Comments on I NEED TO ATTEND A SATANIC SERVICE

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Okay, what this looks like to me is

a regurgitation of some parts of Christianity into more modern language, with an important acknowledgement of selfishness and the individual. I think many successful businessmen are inherently Satanists even if they are unaware of the principles they are following. Actually, many of the heads of the organized Christian religions follow most of these rules also...hmmmm.  Yes I have not gone over it line by line to see if every one applies, but surely, this is what I thought as I read...

posted by FactorFiction on November 30, 2005 at 6:32 AM | link to this | reply

Ody

If the Christian themselves are unable to agree about those quality, how in the world would we be able to?

Okay so what is kindness? Is it kind to be brutally honest with a person, pointing out all of their flaws in order to show them where they need to work on their personality in order to be a better person, even though you know they are going to be hurt greatly by this? Or is it kinder to not say anything and allow a person to go around expressing their flaws openly, but not hurting their feelings?

You just do not get the big picture at all. An you will not be happy until you get people to say you are right, when you very much are far from being right.

Ajlkhjlk is nothing at all. It is meaningless. It is you renaming God in hopes to get people to admit that they would be willing to follow your idea of God if you gave it a new name. For you names and words are very powerful and you give them a whole lot of power over you. For my it is the concepts that truly matter. I very much am aware that darn and dang are not different than saying damn and none of those words have any true power.

"We can easily omit from ajlkhjlk the ambiguous situations that you contrive and focus instead upon the extent of recognizable truth that we are able to agreeably discern most clearly from the implementations of love, peace, generosity, loyalty, compassion, and kindness."

Get out and look at reality for once. Religions splinter off because they are fully unable to deal with what you are claiming to be unimportant here. People go to war because they can not agree on just what is important when dealing with the ideas of 'love, peace, generosity, loyalty, compassion, and kindness', and these are people who will follow the same basic faith. Once more you just do not at all have a grasp of reality. It is like when you tried to claim it would be easy for people to agree on what a perfect circle is and I proved to you that you were 100% wrong on that.

"But Ajlkhjlk expands in the world as disagreements and discord are eliminated."

And that along shows why it shall fail and fail miserably. Why? Because disagreements and discord are never truly eliminated. If anything there are more and more of them all the time. Trust me when I say that my ideas of 'love, peace, generosity, loyalty, compassion, and kindness' are going to differ from yours greatly, and the priority put into each as well as the way to measure them and show them to others will never agree. Both of us would want to add to the list, but would not agree on what is more important to add and so on. Your idea of Ajlkhjlk is just as foolish and poorly thought out as any concepts of God that are out there.

Ajlkhjlk is nothing more than a joke and can not be taken seriously by any rational thinking person. If you even have the slightest bit of insight to reality you can see just how flawed the concept is and how it has been done before by Christians seeking to trick other faith into converting. Renaming God does not change the truth about what you are trying to push.

You still have not told me if the ideas listed in this post about the Beliefs of the Church of Satan are good enough to fit into your idea of Ajlkhjlk.

posted by kooka_lives on November 29, 2005 at 6:53 AM | link to this | reply

kooka_lives -

Actually, I do think that we could agree most of the time about what constitutes love, peace, generosity, loyalty, compassion, kindness, and the other concepts of ajlkhjlk. Certainly, you can contrive certain situations where greater discernment is necessary to exercise these concepts, but these are mere situations, not mars against the concepts for which we are striving. For example, we can both envision the primary character of the compassionate person, the kind person, the peaceful person, etc. We can both know how that person would respond in most situations. But, more importantly, we can both know what the concept itself is, exclusive of man, or man’s situational comedies. For example, we can agree what peace is. We can agree what kindness is, as well as the other aspects of ajlkhjlk. In fact, we can contemplate upon the aspects of ajlkhjlk in perfect form, as in the most honest, loving, peaceful, generous, kind, and compassionate being that we can imagine. It is in this way that the beauty of the concepts themselves become manifest to us and we fall in love with them, seeking to promote them in all that we do.

