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Azur, please don't get too koi.
posted by
_dave_says_ack_
on May 11, 2006 at 9:41 AM
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Blackcat30
I do understand that feeling of having dealt with too much of this and sometimes we feel more generous with our empathy than other times although as I said in the post I try never to reveal it. It is because appetites are so poor at this time that it is important to put food and drink in front of people so that at least they have something, even a little
posted by
Azur
on May 11, 2006 at 2:39 AM
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I often feel a little bit too experienced in this area. My empathy varies
with the situation also.... but when I sense real pain from the grief stricken, at times, I can't help but carry that pain home with me. I'm trying to learn not to be so open to it, but it can be very difficult.
Food and drink is always good to offer... but as you know, sometimes no one has much of an appetite.
posted by
-blackcat
on May 10, 2006 at 6:00 PM
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Frankenkitty
I think it is OK because people should feel free to cry
posted by
Azur
on May 10, 2006 at 4:58 PM
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I always cry, even
if I'm not related to the person. I wonder if me crying offends those in pain? Like, what right do I have to look so pitiful when it is they who are grieving? I can't help it though, I'm just an emotional basketcase. That was a nice gesture with the drinks, I would have appreciated it. Take care
posted by
Flumpystalls3000
on May 10, 2006 at 4:24 PM
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posted by
Ariala
on May 10, 2006 at 2:21 PM
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Brettnik
Yes I think we may be quite similar in that
posted by
Azur
on May 10, 2006 at 2:00 PM
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Medusa, thanks.
I agree that it is a particularly brutal moment and I didn't like that the son was left standing to the side at that point
posted by
Azur
on May 10, 2006 at 1:59 PM
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I often wonder why I feel that way, too. I really feel for the living and
their loss, but I don't feel much at a funeral other than that. I guess I have sort of a "these things happen" and "people do die" thing that keeps me from taking deaths, even in my own family, to heart. I've only really cried about death a couple times, and for very personal reasons. I guess I worry that I feel nothing too often and that others see callousness in that when what I really believe it is is acceptance. Is that perhaps how it is for you?
posted by
brettnik
on May 10, 2006 at 1:52 PM
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Hello Azur.....Death is an intriguing and frightening topic....
Everyone deals with it on different plateaus...I think you were great in your ways of consolation. Lowering the casket on one you love is a brutal experience in life. Each death is unique in its own way and an important part of the big picture. I liked this post and its sincerity.
posted by
MedusaNextDoor
on May 10, 2006 at 1:47 PM
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Muser
Thanks.
It is so sad and it would break my heart to go through that.
It is many years since my father died but I still miss him.
posted by
Azur
on May 10, 2006 at 1:29 PM
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_Uncle Dave thanks so much
I know this is not an easy topic for you right now. I think people are touched when others reach out to them no matter how clumsy the attempt. I know too that some people tie themselves in knots wanting to speak.
Re the
I was being a Koi. I am much better versed in these matters than I let on. However it is true to say that many English beers do look flat to start
posted by
Azur
on May 10, 2006 at 1:23 PM
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Malcolm
Thanks for that. Although if you saw me in my every day capacity you might review that
posted by
Azur
on May 10, 2006 at 1:18 PM
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Spitfire70
Thanks, I know you are not having an easy time right now
posted by
Azur
on May 10, 2006 at 1:16 PM
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Fionajean, I wasn't worried if they thought I got it wrong
I wanted to do the best for thing. Funnily enough the small beer was my gut instinct but it felt mean. Sometimes small is best.
I agree that people should not follow a presribed formula although once in a while you meet someone who has been left to go one way when a little gentle encouragement may have helped to steer them a better way
posted by
Azur
on May 10, 2006 at 1:15 PM
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Hmmmm Majroj
posted by
Azur
on May 10, 2006 at 1:10 PM
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Wiley, thank you
posted by
Azur
on May 10, 2006 at 1:05 PM
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Whacky, sometimes it's what people need isn't it?
particularly people who don't have someone at home to hug
posted by
Azur
on May 10, 2006 at 12:59 PM
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Una01, sometimes I really have to work at it
I mean my thoughts are in the right place more or less but it's a huge effort to take any action.
posted by
Azur
on May 10, 2006 at 12:58 PM
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Azur, this is a very nicely written post on a very sad subject. I, too, am
so sad for the parents of the infant...it is not normal...not "a right and good thing" that a child dies before his parents... I am very sorry for your loss. My mother died seven years ago, and I still miss her.
posted by
muser
on May 10, 2006 at 8:29 AM
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In a difficult way, Azur, I enjoyed these thoughts.
The accuracy of description is what lets it settle right in where it needs to go for me as a reader. Pinpoint on action, dialogue, emotion, thought process, reflection.
The judgement of what is right on a day like this, whether it be words or actions, can never ever be a perfect judgement. You do what you feel is right for whichever person you are attempting to comfort. And if you judge it wrong, they don't judge you back as a wrongdoer, only as someone who cared enough to reach out.
