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White-Cossack,
Interesting view and question?? I am not the person that should be asked the questions! I WOULD ALREADY HAVE BUSH I and II under charges for crimes against humanity! Stop with the 9/11 connection! I have heard all the rationale and am tired of it! Let us deal with the murder and mayhem by a military gone madd! I do not feel sorry for the troops I do not support the troops and I feel that my reasoning is valid! Hitler gave us a very good "Blue Print" on how armies should not engage civilians! If American involvment last another ten years America will do him one better!
posted by
Glennb
on May 30, 2006 at 10:02 PM
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Change due to enlightenment
Well said.
Bush I and II did indeed order the invasion of Iraq. Bush I to supposedly liberate Kuwait, and Bush II under the guise of his "fantasy war on terror" (your quote). Personally I believe the second Iraq campaign to be unjustified from its inception, although there is an arguable point as to the necessity of removing Saddam from power.
I have been studying "Terrorism" for a little over ten years now, trying to understand the causes, effects and rationale behind it. That however is a topic for a different discussion.
I would like to address this statement if I may, quote:
Living in other Cultures is not supposed to change you, unless you have a total and supremist view of your "white American-ness"! Otherwise we are all stuck on this Planet together!
unquote:
Personally I believe that Living In as opposed to "visiting/transiting" other cultures is supposed to change you as a person. One does not have to have a "supremist view" to have a biased or bigoted worldview. Each culture has its own built in bias, it is in the overcoming of that bias through the searching and accepting true factual information and personal life experiences that an individual changes and hopefully grows. It is from the changing of Individual Opinions one person at a time, across all Races, Cultures and Religions that we as individuals and as peoples become enlightened and become greater than themselves.
Politcally speaking, a country's leader can not act alone. To point a finger and say "Bush" did this is not accurate. When 9-11 occurred Bush was given a mandate by The Government of the USA, The House and Senate both Republican and Democratic parties voted and gave him the authority to pursue his "War on Terror" and to use every means at his disposal to execute that war. Our governmental system of checks and balances was fully behind and empowered the President to do what he ordered done. Those same checks and balances are now demanding an accounting, it is the way our government works.
In closing I would like to ask a question of you, where does your view of "White-American-ness" come from?
posted by
white-cossack
on May 30, 2006 at 2:07 PM
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White-Cossack,
You have stated your case very well here! And you should not be offended by my critique of your life! I am certainly not offended by yours of mine! America invaded Iraq! I am as offended by other's interpretation of why Bush chose to become a war criminal, as I am by his lame attempts to link Iraq to his fantasy "war on terror"!
Living in other Cultures is not supposed to change you, unless you have a total and supremist view of your "white American-ness"! Otherwise we are all stuck on this Planet together!
posted by
Glennb
on May 30, 2006 at 9:48 AM
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Disdain?
And what do you call a life?
My time in service and the experiences there gave me an appreciation for HISTORY, POLITICS, ECONOMICS, CULTURAL DIFFERENCES, and CULTURAL BIAS, RELIGIOUS/SPIRITUAL GROWTH just to name a few Direct Changes.
No one made me sign up after my first enlistment. I got to go to places that most people in the USA only read about or see pictures of. I lived in different cultures and have had the pleasure of talking with learned men and women in a various countries and from totally different cultural backgrounds, on a varity of issues that related to their life experiences. Those conversations made me reevaluate many "preconcieved" ideas and thoughts.
I have seen enough of "Man's inhumanity to Man" to make one weep. For you to totally discount my life experiences because of my military service shows me only that you have a totally biased and bigoted worldview and that your are unwilling or perhaps unable to concieve the thought that the individuals in and later out of uniform are incapable of independent thought.
I am a published author, a published poet, an artist, a musician. I have a novel coming out in the next year with Tor Books and one under consideration with Ballantine. In addition to being a father, and grandfather I do volunteer service in my community and as a "time clock job" I am a 911 dispatcher and have worked in that field for the last five years. The number of "souls" of every race and religious orientation that I have assisted literally numbers in the thousands.
For you to totally disregard my life experiences without knowing anything at all about who I am and what I do to help my fellow man, is just plain ignorant.
If you want to have a rational discussion I am willing to do so. Being human and of obviously different philosophical views, we may not agree with one another however if we are willing to consider things/opinions beyond our own worldview then we can both learn from the experience.
posted by
white-cossack
on May 30, 2006 at 2:40 AM
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White-cossack,
Your years of "military experience" and you attribute my disdain for the Bush, Cheney, Blair, Thatcher, legacy to "Leftist Media Hype"! 22 years of military service to me means you had no "real" life for 22 years! So it qualifies you for nothing! Especially an understandng of global realities!
By the way if good "ole" Bush 1 had gone into Baghdad in Bush war 1, would the outcome be different? And do you think America "got it like that"?
posted by
Glennb
on May 29, 2006 at 9:31 AM
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Reference your History is a lost Memory Post
To be precise a rant is : To speak in loud, violent, or extravagant language, also to talk in a Declamatory and or bombastic manner (definition is from Websters Pocket Dictionary)
I believe in rereading your post my description of it is correct.
When you posted to me, in your response you made a twofold comment I would like to address.
quote:
You left some very well crafted comments that I feel are a bit too slanted to media hype. No one knows how many human souls were lost in the two bombing campaigns against Iraqi humanity! Both were unnecessary and, I think, acts of cowardice by a powerful Military Industrial Complex!
unquote.
First and foremost MY Opinions are MY OWN. They are drawn from 22 years of military service, and from 50 years of Actual Personal Life Experience. If you want to consider them slanted toward "media hype" that is your perception not mine. If you have read either my poetry or my other posts you would see that I am not "politically correct" in almost any of my postings, simply because my personal life experience has given me different world view. Media Hype has no more value to me than the stuff I clean out of my cat's litterbox.
Second, while the USA does not have an actual tally of how many human souls were lost during two bombing campaigns against Iraq, I can assure you that the Iraqi's know full and well how many troops they lost. If the bombing campaign for Desert Storm/Desert Shield had not been so effective the USA and its Allies would have suffered tremendous losses in troops on the ground. What I still find aggravating is that under Bush I, we could have taken down Saddam then, instead of stopping within view of Bagdad and playing political games and eventually finding ourselves in the current conflict which is quickly becoming a Religious War between the "Industrialized West and The Fundamentalist Muslim States". It is now a cultural and religious conflict between two totally different societies with totally different world views with mindsets literally centuries apart.
In closing, the bombing campaign saved US and Allied troops lives, whether you like it or not is immaterial, war is not pretty, killing is seldom politically correct, and goes far beyond the interests of the "Military Industrial Complex". War is an extension of Dipolmatic Policy (right or wrong) and for the soldier on the ground it means you do whatever is necessary to make sure the bodies getting stuffed into body bags belong to the enemy. If you chose to view the bombing campaigns as unnecessary, and acts of cowardice, that is your opinion. For myself I consider that opinion to be fully - leftist media hype.
posted by
white-cossack
on May 29, 2006 at 1:54 AM
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