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"Are you saying that people need the idea of worshipping God in order to do such thing then? That says the worship is more important that the actual acts because that says the acts are meaningless without the worship." (Kooka)
Hmmmm, I think it's possible to do good works but to not have any worshipful intent. It's also possible to do good works and actively worship God in the process. Let God be the judge between the two. It's too easy for people to be judgmental; only God knows our hearts.
Some might view the good deeds of one person and think "what an awesome Christian", not knowing the heart of that person who was actually doing the deeds to impress someone else or look good. While another person might only have $1 to put in the collection plate on Sunday but have given it with all his/her heart and likely wished she/he could have given more. So let God be the judge!
Are worshipful good works better than plain old good works? I'm not going there, except to observe that both are very important and vital to the well being of humanity.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 13, 2006 at 6:33 PM
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worship of god is a need of humans
that is, those who ordain the worship and lead the churches.
they incuclate in the worshippers a need so to do so that they can feel wanted themselves as facilitators of the worship
and then there are those who feel they need to serve others -- so they need the others in order to serve.
there are multitudinous needs.
posted by
Xeno-x
on February 13, 2006 at 2:12 PM
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kooka_lives - this is an intriguing question
"So are my good deeds of any value even though they fully lack any worship to God, even though they are just as good as the deeds done be you or any other believer?"
I've had a variation of this put to me in the past by believing knuckleheads suggesting that the good deeds of the believer carry much more weight with God simply because they are done in his name. Of course this logic, if you can call it logic, suggests that God is so vain and self centered that he even precribes conditions on good deeds. It also flies in the face of suggesting that this same God cares about us as his children. From where I am sitting, if this omnipotent being must qualify good deeds solely by what the doer believes, he has lost sight of the effects of the good deed and therefore is more concerned with his own worship than what happens to us. All in all, it is just another one of those glaring inconsistencies that those who wish to villify the non believer must overlook.
posted by
gomedome
on February 12, 2006 at 7:26 PM
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Janes
Then you prove my point. I have no need to worship God because I can and have done all of that without worshipping God.
Are you saying that people need the idea of worshipping God in order to do such thing then? That says the worship is more important that the actual acts because that says the acts are meaningless without the worship.
So are my good deeds of any value even though they fully lack any worship to God, even though they are just as good as the deeds done be you or any other believer?
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 12, 2006 at 3:26 PM
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Actually . . . .
"The basic truth is that the church has created the whole need for worship above doing good or as the means to do that good, because if people do not see the importance of worship, then the Church is not going to have followers."
Doing good and living a moral life IS an act of worship to God. They are not mutually exclusive. Part of worshipping God is being generous, helping to meet the needs of others, serving others, etc.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 12, 2006 at 3:15 PM
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billy_cargo -- that ultimately is the point
Why look back on the Aztecs and the Druids? They were ancient cultures with primitive perspectives concerning the gods. Mankind felt it necessary to beg mercy and attempt to please the gods through ceremonial worship back then. Is any of that relevent today?
posted by
gomedome
on February 12, 2006 at 12:45 PM
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Kooka, worship and ceremony are a defining characteristic of
homo sapiens. The act of burial is a big deal for antropolgists. Look back at the druids and Aztecs, etc...religion has always been about worship. The moral implications of religion have coma along much much later.
posted by
FreeManWalking
on February 12, 2006 at 10:26 AM
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M.P.O.
If they are not, then they do not understand their own beliefs.
Since God can not be proven or disproven, we are left with the simple fact that those questions are based on beliefs. If you have a religious belief, then you are qualified to answer that question according to your beliefs.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 12, 2006 at 10:19 AM
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I'm not sure anyone here is qualified to answer those questions ...
or, anyone anywhere else, for that matter.
"If my decomposing carcass helps nourish the roots of a juniper tree or the wings of a vulture - that is immortality enough for me. And as much as anyone deserves."
~ Edward Abbey
posted by
Mademoiselle
on February 12, 2006 at 10:09 AM
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