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strat - I watched an interview with the paper's editor this evening
He made some very valid points but also demonstrated the general lack of comprehension that the western societies have for Islam in general. He said that his motivations for publishing the cartoons were as a means of welcoming members of the islamic religions to Denmark. This statement sounds to be a bit of convoluted logic at first but it actually made sense once he explained. In Denmark nothing in public domain is above satire, in that they are just like most western nations. This satire or poking fun at newlt established cultural or religious entities to their country, is almost considered an initiation of sorts, you are one of us if you can take a joke sort of thing. This is all fine and good but still a little naieve, then he eleborated on the final thoughts that allowed him to make the publishing decision. He felt that he could not allow the over zealous reactions of a religion that is foreign to his country, to shape and influence his county's cultural identity to any significant degree. These influences are the sole preserve of his country's citizens. . . . and that is a very valid point.
posted by
gomedome
on February 7, 2006 at 8:21 PM
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This post is absolutely right on.
The only thing I would remotely disagree with is slapping the cartoonist. He did his job, which is essentially to punch holes in sacred cows. It's his editor whose judgement must ultimately be questioned. True, you can expect the fanatics to react the way they did, but that doesn't mean the guy didn't have a legitimate point to make, regardless of the wrapping of the package.
Certainly, I found Robert Mapplethorpe's work a few years back to be offensive and pointless rather than artistic and subtle, but would nonetheless defend his right to express himself, even though I couldn't see the point.
Anyway, all that was probably off mark and pointless, but what the hell, the post and following comments were quite good. Thanks!
posted by
strat
on February 7, 2006 at 7:37 PM
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successwarrior
the basic thing here concerns consideration for other people.
the religious right didn't like
The Book of Daniel, which was really very innocuous, or the "Cruci-fixin's" of Britney Spears on Will and Grace, which was hardly anything, and had one taken off the air and the other changed.
And those two things were nothing. They didn't really offend anyone, particularly the Episcopal Church, pertaining to the Book of Daniel.
These are nothing compared to a cartoon that degrades a religious icon such as Mohammed -- something that would bring about the reaction it did and could have been passed over for publication and now has caused an even greater rift between the West and Moslem people..
consideration for people's sensibilities, that's what it is.
posted by
Xeno-x
on February 7, 2006 at 9:48 AM
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SuccessWarrior - I have to agree with that
It is point that more than anything is the theme of this posting. There is a balance to be determined between the realities and how much we are willing to tolerate. This last furor over a cartoon has left a taste of complete disgust in my mouth. Primarly with the Islamic clergy who orchestrated this entire debacle and to what end? To facilitate more death and destruction while illustrating to the world that they are only capable of primitive thought.
posted by
gomedome
on February 7, 2006 at 8:58 AM
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It may not have been a wise move but
I still think it's a little dangerous to let religious fanatics dictate to the rest of the world what is allowed and what isn't. Next thing you know, they will be violating their own laws and eavesdropping on their own people. It could happen.
posted by
SuccessWarrior
on February 7, 2006 at 8:46 AM
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SuccessWarrior -- I'm going to jump in here in Kooka's absence
He is speaking from a position of pure pragmatism which I tend to agree with. It matters not if the cartoonist has every right to exercise his freedom of speech when the negative outcome of his doing so is known before hand. Salmon Rushdie demonstrated for us what happens when someone publicly lambasts Islam. We know that a certain segment of the Islamic world will react this way. This reality doesn't make these over reacting, highly volatile people right in what they do but it sure makes anyone who sets off riots by not considering this reality, deserving of a slap in the head.
posted by
gomedome
on February 7, 2006 at 8:08 AM
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So you're saying that we should live by the concept of "the mob rules?"
posted by
SuccessWarrior
on February 7, 2006 at 7:51 AM
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SuccessWarrior
You have to slap the cartoonist in this case. While I can find no one who was involved in this who I would say was innocent of wrong doing, it did all start with someone drawing the stupid cartoon.
I you were to walk into a room filed with say a hundred women who have been treated really bad all day long and are stressed out and ready to crack, just looking for someone to take it all out on, would you go and say 'What, are you all on your periods?' And if you did actually say something that stupid and offensive, would you be one bit surprised if most of the women suddenly wanted to kick the living crap out of you? The smart thing to do would be to say nothing and let them calm down and not risk saying something in bad taste that you think s humorous. Yet if you did say something, are you innocent then? Or the women innocent? Are is it guilt form both sides?
The cartoon was not the real issue and yes, those Muslim groups were looking for something, anything to get pissed about and over react to. The cartoonist gave it to them.
This is one of those cases where everyone involved was either being as stupid as it gets or was manipulating things. No one involved in this should be above getting a nice hard slap.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 6, 2006 at 6:16 PM
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Gome, you DO have a way with words!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 6, 2006 at 6:16 PM
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I don't think that I would give a slap to the cartoonist
Worse things are drawn and said about every religion out there. Like you said, it's just an excuse so it wouldn't matter if it was a cartoon or a one liner from Leno.
posted by
SuccessWarrior
on February 6, 2006 at 5:20 PM
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