Familial worship is nothing new and is one of the most primitive forms of religion. It is a natural tendency of man to cherish that immediate cluster of protection about him. Similarly, many other things and objects have been equally quick to garner the primary focus of man. The sun, the moon, the female, the earth, the old man, rocks, mountains, trees, and many other things have been worshipped in the past by man. Even “nothing” has been worshiped in nihilistic movements. But ajlkhijlk differs from them because it grants focus only to the extent that visible truth can be discerned.

We can easily omit from ajlkhjlk the ambiguous situations that you contrive and focus instead upon the extent of recognizable truth that we are able to agreeably discern most clearly from the implementations of love, peace, generosity, loyalty, compassion, and kindness. Hence, Ajlkhijlk exists only to the extent that we can agree . You have correctly noted that disagreement works to limit ajlkhijlk in the world. Clearly, ajlkhijlk is limited by the extent to which we disagree. But Ajlkhijlk expands in the world as disagreements and discord are eliminated. We can nurture ajlkhijlk in the world by first establishing the extent to which we can lovingly agree. These concepts of “basic human decency” are clearly the best medium for such agreement, which may then develop and grow in the world, in direct proportion to the extent of our cooperation and goodwill toward one another.

posted by telemachus on November 29, 2005 at 1:12 AM | link to this | reply

Ody

From what I remember of the whole ajlkhjlk, you were the one who came up with it. Who is this atheist that helped you, I know it was not me. I also know I never fully agreed with it because I had proven my point greatly that it would be impossible to get people to ever agree on just what all the qualities should be and how they should be measured.

That is also besides the point., You have already made ti clear that as far as you are concerned ajlkhjlk is just another name for you idea of God. It is like pretending that darn and dang are really not other words for damn. Stop being so naive. I am not that naive. I know better. That is why I said 'a piece of shit by any other name...' I was not calling ajlkhjlk itself shit, I was just making a point.

Now go and read the basic ideas of the Church of Satan as I have them posted and tell we where those ideas do not fit into this concept of ajlkhjlk. And try to read them without thinking about the mythological ideas of Satan. I think you will find they fit in as well as any religion does.

"honestly, love, peace, generosity, loyalty, compassion, kindness," Funny, I have yet to see any of those actually be practiced by the Christian idea of God. They claim they are, but I see none of it in the Bible.

In truth the general ideas of those qualities may sound simple, but it gets complex if we are realistic about it all. Who is showing true compassion, the one who helps a person who is dying painfully to have a quicker death so they do not suffer or a person who believes that ever moment of life is important and so you must do all you can to keep them alive even if it means the suffer? Who is more loyal, the person who kills their commanding officers because they see a potential threat to the harm to the crew? This is why we have the break up of religious ideas and fragmenting of religions, which has always kept us from achieving peace. There is an underling area that all seem to be working towards, but they can never agree on the details of it all.

You need to take a step back and get over your pride and read what has been said here. I really do not think you are understanding even the smallest part of what I am trying to say. You still are trying to label it all with the whole 'good and evil' ideas, while I keep trying to say that there are many paths to the same goal. You may not like the idea of the Church of Satan because you are trapped in your own mythological ideas of what Satan represents, but the truth is that the Church of Satan has value to their beliefs. That was the idea I was trying to get across. You somehow decided that since I can see the good in their ideas, I smut be promoting the evil of things because of the mythological aspect of Satan.

Do you not see how you are actually hurting the strive for goodness by being so closed minded and not allowing for the chance to see the possible good that can come from the beliefs listed in this post?

"Do you truly believe there is nothing worthy of your primary focus?"

You just do not get the big picture at all and never will. I have always been able to maintain a great balance of my focus so that all things get the needed attention. I have no primary focus unless there is some great need. Yes, Most of my focus is now on my family and that is about as close as I will never get to having my primary focus on anything. To truly enjoy and understand life you have to be open and flexible and able to adjust your focus as needed.

