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Or infidel neighbors.
posted by
majroj
on December 31, 2005 at 11:26 PM
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majroj -no doubt that science has it's foibles, it is as any undertaking, a
camp of divergent people pursuing countless personal agendas. As you describe life in a theocratic state, I might add that I cannot think of one example where the existing model would be an improvement in our lives if we were to adopt it. Not one, past or present. Living in western societies, we are unaware of what hell holes places like Iran are, for example. I liked the observation about the weapons... yeah, no kidding...theocratic states seem willing to accept antiquated technology in everything except what they might use on their own citizens.
posted by
gomedome
on December 31, 2005 at 8:42 AM
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Not unlike what many have done with "**SCIENCE!**"
With technocracy you can live longer and better, in which situation you can seek spirituality ad lib to assuage your uncertainties. Think Britain, Canada, USA, Germany, nordic nations.
With a theocracy which abhors technology (the practical expression of science), you live a more spiritual life to assuage your uncertainties; but since civil engineering and sectarian strife are more likely (and since when did sectarian militias ever forego the lastest in weapons they can afford?)so your lifve tends to be shorter and less comfortable, with the pursuit of science controlled by the State...I mean God..oh, wait, they're one in the same...
And Marxism's practical expression was essentially a theocracy.
posted by
majroj
on December 31, 2005 at 6:19 AM
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majroj - that's it basically, determining the "right" side to be on by
building consensus and wishing for it to be so. Then after centuries of holding the myths as eternal truths, they become true enough and offer comfort for many.
posted by
gomedome
on December 30, 2005 at 2:42 PM
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But wait, there's more..
"Scientific dogma" is supposed to be an oxymoron (it's not, but roll with it for a minute), but "Bible truths" and "old time religion" and traditions are as solid as their practitioners make them...status quo. No "theory of immaculate conception", it's unassailable.Etc etc etc.
Most people like that, especically if they are favored by it. Kind of like Jim Crow laws if you were white male and over 21 in 1940's Mississippi.
posted by
majroj
on December 30, 2005 at 12:17 PM
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majroj - as an explanation it does become an easy out
especially when so many scientific principles and theories are premised on mathematical equations or chemical analysis or whatever, that are beyond the comprehension of the average person.
posted by
gomedome
on December 30, 2005 at 9:38 AM
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The upswing of fundamentalist religion and anti-science are the pendulum.
It's here, it's real. It's so much easier to believe in relatively simple religious and magical rules than science, which has disappointed so many folks over the years who were expecting it to be like, well, religion.
posted by
majroj
on December 29, 2005 at 7:52 PM
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DrJPT - that is all we really have today; more questions
It becomes an exercise in examining avenues of enquiry for their apparent legitimacy, with the full understanding that they are merely avenues or a direction towards the answers. If in fact these answers can be found.
posted by
gomedome
on December 29, 2005 at 12:23 PM
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sannhet - it really becomes an exercise in editing what we have been
conditioned to believe and opening our thought processes to any number of emerging real sciences and ongoing scientific discovery.
posted by
gomedome
on December 29, 2005 at 12:20 PM
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Agree
Advances of today relating to the sciences offer different interpretations, with answers actually leading to more questions!
posted by
Dr_JPT
on December 29, 2005 at 12:06 PM
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Gome -
I'm with ya on this. There is a lot that can't be explained - currently. That doesn't mean it won't be some day, nor does it mean that it is magic or alien beings or whatever.
posted by
sannhet
on December 29, 2005 at 12:03 PM
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Ariala - thank you - as you know I am of the camp that believes that all
human experience is derived from within the human mind, so far it is the only underlying premise that makes any sense to me. More on this
HERE ....when this premise is coupled with advancements in modern science, it tends to begin to explain some things. While not even being close to full and satisfactory answers to many of the questions we may have concerning the supernatural etc., it opens up an avenue of enquiry that cannot be dismissed.
posted by
gomedome
on December 29, 2005 at 11:36 AM
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Gome, nice to read your thoughts on this subject...that last comment
was really cool, "ambient energy signatures, our vibratory signatures, our photo optical footprint in time and the electronic signal projection ability" -- yeah!
posted by
Ariala
on December 29, 2005 at 11:18 AM
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Ariala - I don't like the use of the word hologram in this instance but I
tend to agree with the underlying principles. We may not live long enough to fully comprehend the relationships between our ambient energy signatures, our vibratory signatures, our photo optical footprint in time and the electronic signal projection ability of the human brain, but we do sense that these things in conjunction with each other offer many answers.
