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I meant to say a 1 sided point of view
posted by
FreeManWalking
on December 16, 2005 at 10:34 AM
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A one sided is by one party is necessary for a 2 way discussion. Thanks
for playing this morning. I don't agree with all your views but I appreciate the thought you put into them.
posted by
FreeManWalking
on December 16, 2005 at 10:34 AM
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billy, you are very confused
What does the moment of silence serve? That should not be up to the school to do. If a kid needs a moment of silence, they can wait until lunch or recess. They do not need to take time of the class for it. A moment of silence is not educating the kids, which is what the schools are suppose to be focusing on.
The ACLU stand up for everyone. It does not decided that it agrees or disagrees with the views of the people, that it not what it is suppose to do. it is suppose to like at if their rights are being denied. It defends all people equally because if it did not, then ti would be choosing who is right and what people have a right to their rights, which is very much against what it is all about. You are saying people should be denied certain rights because you disagree with them. The KKK has the right to say what they say, no matter how stupid it is and how wrong their beliefs may be. They can go and spit out all the ignorant hate speech they want and legally the government can not stop them. Regretfully that is part of true freedom, even the ignorant and stupid can speak their minds. The ACLU is not advocating the beliefs of the groups, but are defending the basic fundamental ideas of freedom and the rights given to us all by the Bill of Rights. As soon as one group, no matter how messed up their beliefs may be, are denied the basic rights, it suddenly becomes easier for other groups to be denied the same right until the idea of freedom becomes meaningless unless you subscribe to a very narrow set of beliefs.
You really should look at all the case the ACLU does and no just the few cases that the Christian groups use to make the ACLU look bad.
Murder of abortion doctors. The teacher who was beaten because he stalked out about his view or the illogic of creationism. The drowning of children to free them from sin. Beatings and killings of homosexuals. All of which are common crimes of violence committed by Christians in our country. There are many documented occurrences of these kinds of events that keep happening regularly. Outside of the actual acts, there are way too many Christian groups promoting hate and violence towards those who do not believe as they do. Go see godhatesfags.com or read the article here http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2005/12/a_nation_under_god.html to see examples of this.
Yes a lot of the violence is caused by ignorance, and I rarely see any as ignorant as those Christians who are out there creating the violence.
Drug addiction? Not really, since most drug addicts can do little due to the drugs screwing them up so badly. Now the drug trafficking does cause violence, but no where near the level of violence that was created due to prohibition. We can solve some of that violence by legalizing pot. And that violence is not really the stuff the is bring us down. It really mostly affects those involved in it and not the average person, while the Christians violence is much more spread out.
"the welfare state that tells people they can't durvive on their own so they should covet what their neighbors have". I am guessing you are trying to talk about gangs here? The average welfare family is not violent after all. As for gangs, all of the gang members I have known personally (And I know a good deal of them to tell the truth, including one who stole form the arcade I was assistant manager of when he worked there ) were from middle class homes believe it or not. They just ran with the gangs because they had poor family structure. At least out here gang violence is nothing big. It has happened, but it is really minor and is mostly the basic teenage crap taken too far. And I have yet ot see any of it having any connection to welfare at all. I am very interested into what gave you the impression that welfare has any connection at all to violence.
You really show a leaning towards only paying attention to one side of things with you views here.
posted by
kooka_lives
on December 16, 2005 at 10:22 AM
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Kooka - you are right to balk at school prayer but I don't see that a
moment of silence could hurt. You and I both realize our schools need to be overhauled as far as subjects and methods.
Back to my responce...I find the ACLU odious at all times...standing up for Pinkos, the KKK, and various other groups with unpopular ideas shouldn't ingratiate them to the public. Many ideas are unpopular for sound reasons. Advocates of these ideas are what bring down America.
I have a question - name a recent and recurring example of Christianity causing violence and disharmony that is destroying America? I thought that was mostly caused by ignorance, drug addiction, and the welfare state that tells people they can't durvive on their own so they should covet what their neighbors have.
posted by
FreeManWalking
on December 16, 2005 at 9:39 AM
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billy
So you are saying that no one should complain about the government saying that there is God and that the Christian beliefs are the right beliefs that all should follow even if they do not believe? You do not see the problem with Schools taking time out of class to allow for prayer, when not everyone in the class agree with those beliefs?
What I am saying is practice your faith on your own time outside of sign of government favoritism. That is fair and just and follows the ideas of freedom. If we do not follow that, we are not a free country. We are then saying that Christians are more accepted than other faiths in this country. We would be saying that if you are not Christian then you do not belong.
The ACLU defends just as many Christian as it does non- Christians, that is fact. It is just the Christians ignore it when the ACLU defends them an really attacks when they do not. It is yet another example of Christians playing victims.
Christian beliefs are taking us down because it is a huge cause of violence and disharmony in our society today. The Christians for the most part refuse to respect other beliefs and are right now doing all they can to take away freedoms in order to force people to accepted their ways and their morals. That is truly what is destroying our country right now. The arrogance and righteousness of the Christians that want to have laws passed that are purely forced moral laws that do not care at all about the right of choice for the people, defending the laws of the Bible and not the needed laws of the land that will best protect the people and grant freedom.
posted by
kooka_lives
on December 16, 2005 at 9:13 AM
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Kooka, ironically, the solution for you promote for ending victimhood is
exactly what the secular humanists refuse to do. If they don't like the pledge of allegiance they can refuse to say it...they can refuse to take part in prayers...they can obviously refuse to patronize pro-Christian establishments. So why do they always get the ACLU involved? My latest post is about the pillar of Chirstianity our societ was founded on.
Additionally, how could this possibly be true..."If the world is really going to hell in a hand basket, it is mostly because we are still to much of a Christian society right now."...Is an institution that promotes moral behaviour (and lets leave Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld out of this) really so bad?
posted by
FreeManWalking
on December 16, 2005 at 8:33 AM
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Kooka...
I think the christians themselves have brought on the christian bashing. They are always in our face telling us how to live, what is right and wrong, etc., and of course if we are not christians we are going to hell! People are fed up. I know I am. Great post!
posted by
RckyMtnActivist
on December 16, 2005 at 5:09 AM
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kooka_lives -- some of these people who want to play victim should try
living on the other side of the fence for awhile. If they insist on whimpering that they are victims as they try to influence every facet of society and are upon occassion stopped from doing so, imagine how they would react if they were truly victims? If they were perpetually the subject of carefully orchestrated propaganda, or were forced to pledge an allegiance to beliefs other than their own just to maintain social harmony? This victim mentality that we see so much of, is really nothing more than a groundless complaint about not being able to run roughshod over everyone else's beliefs.
posted by
gomedome
on December 15, 2005 at 10:50 PM
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I call them "Christianos", as if you didn't already know.
the lunatic fringe of Christianity.
Includes Pat Roberts and Jim Bakker and such.
Wanting a "Christian" controlled U.S.
paranoid that their brand of Christianity would be dissipating (good idea as far as I'm concerned)
intolerant of ANY ONE not ascribing to their fanatic brand of religion -- including other Christians.
and those who speak here -- well they are the ones needing personal attention more than expressing a belief -- that's mainly what they write for.
and the thing to be afraid of is that they are by their very activism pulling a reluctant country toward their way of thinking -- misrepresenting and making unvalidated statements.
just as our blogger mentioned here.
he lives in a narrowly focused world and wants the rest of the world to dance to his little tune.
posted by
Xeno-x
on December 15, 2005 at 10:15 AM
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