"Can you see what I mean when I say that when you make “nothing” your primary focus then your primary focus is, in fact, “nothing”."

I have no primary focus, just as I do not worship anything. That doesn't mean my primary focus is nothing or that I worship nothing. My focus is spread out and well balanced. Which is what is needed for one to live a healthy life, mentally, spiritually and physically.

"because I'm assuming that honesty, love, peace, generosity, loyalty, compassion, kindness must be too broad for you, or you would not reject ajlkhjlk."

I understand those concepts very well. And I believe in them , yet I will bet anything if we were each to define just what someone would have to do to show off those values our ideas would not agree at all. Those values are subjective in the same way that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. As a brilliant man once said 'Many of the truths we cling depend greatly on our own point of view.' Ajlkhjlk can not hold itself together any more than any other set of religious beliefs are able to. You are just trying to rename God or whatever in order to simplify it, but in truth it is just as meaningless.

And I do not reject ajlkhjlk, I just know it will not work since it is nothing more than renaming God. It solves nothing. In the end it is what all religions are about, yet none will admit that all the others follow whatever it is they call ajlkhjlk.

"I wonder if you would be equally capable of posting such an elaborate treatise in support of Christianity?"

If Christianity needed it I would, but as it is I can not make a strong point in making such a post. Christianity is too big of a problem to our society right now and is holding us back and bring us down because of the mentality of those who think like you do here. Your comments to this post very much display the weakness that is the dominate beliefs right now. Christianity as it is today needs to be torn down for the greater good so that something stronger and better can be built on it. There is a good foundation there, but the structure itself is weak and rotten and corrupt.

I keep hoping you will come out of the darkness that your path has taken you into, but you really seem to be to full of pride to be able to accept the light I try to shine your way.

posted by kooka_lives on November 28, 2005 at 6:43 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka - Ajlkhjlk is not a trick

and, in fact, it was conceived in a conversation with an atheist here on blogit, just like the one we are participating in.  If you don’t believe it, I have the text of the original debate and can post it for you.

 

The defining aspects of ajlkhjlk are not solely my creation, but came by mutual participation in an effort to find basic aspects of goodness to which people could find mutual agreement.  They are honestly, love, peace, generosity, loyalty, compassion, kindness, and other things that Gomedome referred to as “basic human decency”.  It's no secret that many religious people associate and identify these concepts with God.  But clearly, it's not these concepts that repel you so much as it is the term “God”; and so by using ajlkhjlk. all of the mythology and raving complaints that you can normally voice against organized religion are banished, and you are left with only the pure essence of righteousness.  That should make you smile!

 

Ajlkhjlk can grow only to the extent that universal truths are revealed to us.  For, for something to be a part of ajlkhjlk, it has to be self-evident to the extent that even adversaries would recognize it as visible truth.  But the value of ajlkhjlk lies in the fact that it gives mutual focus and provides a basic underlying goal of goodness that, if nurtured, could clearly bring peace to certain adversarial situations.  To this extent, any person that is capable of defeating their self-pride, long enough to commit to, as Gomedome says, “basic human decency” could subscribe to ajlkhjlk.

 

Worship is nothing more than setting something as your primary focus in life to the extent that you will endeavor to perpetuate it in yourself and in others.  Do you truly believe there is nothing worthy of your primary focus?  Can you see what I mean when I say that when you make “nothing” your primary focus then your primary focus is, in fact, “nothing”.  Please think about what, if anything, you would consider worthy of your primary focus, and let me know.  Perhaps, if you keep it basic, it will be sufficient for us to form agreement because I’m assuming that honesty, love, peace, generosity, loyalty, compassion, kindness must be too broad for you, or you would not reject ajlkhjlk.