posted by
gomedome
on December 29, 2005 at 11:14 AM
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RckyMtnActivist - that's a perfect example of an instance not being a
result of anything mysterious. We pick up things subliminally from our environment via osmossis or however one wants to describe the information gathering process. Our instincts and subconscious mind works with the information without our realizing it, sometimes to manifest itself in actions that we have no explanation for. We just know our actions to be right, or we just know that our instincts have guided us correctly in the past. The person I described in this post, the Amazing Kreskin was a master at manipulating this subliminal information.
posted by
gomedome
on December 29, 2005 at 11:06 AM
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Ariala.
I agree it is a dimensional and frequency thing. I don't like the word psychic it has become a joke to many people. I also tend to believe that there are scientific explanations for this and the study of metaphysics has enlightened me tremendously.
posted by
RckyMtnActivist
on December 29, 2005 at 11:03 AM
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Gome and Rcky, if you read up on on physics and on the holographic
universe, it doesn't surprise me that any of us have these abilities at times. The past, present and future are all here and sometimes we have glimpses of it through the fact that we are a part of the hologram and each part (us) reflects the whole (the universe in past/present/future.) There is nothing spiritual or supernatual going on, in my opinion, it's scientific. Why it works at times and not at others is mysterious...why some people have stronger abilities in these areas is mysterious. I believe it has to do with frequencies...and tuning in, but I don't know.
posted by
Ariala
on December 29, 2005 at 10:59 AM
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Gome...
What a story, and I have had similar experiences. Also when I was a teen I had a vision that the guy I was dating was cheating on me. It turns out I was right and I dumped his ass! Sometimes this stuff comes in handy. LOL
posted by
RckyMtnActivist
on December 29, 2005 at 10:58 AM
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Ariala - it also doesn't help matters that there are so many people in
this world that attempt to manipulate things ascribed to the spiritual realm to self serve their own agendas. From bogus faith healers to carnival fortune tellers, there are many examples of the manipulation of others being nothing more than an accomplished con. With all of these less than credible examples being so common, if there is any credence to the heightened mentalist abilities of some individuals, the inherent skepticism that we all maintain to some degree, virtually guarantees that we will never fully understand some phenomona.
posted by
gomedome
on December 29, 2005 at 10:57 AM
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RckyMtnActivist - I simply cannot explain it and to a lesser degree have
had simular experiences. Sometimes we just know, or are certain of something that attaining the knowledge of which, defies our ability to explain how we know it. 30 years ago, I received a phone call from a family friend who informed me that she was overcome by a feeling of dread that another one of my family friends, whom she hardly knew, had just been killed. She was wrong, at the time of the phone call he was still at work and very alive. He was killed 3 hours later in a car accident, she was 50 miles away from the scene of the accident. When I phoned her back to garner at least some understanding as to how she knew this was going to happen, her answer confused things even more. She said that while she was sleeping that morning, the young man who had been killed later that day appeared at the foot of her bed and asked her to say goodbye to all of his friends for him. The conclusion is that there are some things we will never explain.
posted by
gomedome
on December 29, 2005 at 10:50 AM
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Gome...
I understand what you are saying and this psychic abilities stuff has become glamorized by the media and all the so called "psychics" promoting whatever. However how do you explain that all my life I always "knew" things before they happen, and I was usually correct. Some incredible things have happened to me in my life revolving around predictions and knowing. I am basically a skeptic and I question everything. But there are many things that I cannot explain. I'm not nuts, I'm a very stable person and only my close friends and family throughtout my life knew about this. So what do you think! P.S. I knew you were going to add me to your blogger heaven. LOL - Not really!
posted by
RckyMtnActivist
on December 29, 2005 at 10:37 AM
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Gome, believe it or not, I tend to agree with you. I think we attribute
much to the supernatural which in fact has little or nothing to do with the supernatural. From people claiming past lives to spirits, magic and etc., when in fact most of it is mind or nature manipulation or something similar. There is a lot going on on the quantum level that has nothing to do with spirits and the supernatural and this is why I like to find scientific explanations for things. I believe there is a scientific answer to most of these things, whether we have that answer yet or not.
posted by
Ariala
on December 29, 2005 at 10:15 AM
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