when they were growing up.
The bible thumping in-laws felt it important to slip a few bibles into our house as Christmas gifts. I refused to accept them on the grounds that they were not suitable for children. Since when has stories of murder, vengeance and rape been suitable for children? Not to mention the end times and the icon of this cult being a dead guy nailed to some boards.
posted by
gomedome
on June 29, 2006 at 7:31 PM
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TIMMYTALES - thank you and thanx for stopping bye
posted by
gomedome
on June 29, 2006 at 7:25 PM
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Excellent!
Absolutely excellent!
Arley White
posted by
ArleyWhite
on June 29, 2006 at 6:28 PM
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They will always continue to believe what they want
and have a blind eye to the obvious.
posted by
Afzal_Sunny7
on June 29, 2006 at 1:54 PM
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gomedome
Your comments keep bringing up new thoughts from me. You mentioned the end times being "healthy" for young minds. I remember when I was a kid, probably not even in junior high yet, there was an end-times movie making the rounds in our rural area. I believe it was called, "The Rapture." It was almost mandatory viewing for all believers and I was dragged along to this "healthy" Christian activity. I was traumatized by this vision of the end times for years. My dreams were filled with end of the world scenarios. Ahhhhh good times.
posted by
TVBlogger
on June 29, 2006 at 1:37 PM
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Gome
You researched this very well, nicely written and oh so true.
posted by
TIMMYTALES
on June 29, 2006 at 1:34 PM
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HERE'S AN ITEM YOU MIGHT WANT TO BUY
CLICK HERE
posted by
Xeno-x
on June 29, 2006 at 1:14 PM
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sannhet - thank you
posted by
gomedome
on June 29, 2006 at 12:31 PM
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strat - thank you
Doing a little research before putting a blog to print has two major benefits. First, the blog author reduces the risk of coming off as foolish by actually presenting something fairly accurate and the author also has the chance while researching, to learn something.
posted by
gomedome
on June 29, 2006 at 12:31 PM
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TVBlogger - yeah, the end times, now there's a real healthy message for
young minds.
I don't know about you but I'm pretty well sick of hearing about the mark of the beast and the moronic constructs around it. Sometimes people embarrass themselves with what they are willing not only believe but to proliferate as if it is fact.
posted by
gomedome
on June 29, 2006 at 12:19 PM
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Samhain_Moon - and you know the most amazing thing about those in the East
that do not believe in the devil?
He never manifests himself to them, . . . ever. The only manifestations of demons or similar mythological creatures from the spirit world that are experienced outside of Christianity, are those as predefined and believed to be real by the subject. Can all of this be just coincidence?
posted by
gomedome
on June 29, 2006 at 12:16 PM
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Xeno-x - I think the most surprising thing about these types of things;
is to what lengths those that want it to be true will go to defend their erroneous beliefs. Too many people just shut out all that doesn't support what they want to believe. Some even become hostile towards others for not supporting these erroneous misconceptions.
posted by
gomedome
on June 29, 2006 at 12:09 PM
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Sophistie - I remember the rumor demonstration when we were young kids
in school.
The nun running the class had us all stand around the perimeter of the room and whisper the rumor in the next person's ear. As expected the rumor was non recognizable by the time it got back to the source. The irony here is that this same nun insisted that the bible was the inerrant word of God. She even mentioned the oral history that much of it was drawn from, yet refused in her mind to make the connection between the rumor demonstration and the fallibility of an often edited chronicle.
posted by
gomedome
on June 29, 2006 at 12:05 PM
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Samhain_Moon
i've writtenabout that myself --
god is neutral at best in those passages
posted by
Xeno-x
on June 29, 2006 at 11:42 AM
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Gome -
Well done, as usual!
posted by
sannhet
on June 29, 2006 at 9:37 AM
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This is very well done, Gome.
I did pretty well in Latin in college; I should have thought of that. But you have obviously done your research and your homework, and pretty much constructed a fairly unassailable proof. Something we all rather suspected, but that's a very well-put together summation.
I greatly enjoyed reading this!
posted by
strat
on June 29, 2006 at 8:58 AM
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They did the same thing with Revelation...
Most Bible scholars agree it was not prophecy but could you find that preached in most churches today? A coded diatribe about Nero is now prophecy of the end times complete with the created myths of an anti-Christ and believers being caught up. Boy those "Left Behind" people have cashed in on that myth, haven't they?
posted by
TVBlogger
on June 29, 2006 at 8:46 AM
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GD, the Eastern concept of God (where there is no Devil) as opposed to the Western is that God is the author of both good and evil. There are references to this also in the Western Bible. The Bible says that God is the source of both good and bad, that he makes the sun and the rain to fall on the good and the righeous alike, etc., etc. I did a quick search (I'm late for an appointment) but could not locate the verses I was looking for. If there is some serious challenge to my statements above, perhaps I will look for them this afternoon when I return. On the other hand, I might just ignore the challenge because it doesn't matter what verse I put forth, someone will twist it to mean something else anyway. I'm also reminded of something that one of the characters in 'Out of Africa" said. The villiage or the fields or something were on fire - a real disaster - and he said, "God is happy." Meaning, God does all of this that we experience - good, bad, saintly, evil - he has his reasons. This is the attitude in the East. Have a Blessed day! (oh shit, there I go again - sorry GD). Samhain_Moon
posted by
syzygy
on June 29, 2006 at 7:42 AM
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THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS NOT ON YOU
IT'S ON THOSE WHO INSIST THAT SATAN EXISTS.
I think I mentioned either in a comment or post that "Satan" means "adversary" -- like in Job, or in the Temptation in the Desert -- you see the personification -- sort of a "devil's advocate" (sic) that presents an alternative view as a test -- of alternative options.
And you are correct -- Lucifer has nothing to do with Satan (as is the case with the Garden's serpent) -- there is nothing in scripture connecting the two. However, if you allow this verse to be part of the context and read from verse 4, allowing the entire text a continuation, it is rather obvious that the real subject of this verse is the King of Babylon, with which most scholars agree. And you have to agree that this is continued through verse 22, where Babylon is mentioned again.
Now, pay particular attention to verse 16 "They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, [and] consider thee, [saying, Is] this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;" This says that the author is talking about a man -- not any other worldly being.
supersition has constructed an entire mythology around a mistaken concept.
posted by
Xeno-x
on June 29, 2006 at 6:49 AM
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Thought Provoking
It is true that historical information has been translated and often people add based on their perceptions which is not factual, similar to the gossip line that many were given an example in grade school. The teacher tells the sentence/message to a student, then it is passed on through all students. The message does not return, as it was sent. Many have not gotten that message and some will never! It has to do with the mind and/or the mind set of individuals. Some cannot think above a certain level as in Bloom's Taxonomy! Low level thinkers cannot think on a high level and will argue and think that is where they are for they often are also irrational. You know this, and I have time to write this morning!
posted by
Dr_JPT
on June 29, 2006 at 6:48 AM
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