Comments on A reply to a comment by Xeno-x about scapular medals - what are they?

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MysticGmekeepr -- you can't get on the train without a ticket

That includes tickets to heaven. The scenario you describe was about normal in our neck of the woods, save the wealth, that could have been our grandmother. This is the point that tradition and ceremony had evolved to? Little trinkets made of cloth are going to insure a place in heaven? Yet we still see variations of this lunacy today.

posted by gomedome on January 9, 2006 at 8:11 PM | link to this | reply

gomedome

...i had a friend who told me about her and her sister having to wear those scapulars. She was from a wealthy promiment family who made huge amts of money on Proctor and Gamble stocks. Her Grandmother however was a complete loon who's religious obsessions and insanity went along way toward destroying two innocent little girls. There Grandma stood by their bath at night , scapular in hand, so she could put it on them as soon as they had washed and dried themselves...for if they should die without it on they would go to hell.

posted by MysticGmekeepr on January 9, 2006 at 7:26 PM | link to this | reply

JanesOpinion -- at this end of the deal you get off real easy

...about 3 hail Mary's should do it. At least that's how I remember confession, mutter a few prayers and you were in the clear. It was the other end of the deal that was the killer. The prayers after confession only stopped you from going to hell, there was that darned purgatory to look forward to, no matter how many times you confessed your sins and how many prayers you said. So if you were a catholic you'd have to mumble a few prayers but additionally, you'd probably get about 800 million years in purgatory. For non catholics, you're just doing your job.

posted by gomedome on January 9, 2006 at 7:07 PM | link to this | reply

Gome, how many "hail mary's" does it take to pay for the sin of

inadvertently banishing Catholics to purgatory d/t loss of a scapular while desperately trying to keep the patient alive during a code?

(Forgive the run on sentence.)

posted by JanesOpinion on January 9, 2006 at 6:52 PM | link to this | reply

Trufflesaurus - welcome to Blogit

At the end of the day all any of us can do is our best. Transgression from previous generations are not our responsibility, in terms of setting the record straight or in being apologetics. Our sole responsibility lies in not making the same mistakes, in either allowing transgressions to proliferate, or in not allowing the circumstances which foster these transgressions to materialize. Sometimes we can only recognize these circumstances by looking at history, both recent and ancient.

posted by gomedome on January 8, 2006 at 9:51 AM | link to this | reply

It breaks my heart a little

to hear of this gross abuse of authority by the clergy. I have been a church-goer since I was 6 days old but as I got older and began to think critically about religion, politics, culture etc it became very difficult for me to reconcile the deeds of the church as an institution with what I felt the core message of Christianity was...namely love.   The Church has been the perpetrator of gross acts of misconduct for 1500 years, I think primarily because no one is immune to the lure of money and power.

I'm a Protestant and am therefore not so familiar with the ins and outs of the Catholic church.....much of it seems very dodgy to me. The point is however that just because a person is a Christian, doesn't mean their sinful nature is obliterated.   People still make mistakes and screw things up.   Granted, the systematic guilt tripping and selling of favours just to fill the coffers is more than just one person making a mistake but at the end of the day, for me at least, that is not what is important because there is not much I can to to change such a long history.

All I can do is make sure I am trying everyday to do the right thing and show love. Sometimes I get it wrong but that's what being human is all about....fallibility.

posted by Trufflesaurus on January 8, 2006 at 6:25 AM | link to this | reply

jollyjeff - that's my entire beef with the irrationality of it all

...so much of it is premised on the perceptions of ancient man.

posted by gomedome on January 7, 2006 at 7:46 PM | link to this | reply

It's easy to blame this on 13th century ignorance

but the sad thing is that equally stupid superstitions still exist today.

posted by jollyjeff on January 7, 2006 at 2:26 PM | link to this | reply

Xeno-x - when you think about it outside of the realm of conceding

any form of alltruism to the church, they quite often come across as being nothing more than criminals. My favourite is holy water. Mutter a few prayers over plain old water and it is now holy somehow. Then line em up to dip their fingers in it while reminding them that good Christians give generously to the church.........whenever someone suggests that I have a negative bias towards the church and the money they need to maintain their infrastructure I have to remind them .......a trillion dollars in accumulated wealth. 1,700+ years of positive cash flow. ....gimme a break.

posted by gomedome on January 7, 2006 at 1:36 PM | link to this | reply

I wonder

if I saw a vision of a saint in my back yard --
and I created an image
hell, that's quite a little industry going on there.