 

I agree with you that discernment is necessary as you follow your path in life, but I do not believe that we must leave those who come behind us totally in the dark.  There are certain visible truths and solutions to gray area problems that those who come behind us can benefit from, if we but inform them.  To me, certain things, like peace and kindness, should be pursued whenever possible.  And, if truly, the point of this post was to “show people that they need to get beyond preconceived religious ideas and find the good in all beliefs” than I wonder if you would be equally capable of posting such an elaborate treatise in support of Christianity?

 

But truly, I think the real growth commences when we depart from the existing edifices altogether and march headlong into new religious expression.  But first, we’ve got to conquer our belief in nothing.

posted by telemachus on November 28, 2005 at 4:39 PM | link to this | reply

Ody

I hate no one, I do not believe in hate and even if I did , I only know you through here on blogit and truly doubt I would ever be able to hate someone through such contact. So no I do not hate you. Why would you think such?

But on to the my reply. You made it very clear that Ajlkhjlk is just another name for your idea of God. You said-

"Many have called the visible truth God, but perhaps you may remember that we at one time developed the term “ajlkhjlk”, as a random term to represent universal truths of goodness, so that atheists and Christians alike might come to agree on something."

That first line speaks a lot of truth about what you are really trying to do here. Also, there was no 'we' in that idea, you were the one who came up with this 'ajlkhjlk' which I believe I said was a good concept at the time, btu never agreed to follow, since even then I saw it for just another name for you idea of God. If I remember correctly we got into trying to determine just what is all part of the goodness and could not agree although you tried to play word games to make it seem that way. once more you kept trying to do a 'black and white' concept for it, while I tried to show you all the gray areas in your thinking. You did not listen to me then and you are not listening to me now.

Ajlkhjlk represents YOUR ideas of goodness and only YOUR ideas. You won't let it represent anything more. Ajlkhjlk is meaningless because it is not open minded and not able to grow, since it is YOUR beliefs. it is not tearing down goodness to try and point this out to you. I give no power to your word, since it is nothing but you trying to deceive others. You will not admit to your trickery and that says a lot.

Can Satanist be part of this Ajlkhjlk? Or Pagans and Wiccians?

I do not worships anything, which is not the same as worshipping nothing. One would have to be part of the act of worshipping to be able to worship nothing. As far as I am concerned there is nothing out there worth worshipping. God, Satan, Allah and Ajlkhjlk are all fictional ideas that have no real power. Nothing to worship, so why worship to begin with?

I only need to compare myself to myself. My greatest competition is me and that is who I must out do time and again in order to grow. When you try to come up with ideas such as your Ajlkhjlk you will either create something unachievable, or something that is so narrow of view that no one should desire to achieve it. In order to grow you can not try to compete against such concepts. instead you should work on your personal growth by making sure you are bettering yourself. You need not label all things as black and white ahead of time in order to define your path, since such prejudging limits you and keeps you from being able to alter that path as you go so that you can truly gain wisdom by being challenged when you do not expect it and seeing new aspects of the world that would not be seen in your prejudge path.

I am not comparing myself to you out of a sense of competition, but to show you that you are falling short of your own desired goals. You keep claiming to be trying for the good, yet you are unable to see the good that is all around you unless it is in your preconceived ideas of what is good. You claim I am lacking the ability to find the good and find peace and such, yet you show that you can not do this yourself. I have to point out to you that if one was to actually listen to my ideas and really pay attention to what I am saying, it should be clear that I am much farther along this path that you are trying to push on me than you are. It is just I have found a path that allows me to be much more open minded and see the world much clearly than you. I do not make such comparisons because I am trying to show you I am better than you or make myself feel high and mighty, but to try and show you the truth that there are many, many paths to this goodness you keep going on about.

"You keep returning to reconstructed edifices like Christianity and Satanism but I'm telling you to construct your own edifice within yourself."

