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LC,
thanks for the comment! To me this is an issue whose importance far outweighs most of the others currently being debated in this forum. People's attention is too narrowly focused on US domestic policies! (Not that the problem of the Mexican invasion isn't important...)
posted by
Nautikos
on July 2, 2006 at 6:29 PM
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Great Post
Naut,
This is one of the most informative blogs on probably the most important topic I've ever read. Maybe I haven't been paying attention to the mass media because they don't have the time or inclination to break it down like this does. The info about Nigeria is the most disturbing to me. I knew about the "clashes" between Christians and Muslims there but this looks really bad. The info about the situation in France was most encouraging. Again, great posting.
posted by
LeRoyCoyote
on July 2, 2006 at 5:41 PM
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Wiley,
thanks for dropping in! Yeah, I know Gwyn Dyer, or at least his writings. I know he's been travelling the world, looking for the bad guys, counting them. He didn't find Osama, but he found all the other guys! I'm so glad that we have Gwyn!
posted by
Nautikos
on June 29, 2006 at 7:59 AM
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MandaLee,
thanks for the flower, hon...
posted by
Nautikos
on June 29, 2006 at 7:56 AM
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Nautikos,
posted by
Amanda__
on June 29, 2006 at 7:43 AM
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Nautikos
Sorry I scared ya, but hey hoss, how else can I learn stuff if the smart folks stop writing.
That was an intersting post, and Gwyn Dyer (I think I spelled his name correcftly) ran a column in the paper here last week that refutes the alarmist view.
He says that there are a total of about 4000 bad guys like Osama, and that's it.
Well, it shouldn't take that long to get rid of them. Problem is the way the cowards fight, behind women, children and hoods.
We have had scary folks before, Nazis, Ku Klux Klan, and they just got worn down. These guys will get worn down too, or nuked.
posted by
WileyJohn
on June 28, 2006 at 7:40 PM
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Lensman,
very nice to 'see' you! You make an interesting observation! I am familiar with that syndrome, but had not thought of applying it to this situation. I am convinced, that certain personality types gravitate to to certain activities, and here we have a situation where violence is sanctioned, even 'sanctified' in a cause that is endorsed by Allah...
posted by
Nautikos
on June 28, 2006 at 6:58 PM
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Nautikos
Very interesting post...and disturbing. After reading it, I can't overlook the similarity between the behaviour of the militant type of Muslim and the symptoms of the narcissistic personality disorder, speaking in general terms. For example, this disorder is most commonly found in males who will point the finger of blame for their troubles at everyone but themselves. They also often view themselves as martyrs. I'm just loosely speculating, of course, but if I'm at all close to the mark, the fact that this is one of the most difficult personality disorders to treat, based as it is in very early childhood, is also cause for concern.
posted by
Lensman
on June 28, 2006 at 1:19 PM
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SilverMoon,
well, who says Blogit bloggers have no influence on the course of events?
posted by
Nautikos
on June 28, 2006 at 6:46 AM
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I chose Green.
I'd be lying if I didn't say that your point of view, as a man, held sway in my decision. So did my mom's, in the end. Otherwise, the vote was almost even. Which is just as well, because my heart was already set on the green, and probably I would have chosen them anyway, in the end.
Thanks for visiting my blog. Considering your topic of choice, I can't imagine what led you to my bit of fluff. I haven't written anything worthwhile in months, and never anything political. But I welcome you any time you chose to visit.
posted by
SilverMoon7
on June 28, 2006 at 1:34 AM
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Jane,
I can think of one little thing we could do, but probably won't: shut down the Islamic religious schools madrassas) in the US and here in Canada, were an unbelievable message of hate is being preached. Take a look at my post 'Islamic Caricatures' from Feb 2 (or Feb 6, can't remember which) for examples.
We just arrested 17 'terrorists-in-training' in the Toronto area a few days ago. With one or two possible exceptions, all home-grown products, just as the subway bombers in London...
posted by
Nautikos
on June 27, 2006 at 7:42 PM
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Corbin,
good question, in other words...dunno. The size and complexity of the problem is staggering.
Things will be getting a lot worse, and I'm not sure it makes sense to add that old familiar standby 'before they get better'. It will come down to a 'clash of cultures', which in the end we are bound to lose because of the demographics...
posted by
Nautikos
on June 27, 2006 at 7:29 PM
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Blanche,
Daniel Pipes is an American journalist who is very much pro-Israel (as am I, by the way), and who specializes in providing information on the Arab world and particularly militant Islam that the mainstream media won't touch. The links provided in his article get you to his site. I don't know very much about Pew.
posted by
Nautikos
on June 27, 2006 at 7:21 PM
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Fascinating survey, Nautikos, thanks for sharing!