Grief is an unfathomable beast. I always recall the play Journey's End where Raleigh condemns Stanhope for his apparent lack of grief over the death of Osborne. Stanhope's response taught me that grief works differently in different people.
I could rattle on. But I'll stop.
One last comment though: you clearly have not drunk enough of a variety of English beers. I will have to educate you on that score.
posted by
_dave_says_ack_
on May 10, 2006 at 8:20 AM
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You are clearly
a very caring person and I'm proud to be in contact with you.
posted by
malcolm
on May 10, 2006 at 6:10 AM
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The question to ask as a personal antidote is...
If you could manage the activity after you died, what would you want?
posted by
majroj
on May 10, 2006 at 5:59 AM
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Azur, great post.
Thanks for sharing and sorry for your loss. You were obviously a big help to that grieving family.
posted by
SpitFire70
on May 10, 2006 at 2:57 AM
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Grief is such a personal thing
I think it's hard to know exactly what to do. I wouldn't worry about getting the beer thing right - chances are she'll only remember you were kind to her anyway. Personally, when my grandparents and father died, I didn't want to talk about it or discuss it, etc. I didn't go to the funerals and went to school as usual. As I said, everyone is different.
posted by
fionajean
on May 10, 2006 at 1:12 AM
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Majroj, some black humor I see
Always welcome.
No, this woman was incredibly discreet. Few people would have realised. She told me that did all her crying at home before sleeping but when the coffin was lowered the flood came
posted by
Azur
on May 9, 2006 at 10:54 PM
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It may be cold and callous, but I can't abide wailing.
Sure, one or two is ok, but when it gets to be a contest, I hate it. And jabbering. And throwing about of the torso and maybe even beating on people with fists. Hate it.
Measured grief and contemplation are signs of maturity and grace.
posted by
majroj
on May 9, 2006 at 10:27 PM
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Azur
Here,s a hug my friend.
posted by
WileyJohn
on May 9, 2006 at 9:51 PM
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A hug is best when words fail you!
You done good!
posted by
Whacky
on May 9, 2006 at 7:57 PM
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Azur, you are already caring and empathetic enough.
posted by
una01
on May 9, 2006 at 7:39 PM
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Oh, and btw, Azur, when you get a minute, could you look over my draft
if you wouldn't mind, and see what you think. I will, of course, edit for typos.
posted by
Blanche.
on May 9, 2006 at 5:01 PM
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Azur,
That is why I took on the persona of Blanche DuBois in the beginning because, well you know her famous last words. The kindness of strangers is, imho, one of the strongest arguments in favor of the existence of God, a spirit of lovingkindness towards one to whom one has no ties and reaps no benefit by being so caring, seems to me somehow to come from another source.
posted by
Blanche.
on May 9, 2006 at 4:59 PM
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Blanche01, it was hard for the son because
he was left standing out with the other mourners, when he should have been nearer. I think at that moment one doesn't want to be standing among a crowd. It should be private.
It's amazing sometimes that people one hardly knows can help so much. I think people are kind to neighbors in the way that they would someone to be kind their own family at such times
posted by
Azur
on May 9, 2006 at 4:49 PM
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Thoughtless people are everywhere, Azur,
She may have been too upset to think, but I think your kindness probably went a long way to making a difficult situation easier. I was with my mother last fall when my stepfather died, and I saw how badly shaken she was, how much it meant to her that her new neighbors came and brought food and offered sympathy and support and genuine offers of help in assisting her with the house. It meant so much to her, and to me.
I just tried to keep the coffee, cake and beer flowing. I don't think to this day she has a clear memory of that day. Someone needed to be there to keep her moving and not just sitting and breaking down. That, I believe, is what wakes are for, to comfort the bereaved and let them know people care.
posted by
Blanche.
on May 9, 2006 at 4:07 PM
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Blanche01, it always surprises me that people don't think of the basics
The other thing that shocked me was when a family friend sat herself in the front row at the burial leaving the son to find a seat elsewhere. I know she was upset but it wasn't right. Why did she not think? I wanted to say something but it was impossible without embarrassing people and causing a scene.
posted by
Azur
on May 9, 2006 at 4:04 PM
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Azur,
That you were there and knew to bring food and drink, when the woman and her son, may have been dazed and confused to even think to eat, is a gift of love. Gideon has a good definition of the difference between empathy and sympathy: when a male baseball player crashes into a wall and hits himself really hard in a delicate area (you know the one I mean), the men groan in "empathy" (knowing exactly how he feels and what that feels like). and the women groan in "sympathy", we can only guess what that feels like.
I'm sure your efforts were well appreciated, just showing up speaks volumes.
posted by
Blanche.
on May 9, 2006 at 3:15 PM
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8-ball, yes that is too many
sorry to hear that
posted by
Azur
on May 9, 2006 at 3:08 PM
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What a tough day.
poor baby, I hate funerals they are hard on everyone in my short life I've been to about eight. I'm only 23 I think that eight is too many for me. One is too many.
posted by
8-ball
on May 9, 2006 at 2:04 PM
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