Go to Religion in the Modern World
- Add a comment
- Go to The scam of Exorcism
posted by
A-and-B
on June 15, 2006 at 2:02 PM
| link to this | reply
David2006 - mortal deduction? - now that's funny
It implies that there is an immortal deduction to refute it. No one can disagree however that if the word "evil" has a true meaning, it is imbodied by those who would break a sacred trust with children that are in their charge.
posted by
gomedome
on June 15, 2006 at 1:54 PM
| link to this | reply
Interesting Mortal Deduction.
Demon Possession does not appear the same today as then. Becuase we don't shock as easily then. The real demon possessions are those running around pretending to be preachers and clergymen and lovable old farts that wear the collar and molest kids.
posted by
David2006
on June 15, 2006 at 1:30 PM
| link to this | reply
Xeno-x - one thing that you will find about asking a member of the catholic
church about their religion, is the disparity of the answers you will get.
People don't realize that a church that is global and has been subject to every world culture imagineable, has within it, countless minor divisions and sects. Even though this church has a central governing body and its teachings may be unified on paper, practical reality is another matter.
posted by
gomedome
on June 15, 2006 at 12:56 PM
| link to this | reply
LoisLane907 - right on and welcome to Blogit
My experience with exorcism is that I have never seen or heard of a real one but I have seen the effects of believing in such things. Back in the 60's I was a ward of a catholic mission school. At the time, a meeting of all of the Bishops in the world was taking place at the Vatican in Rome. One of the topics of discussion was whether or not to continue teaching students in catholic school systems about exorcism. The decision was that it would be stricken from the curriculum of the few schools that were still teaching it to students. Instead making the knowledge of it entirely the preserve of trained "professionals" within the church. Most people at our mission school took this decision in stride except the nuns. To a person they felt that knowledge of Satan's ability to possess people was the last line of defence that the world's population had against his powers. When they announced the decision, one of the young student teacher nuns fell on the floor in a trembling catatonic heap. She was so overcome with fear that she could not move. (all of this in front of 10 and 11 year old kids) but then it got even crazier. The other nuns determined that it was not fear alone that had overcome the young lady but Satan himself, because after all, the decision had given him free reign over the entire planet. It's a powerful concept that sometimes the human mind is no match for.
posted by
gomedome
on June 15, 2006 at 12:36 PM
| link to this | reply
cantey_1975 - they not only still perform the ceremony they teach
a training course at the Vatican on the subject.
posted by
gomedome
on June 15, 2006 at 12:23 PM
| link to this | reply
Please don't laugh at me or my grandma
When I was a kid, my southern, formerly Catholic and still devout grandmother went around praying for my uncle, whom she claimed was possessed by the devil himself. This sounded good since I was five and my grandmother made the best macaroni & cheese ever. How could she be wrong or misguided?
He would have conversations with himself and unknown others, cursing and laughing all the way. He would live in the NYC streets for weeks at a time, eating and sleeping only God knows what or where.
So as a child, who went to church every week, it seemed reasonable to me that some evil, invisible force had taken over my poor uncle. I spent years being afriad of him and not wanting to be alone with him. The sad part is, he never hurt a fly.
Anyway, it was only with maturity and perspective that I realized my poor uncle was schizophrenic. And when I pointed out this fact, (the docs had realized this too and medicated him or it) my grandmother said mental disease are excuses for a Godless world to explain away things they don't understand. Not to mention how disappointed she was in me for being able to think of such blasphemy.
With so many religious beliefs rooted in simply faith and not intellect, it's no wonder that people like my grandmother can't see it the other way around. The religious use a vengeful God and the devil to explain fairly mundane things that can be fixed with a pill.
posted by
LoisLane907
on June 15, 2006 at 11:46 AM
| link to this | reply
cantey1975
there are Catholics on Blogit who might be able to answer your questin.
posted by
Xeno-x
on June 15, 2006 at 11:19 AM
| link to this | reply
gomedome
I will find a place to post it, maybe later when I have a little more time, and I will send a link then when it's complete.
posted by
Afzal_Sunny7
on June 15, 2006 at 11:08 AM
| link to this | reply
gome
do you know if the Catholic church still perform exorcisms?
posted by
calmcantey75
on June 15, 2006 at 11:07 AM
| link to this | reply
Sunnybeach7 - that would make an interesting blog posting
posted by
gomedome
on June 15, 2006 at 11:03 AM
| link to this | reply
gomedome
I know (have had the experience of knowing) someone who to the best of my knowledge was possesed.