In response to Corbin's question -- what do we do about this information -- I think that change is going to need to start with young Arabs. They are taught from a young age to hate the infidels which, as we know, consists of Jews, Christians, Americans and many westerners. Of course I'm generalizing here, but I'm sure we've all seen photos of Palestinian children waving guns and chanting, with their elders "death to ____ " (fill in the blank).
posted by
JanesOpinion
on June 27, 2006 at 7:17 PM
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Really good information.
Now that we have it....what do we do with it? What is the root cause of these feelings? Are they being taught this from an early age? Surely it's not something that they, in mass, have concluded.
I still have to think that it is a result of the "message" of Islam, and the messengers delivering it to the people. In most Muslin countries the education level of the masses is very low. The poverty level is very high? How do they have any hope of escape? Their hope lies in the message provided by the "messengers".
Many see it as their only path to a better life...........
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on June 27, 2006 at 5:46 PM
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Nautikos, what information do you have on the Pew Survey and Daniel Pipes?
I always like to know the inherent bias (and I belive that bias is always inherent in any issue) of the particular group doing the polling when I consider their views. Thsi is very thought-provoking.
posted by
Blanche.
on June 27, 2006 at 5:28 PM
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Silvermoon,
thanks for your visit and the comment. As I have suggested in my other responses, the only way to deal with individuals is on an individual basis! Nonetheless, we cannot disregard findings of the kind reported in Daniel Pipes' report. (By the way, while you as an American might see yourself as part of a minority, your Muslim acquaintances probably see you as part of the majority!
But I have a question for you: what glasses did you finally decide on?
posted by
Nautikos
on June 27, 2006 at 4:35 PM
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Here in Germany, the Turkish-Muslim population, while large, pretty much keeps to itself. I do, however, have a couple of pleasant acquaintance-ships with two or three Muslim women in our neighborhood. As an American in our community, I'm a minority among the minorities, and I wonder sometimes what goes through the minds of these Turkish ladies when they ask where I'm from and I tell them, From America. More than once I've seen smiles falter, which makes me wonder still further what judgment might have flickered across their faces. And then I decide whatever happens between me and the other person (always a woman, in this case) must be based on an individual basis. It would be foolish and ignorant to do otherwise.
posted by
SilverMoon7
on June 27, 2006 at 3:54 PM
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AaronB,
thanks for the visit and the comment! I think people often fail to distinguish between
statistically valid statements about a population and statements made about specific
individuals of that population. ('Population' here is a technical term, and does not refer to what we normally mean by it.)
posted by
Nautikos
on June 27, 2006 at 3:51 PM
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Right in line with what I've seen
This article hit the nail on the head.
You're right to point out not to judge individuals, though, which is a great point. One of the most patriotic Americans I know is an Iraqi immigrant.
posted by
AaronB
on June 27, 2006 at 10:54 AM
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Ariala,
thanks for dropping in! Let me tell you, I do not judge individuals by their religion either. But that's not what this is about. Rather, it is about a survey, about finding out what the prevalent views are among an aggregate of people (a population) who share certain characteristics, in this case a religion. You find out, you tabulate the answers, and you come up with descriptive statistics that can be further analyzed. If you asked Christians, probably 99% of them would tell you they believe in God. (Not all of them! I know of United Church clergy here in Canada who have stated openly that they do not believe in God. That's fine by me, but how they square that with their ministry, let alone their congregation, if they have any, is beyond me!)
These types of surveys are done for many purposes, among other things market research, and if they are done correctly, they give you a very good idea of what a population thinks about any number of issues. But one cannot legitimately and should not base one's judgment of an individual on that type of information.
posted by
Nautikos
on June 27, 2006 at 10:18 AM
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bel 1965
thanks for visiting. In view of the current climate, I can see why this Iraqui would go out of his way to let you know he is a Christian...
posted by
Nautikos
on June 27, 2006 at 9:57 AM
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I try not to judge people by their religion, but by their individual
hearts and convictions.
posted by
Ariala
on June 27, 2006 at 7:58 AM
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Interesting Article
We have an Iraqi man that owns a grocery store here. Me, being me did as I always do when I have concerns, I asked him questions.
One of the first things he made clear was he was not Muslim, he is Christian. I found that an odd statement other than the fact that he thought I would be prejudice. My husband has shopped in that store in uniform and yet, he seemed worried that I would judge him. In some way this explains some of his concerns to me.
posted by
bel_1965
on June 27, 2006 at 7:57 AM
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