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JanesOpinion -- there is no doubt of that but the fears are of a different
nature.
The Islamic world will eventually force us in the western world to deal with them. It cannot be on their terms or we are doomed. Our encumbrances in dealing with them are derived entirely from our societies' inherent decency and our own visions of what is right or wrong. Too bad that they deal from a different deck than we do. This however is beginning to get off topic, to veer back on track: the different deck I refer to is the archaic mindset that has entire societies in the Islamic world still adhering to a mantra of "convert or die". It is this singular unwavering mindset that will eventually come to a boiling point in east west relationships. How are we to deal with it when the time comes? I would hope from a position of detached and objective pragmatism. If it is from a position of an emotionally charged, religiously oriented perspective .....in simple terms; we are screwed. That is the point of trying to influence my own society to see and understand it's own religious foibles.
posted by
gomedome
on February 5, 2006 at 2:45 PM
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Yes, Gome, but it is the Muslims you should fear the most . . . .
Having seen their blueprint for world domination, it frightens me more than anything a Christian fundamentalist might think to do. Ooops, wait, some might call ME a fundy. Anyway, good post and yes, I understand your concerns.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 5, 2006 at 1:30 PM
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kooka_lives - the last line of your comment is quotable
"The attitude that non-believers should not talk about religion is counter to the mentality that has brought mankind so much growth."
Imagine what this world would be like if only the voices of the most fervant of believers was ever heard. We'd still be in the dark ages.
posted by
gomedome
on February 5, 2006 at 11:33 AM
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SuccessWarrior - that's the biggest laugh found in a common irony
We've seen all kinds here on Blogit, in the past and present. There seems to be a number of constants that never change. The most self righteous are the biggest fools, the most judgemental are the biggest hypocrites, the most vocal have the least to say....it never changes.
posted by
gomedome
on February 5, 2006 at 11:30 AM
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JanesOpinion - I fully agree and what Islam in general is trying to do
is a perfect example of the type of religious mindset that I refuse to let take hold in my country. All major religions hold some elements of the extremism of Islam, at least in terms of their wish to dominate their own societies. Where we can both agree that the extremist portions of Islam are far more henious and violent than any current extreme element of Christianity, must we emulate them to any degree? Can we not look at their societies and identify simular constructs within our own countries to eventually eliminate them? That is the only meaningful comparison to Islam. I want to be like them even less than I want to be a Christian but it is not the Moslems that are currently enjoying a strong political influence in our societies.
posted by
gomedome
on February 5, 2006 at 11:25 AM
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Ironically . . . .
Gome wrote: "The point of all of this is that the world is changing. An individual's religious beliefs must be removed from consideration as we extend equal rights to all citizens of our societies. There is no other way, as any other path leads down the same dead end. That being one group wanting to determine how the rest of us should conduct our lives, while insiting that we must all accept and subscribe to their particular brand of irrationality. Influencing society is one thing, attempting to fashion society's citizens and it's institutions to subscribe to the precepts of one religion, is a recipe for disaster. Those not of that religion will rightfully rebel."
This is the goal of Islam, whether you agree or not, and we are currently seeing the madness over in Europe as the Europeans kowtow and apologize. The goal of Islam is for the world to bend the knee to Allah in obedient subservience, either peacefully or with force. If my only option was Islam, I would rebel, although I would likely have my head knocked off, or be forcefully raped by a gang of men (and then would wish to commit suicide).
Some of course will bring up Christianity's past (i.e. Crusades, Middle Ages, New World forced conversions, etc) but last I knew, at least in North America there are no forced conversions going on unless it's little Johnny being forced to get dressed up and go to church . . . or the occasional oddball cult where one assumes that a bunch of people all went off their anti psychotics at the same time.
Anyway, good post.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on February 5, 2006 at 8:19 AM
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Amen!
And isn't it odd that they teach nonjudgement because that it reserved for god but go about judging harshly all the time. But it's done in god's name so that makes it okay.
posted by
SuccessWarrior
on February 5, 2006 at 12:20 AM
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Great post
Well said.
In order to get people to listen you have to make sure you are saying something. if we just backed down, then we would know that there was no chance of anyone at all listening to us. And I think we have a lot of good things to say.
Where would the world be if no one talked up about their beliefs and expressed themselves? I doubt we would have ever left the caves.
The more voices that get heard, the better a chance of growth after all.
The attitude that non-believers should not talk about religion is counter to the mentality that has brought mankind so much growth.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 4, 2006 at 7:55 PM
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