This all started because you could not break away from the reconstructed edifice of Satan and see the good that can be found in studying the beliefs of the Church of Satan. I have already made it clear that I am well away from any Biblical ideas, yet you keep falling back to using them to prove your point. If I had not talked about Satan would you have gotten this weak notion in your head that I am somehow pushing evil ideas? The point ot his post was to show people that they need to get beyond preconceived religious ideas and find the good in all beliefs in order to work together for mutual growth. You just could not stand the idea that I was using the Church of Satan as my example.

posted by kooka_lives on November 28, 2005 at 3:53 PM | link to this | reply

Xeno – I was quite shocked

by the reference to ajlkhjlk as feces.  I simply was wondering if he felt the same way about me.  Does this child have a warm side?

posted by telemachus on November 28, 2005 at 3:29 PM | link to this | reply

i love you ody

you're a great guy i especially love the back and forth between you and kooka. it's one of those things that makes Blogit interesting. now if only we can do something about irrestible force and the immoveable object nobody seems to want to give in.

posted by Xeno-x on November 28, 2005 at 3:24 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka, I was wondering............

Do you hate me?

posted by telemachus on November 28, 2005 at 3:17 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka -

Ajlkhjlk was a term denoted to represent all that is good and right.  Your response is to try to lower it by referring to it as feces.  Clearly your agenda is to trash goodness, but for the life of me, I cannot understand why!  Are you inherently evil?   

 

We tend to become that which we move toward and worship.  If your inclination is, as Zeno says, to worship nothing, then that is what you may logically expect to become. 

 

In the absence of an edifice, like ajlkhjlk, you are left with nothing to compare yourself against, except others.  But you need not hold yourself to comparison against me or anyone else, but rather against that inner vision of goodness that is your own.  When you identify that inner understanding of righteousness as your object of worship, you will never, ever, again, compare yourself to anyone else, for you will have no need to do so. 

 

You keep returning to preconstructed edifices like Christianity and Satanism but I’m telling you to construct your own edifice within yourself.  Only have an edifice, for without one you are lost.  Without one you have no bearings and are left only to wail against all that you see and compare yourself meticulously against anyone who may happen by.

posted by telemachus on November 28, 2005 at 3:13 PM | link to this | reply

Ody

"Pride will be telling you that you don't really need to focus on ajlkhjlk."

You so much more pride than I do. Since I am the one looking for good in all beliefs, while you openly make it clear that there is nothing good outside of your own personal beliefs and that all who look for it elsewhere are just too prideful to see how correct you are.

"Pride will be tell you that you can adhere to goodness without even a second thought, but it takes more than just a second a thought."

No, logic shows me that I should not follow your led if I truly wish to find truth and goodness. You have shown yourself to be greatly lost on that path, but your pride causes you to believe that you have found the only true path that matters.

"It takes focus into a concentrated representation of all that is good, like ajlkhjlk."

Ajlkhjlk is a joke and is meaningless because words have no power. Ideas and actions are what is truly strong. You've already made it clear that ajlkhjlk is nothing more than another name for your idea of God. You are using deceit and trickery here to try and get me to tell you I believe in God just because you went an renamed him. Nothing more. Your ajlkhjlk has the same faults as you idea of God to begin with, since they are not different. You really need to stop worrying about myself, and start looking inwards to see if you are really living up to your own ideas, which I can promise you you are not.

"This focus will keep you directed toward the most important thing in all of life."

Family and friends? Making others happy? Living life to the fullest? Sorry but really there is not one all important thing in life. Life is about a great number of things that need to be focused on. But then again you are so focused on such trivial things and your preconceived ideas of right and wrong, that you just do not get the big picture at all. You have proven that to me many times now.

posted by kooka_lives on November 28, 2005 at 2:56 PM | link to this | reply

of course these people

are also swallowing the extant mythology, believing in a nonexistent being.

posted by Xeno-x on November 28, 2005 at 2:50 PM | link to this | reply

Satan is a myth

people want to personalize lots of things that simply are what you'd call "attributes".

you sort of tongue in cheek say you are interested in Satanism and some seem to believe you.

have to admit son, I taught you good.