I didn't believe she was possesed by Satan though, even though I still believed in Satan back then, but possesed of a different entity.
I could go into detail if you like, but it may be quite lengthy.
posted by
Afzal_Sunny7
on June 15, 2006 at 11:01 AM
| link to this | reply
Justi - I'm going to address both of your comments
Yes, it only stands to reason that we should examine alternatives to causal factors when they are beyond our understanding. (that's not quite what you said but I think I have captured your meaning) and I have to agree that of the heinous crimes you use as examples, that there is something abnormal about the perpetrators. But back to that which is beyond our understanding. When it is accepted that all manifestations and experiences of the supernatural and/or paranormal are derived solely from the human mind, an entire avenue of plausible explanations opens up. All visions of religious icons and all experiences with demons have a common thread. That being: the subject experiencing these things must have a prior knowledge of the entity to which they are experiencing. There is not one instance ever in the history of our species of a vision or manifestation of a specifically defined entity (the word "specific" is important here) preceding this knowledge. My point is that for some of us, the answers to what we do not know or understand is not necessarily found within the teachings of any religion.
posted by
gomedome
on June 15, 2006 at 10:27 AM
| link to this | reply
sannhet - and it apparently helps if you keep repeating the words
sort of like spamming for miracles.
posted by
gomedome
on June 15, 2006 at 10:14 AM
| link to this | reply
Sannet
Sannet
It is amazing but I have the ability to read what you said. I also have the ability to be sorry for your lack of understanding. When you don't understand something is it not possible there is something beyond what you know?
posted by
Justi
on June 15, 2006 at 9:44 AM
| link to this | reply
gomedome
I don't believe in devil possession. I do believe in deamons and I believe that there are people who do things knowingly as in an addictive form who are controled by evil (Satan). Preachers or Priest who molest children are those people. Pedophiles and others who do things regardless of the the consequences are guided by something evil and abnormal.
posted by
Justi
on June 15, 2006 at 9:42 AM
| link to this | reply
Gome -
Didntcha know that gibberish is all those invisible folks can understand?
posted by
sannhet
on June 15, 2006 at 9:41 AM
| link to this | reply
strat - we've got the Susquatch up her in Canada
and there are still a few folks that describe encounters with it. Not one credible picture exists however.
posted by
gomedome
on June 15, 2006 at 9:33 AM
| link to this | reply
Yeah, Gome, that's pretty tongue in cheek.
Granted, I find alien abduction a little more believable than some other ideas honked over the years, even though it is a little bit of stretch to try to visualize the existence of a race of super-intelligent, star ship building proctologists from outer space.
You must remember, I live in an area of the country where, despite many advances in technology, science, society, etc., a lot of people -- from the former county sheriff to several prominent ministers -- still believe in a giant Lizard Man who allegedly lives in the swamps not too far from here.
posted by
strat
on June 15, 2006 at 9:29 AM
| link to this | reply
strat - is that tongue in cheek?
I have noticed that alien abductions are on the decline but there could be a few other reasons for this as well. The aliens themselves could have just given up in frustration ; ; ; like "why are we wasting our time with these earthling losers?"
posted by
gomedome
on June 15, 2006 at 9:08 AM
| link to this | reply
If you notice,
ever since the event of digital cameras and hand held cam corders, we don't have nearly as many alien abductions, either.
posted by
strat
on June 15, 2006 at 9:04 AM
| link to this | reply
TVBlogger - I've heard stories of people speaking in foreign languages
and simular things.
Eventually we will learn how this is possible. At the moment, the best explanation that I have heard is the passing of passive electronic encoding within the genetic composition of our species. Laying dorment for years until some unknown stimulant causes it to manifest itself.
posted by
gomedome
on June 15, 2006 at 8:50 AM
| link to this | reply
Nope...
never met anyone who was possessed by the devil. I did have a friend who decided to teach himself to channel without guidance and got more than he bargained for. I don't know if he was being controlled by an entity or perhaps he was having mental issues, but I heard a man I know who doesn't speak a word of Japanese, sing a child's song in Japanese followed by a little girl's giggle. That was a bit freaky... but the devil? Nope.
posted by
TVBlogger
on June 15, 2006 at 8:36 AM
| link to this | reply