Comments on Why there cannot be a God of traditional definition

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elysiafields -even without believing in God, I can agree with the last line

of your comment and the general sentiment that you express.

posted by gomedome on February 25, 2006 at 10:01 AM | link to this | reply

G

I used the analogy of a martial arts master, to draw a parallel to what you stated about about people with supreme confidence, discipline, and integrity. Unusual people, who attained their level of understanding through dedication and hard work. People who can show the way to others, should others want to know the way.

Frankly, I believe in God. I also believe that the Bible, the church, and any number of other things have conspired to take God away from us - so that we can be ruled by superstition, and fear.

But, God is with us, all the time, and we don't need a Bible to communicate with him.

posted by astromuffy on February 25, 2006 at 6:14 AM | link to this | reply

DrJPT - wish that it were so but I had no choice in the matter at all

until I was an adult.

posted by gomedome on February 24, 2006 at 9:18 PM | link to this | reply

Bud-Oracle - in the last part of your comment you cover things that

I should have given more elaboration to in this post. Specifically the power of suggestion and the imprinting that comes from being raised in a society that is predominantly of one religion.

posted by gomedome on February 24, 2006 at 9:17 PM | link to this | reply

elysiafields - with your analogy of using a martial arts master

You make the understanding of the so called word of God even more ultra exclusive.

posted by gomedome on February 24, 2006 at 9:15 PM | link to this | reply

Well the Gnome does it again, good post. So you think it is a version of...

mass hysteria, too.

I think that "religious capacity" has been developed by those who knew the average human being's propensity to be fooled. Your commentator Ecclesiastic-I don't have the proper spelling sorry- is gnawing it the crux of it..

"You must have faith" to understand the Bible. Sadly he doesn't see that if something is be defined in the realm of factual real understanding it cannot say that it is so, because it says that it is so.

When something requires belief as self support, it begins, and ends, in the mind of the believer.

Therefore belief is not a reliable construct to evaluate things, because there is no foundation in the real world which it can stand on. Belief is very dangerous to base a life, a government, an international goal on.

Belief's only value in this world is the consolidation of power, through the insertion of a favourable mindset into the believers, in order that they support those who control their thinking.

If only you would believe, Gnomedome, then you will see things their way. Let go of all you know and trust in the Lord, believe, Gnomedome! Watch the crucifix swing on the chain, Gnomedome, relax and let yourself believe. Your eye lids feel heavy, heavy with belief. Let your will rest, Gnomedom, and just believe. Amen

Please give me a read and help via email. See Sunshine soup

posted by Bud-Oracle on February 24, 2006 at 7:01 PM | link to this | reply

The Beauty of Being Able to Decide for Ourselves When Grown

posted by Dr_JPT on February 24, 2006 at 6:50 PM | link to this | reply

oh i forgot

I should mention that, if there is such a way to read the bible, and this way leads to mastery, then of course it would be encumbant upon these new masters to re-write the bible. Then it would be shiny and new - not antiquated at all! Or, we can just skip the whole thing, and attain enlightenment through Tantric Yoga.

Ahh, it's all a big mess anyway. And anyone who does get there, dosn't want to come back, because, by that time, even the body has become antiquated - when you're finally in full communion with God.

All my life, I never believed in re-incarnation, but always hoped it was true. Now I believe in re-incarnation, but I wish it wasn't true. Sigh.

posted by astromuffy on February 24, 2006 at 6:44 PM | link to this | reply

oh G

I suppose if my hunch holds true that there is another way to read this book, and that if your hunch is true that such people would rise above humanity - then in the act of reading would result in trancendence. Now, if a person actually gets there, they know that trancendence dosn't come automatically, but through reading, comprehension, and application. A master of martial arts couldn't give away their mastery if they tried - they can only provide guidance.

posted by astromuffy on February 24, 2006 at 6:32 PM | link to this | reply

elysiafields -- well of course -- that's it

But if one is capable of attaining this ultimate level of personal integrity, has the self confidence, self discipline and the quality of character to rise above all of the pitfalls associated with human nature.

....what need do they have for this antiquated book?

posted by gomedome on February 24, 2006 at 5:20 PM | link to this | reply

G

I don't think God would make his word so inaccessible, but I do believe that men would make God's word inaccesible, and have succeeded in that aim with the Bible. I also believe that if it is possible to be able to really read the Bible, and in so doing, discern inalienable truths, that individuals who have succeeded in this task will have no interest in being far above everybody else, but will have every interest in teaching their fellow humans to read as well.

They would know that the fate, or destiny of the human race depends upon it.

posted by astromuffy on February 24, 2006 at 3:16 PM | link to this | reply

elysiafields - and don't forget The Spaceships of Ezekial

What if this book that is the world's alltime bestseller is just a book? What if the "power and the glory of creation" is just a man made fabrication? I know that you pose the notions in your comment simply as food for thought but we must return to the underlying premise of this age old manuscript. It was and still is, promoted as being the inspired word of God by those who believe in such a thing. Can there be even the remotest possibility that the God as defined within it, would make his/her word so innacessible? A secret code, a methematical key, even the need to adopt a mindset to read it properly, are all roadbloacks that would impede the vast majority of peoples that have ever lived, from getting the message. It would also elevate those few who are capable of actually understanding it, to a status above everyone else on the planet. The "what if" that you describe shuffles the cards and re-deals them but it is still the same old fixed deck at the end of the day.

posted by gomedome on February 24, 2006 at 2:52 PM | link to this | reply

David1Spirit - how have you been?

As usual your words are too kind. I'm working on my run on sentences. I think I have them mastered as they are getting longer and longer.

posted by gomedome on February 24, 2006 at 2:33 PM | link to this | reply

reading the bible

Reaching far back into a time when I was a student, I recall being taught that, once, long ago, the Catholic church thought it was better if their congregation could not read. The chruch did not want it's flock to be able to read the bible.

I attended that partucular class such a long time ago, I cannot recall why it was that the church didn't want its congregation to know the Bible.

Presumably, we all read now, and any one of us can pick up the good book and start reading the scriptures. At this point, we apparently have two choices - either accept the words on faith - that faith pertaining to anything from studying, analyzing, and interpreting the scipture so that it makes sense, all the way to blind faith.

Or, recoil in disgust when we are confronted by the juxtoposition of disinterested brotherly love to rampant racisim, genocide, and the struggle for political supremecy, first waged in the old Testament by Jews, and again in the New Testament, by Christians.

But what if...

What if there is another way to read the Bible? And what if this way of reading the Bible is only known by a handful of individuals in the upper echelons of the Church?

What if the Catholics got their way after all, knowing that no one ever learned to read the Bible?

There are some mavericks among us - some crack mathemeticians who have found codes in the Bible.

There are others who claim that the Bible itself is code that can be deciphered to find it's true message.

Perhaps both of these approaches are preposterous, or perhaps they are on to something.

It's occuring to me that the Bible can be read with another kind of sight - something like a combination of congition, intellect, and intuition - I can't quite put my finger on it, but something along the lines of reading it with the soul.

Only to find that the keys to salvation, and sharing in the power and glory of creation are there after all - it's just a question of knowing where to look.