posted by Xeno-x on January 7, 2006 at 1:26 PM | link to this | reply

RckyMtnActivist - in fairness I must add that many catholic churches do

give them away for free. (As Melody has also mentioned) but it really depends on the general economic health, or accumulated wealth, of the individual diocese and it varies widely from country to country. If tithing and other means of fund raising is going okay, then you get little free wafers (communion) and a few other trinkets that are blessed in lieu of your donations. These trinkets can include scapular medals.

posted by gomedome on January 7, 2006 at 10:48 AM | link to this | reply

JanesOpinion - Oh no -- you have routinely banished countless Catholics to

purgatory. Not hell of course because they invented a wating room of sorts. (of course I'm kidding) But if a catholic dies while not wearing their scapular medal, the Virgin Mary isn't gonna make any exceptions, no glorious stroll at her side througb the pearly gates but instead, a regular purgatory sentence like every other smuck. Purgatory is much like hell, except it isn't eternal....you do eventually get parolled, however sentences can range up to billions of years. This all makes sense doesn't it? Pay for your sins in a hell like prison while awaiting heaven and this deal is just about as equitable as every other deal I have seen the catholic church construct. Average human lifespan in our part of the world is what...around 78.6 years or so? You get to atone for the transgressions committed over that lifetime by spending billions of years in purgatory? .....when they put all of this stuff together, they must have been up against some pretty feeble negotiators.

posted by gomedome on January 7, 2006 at 10:40 AM | link to this | reply

Zoe_BooBoo - your comment has inspired a post.

I strongly agree that the future of the world depends on mankind finding it's way out of our religious funk. It is the responsibility of those who are capable of articulating how religion is destroying us, to speak up.

posted by gomedome on January 7, 2006 at 10:30 AM | link to this | reply

I forgot about scapulars.

I had many of these scapulars when I was a child. I remember wearing one to bed. It got all tangled up and almost choked me. Maybe that was just God’s attempt to silence a seven year old.

I have to say to DrJPT re: his comment “I learned early on to avoid religious and political discussions for they are too emotionally charged. I have opinions that I keep to myself and will listen to others.” Please, please reconsider this decision. Our civilization depends on it.

posted by Zoe_BooBoo on January 7, 2006 at 9:25 AM | link to this | reply

I think I've mentioned this before . . .

wondering as to the number of scapulars that have ended up down the laundry chute at hospitals around the world. I'm thinking I've sent a few down. I mean, really, when a sick Catholic is intubated and on the vent and we're desperately trying to keep that person alive, and their family members display scapulars and other bits of strange cloth and metal around the patient -- that really isn't our priority.

Or should it be? Will the fault of the person's death be on my head? Humph. I don't think so.

Good post, Gome. I am appalled to think that the conniving, robbing priest of your childhood would jack up the price to $20, knowing full well the hardship it would cause your family.

posted by JanesOpinion on January 7, 2006 at 8:16 AM | link to this | reply

Rocky

The cord ones are free.

Hi Gome... regards, Melody

posted by CunningLinguist on January 7, 2006 at 6:49 AM | link to this | reply

Gome....

Scapular medals, Bingo...just more ways to make money for the church!

posted by RckyMtnActivist on January 7, 2006 at 5:23 AM | link to this | reply

Gomedome, you know your scapular!

I wear the brown scapular to bed. Mine has a thick brown cord with 2 flat rectangular cloth-like pendants with images on both sides. One side has the image of Jesus and on the back, the Sacred Heart. On the opposite pendant is the image of Our Lady in one side and on the back, Her Immaculate Heart. I like wearing it to bed...feels comforting like a cozy blanket and symbolic of a mother's love and embrace. Thanks for sharing, Melody

posted by CunningLinguist on January 6, 2006 at 8:59 PM | link to this | reply

DrJPT -- I just Googled the term "scapular medal" and found hundreds of

web sites selling them. A good example is found HERE ....they all seem to be made of metals these days but originally were just cloth.

posted by gomedome on January 6, 2006 at 8:38 PM | link to this | reply

Ariala - actually I'm a bit surprised that I have received a couple of

comments from people that have not heard of scapular medals. I was under the impression that the practice of selling them was a lot more widespread.

posted by gomedome on January 6, 2006 at 8:28 PM | link to this | reply

Hmmmmm..

I enjoy reading your posts. I never heard of this before, yet again, there are areas I have not studied and took without questioning my teachings in the Lutheran and Baptist churches. I learned early on to avoid religious and political discussions for they are too emotionally charged. I have opinions that I keep to myself and will listen to others.