basically, the personages of "god" and "satan" are personifications of "good", or that goal of goodness, and "evil", or the bad things we do "the devil made me do it" is one of the more notorious excuses people use for the bad that they do.

just as we want to find a Messiah and lay all our sins on him and crucify him (and find other people that we can use as "scapegoats", or Azazel, on which we lay our sins by noting and relaying that they are less than we are, thus we are good in relation to them [i could write a blog about this]), we also want to personify the evil in this world, laying it on the shoulders of a figure taken out of Greek mythology.  In fact, a lot of the Christian belief is connected in some way to the Greek Mythos, such as the hell of an underworld.

so, son, go on -- indulge.

there is no harm in worshipping nothing.

posted by Xeno-x on November 28, 2005 at 2:47 PM | link to this | reply

Ody

Not your ajlkhjlk junk again. A piece of shit by any other name... The name is as unimportant as it gets. It is the words and actions behind the idea that truly matter. With your ajlkhjlk it becomes a joke, because you do not even follow that, as shown here. You need to start doing that yourself before you try to get others to follow. I am already working much harder towards that then you are. You just are unable to see how your words here are actually working to prevent you from achieving this good you claim to be working towards.

"Why cloud your opinion of goodness with any mythology? "

I do not. Why do you?

"Why not just expound that which you think to be good?"

I do that very much. Where are you getting the idea I do any but that?

"Even if you think everything is, as you say, “gray area”, why not spend your energies sorting through that gray area and helping to shed light on issues that commonly confront people?"

Right, and every time I try to do that believers such as yourself, come in and try to tell me that all is either white or black and must fall into their preconceived ideas, as you have been doing here, no matter how much I try to show you the light.

"It is in this way that we progress toward a vision of the truth."

And you are very much fighting against learning truth here.

And we should also stop using the historically tainted religion called Christianity in this regard as well.

You know you have not addressed a single issue I have brought up. You really are just not listening to me because I keep pointing out that you only will accept things that say you are correct. Anything at all that does to fit with your beliefs are wrong or black as far as you are concerned. You see me as tearing down, when in truth you have to tear down the old, outdated structures, that are weak and falling apart in order to build the better, stronger buildings of the future.

Prove to me Satan is real and is evil. Prove to me that Christianity is any less evil or a better path than the Church of Satan presents. Prove to me that you are open mined and are working towards this good you claim to be after, while you do all you can to discredit all beliefs that are not yours. You really are lost as to just what is needed in order to be working towards this good.

posted by kooka_lives on November 28, 2005 at 2:46 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka…..The main obstacle for you will be pride.

Pride will be telling you that you don’t really need to focus on ajlkhjlk.  Pride will be tell you that you can adhere to goodness without even a second thought, but it takes more than just a second a thought.  It takes focus into a concentrated representation of all that is good, like ajlkhjlk.  This focus will keep you directed toward the most important thing in all of life.  

posted by telemachus on November 28, 2005 at 2:31 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka…..Would you commit to ajlkhjlk today?

Would you come out publicly and profess your allegiance to ajlkhjlk?  Because ajlkhjlk represents a turn from all that is bad, committing to ajlkhjlk will save you.  Can you join me in praising all that is good?  In praising ajlkhjlk?  Can you bring yourself to worship ajlkhjlk by committing fervently to expand ajlkhjlk in yourself and in others? 

posted by telemachus on November 28, 2005 at 1:44 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka -

Much that you say here has no basis and certainly has nothing to do with my comments.  Again, I ask you the simple question:  Why cloud your opinion of goodness with any mythology?  Why not just expound that which you think to be good?  Even if you think everything is, as you say, “gray area”, why not spend your energies sorting through that gray area and helping to shed light on issues that commonly confront people?  It is in this way that we progress toward a vision of the truth. 

 

The incessant tearing away at every visible structure about you is counter-productive.  Instead you should build upon perceptions of goodness that can commonly be employed in the universe and that can, to the greatest extent possible, represent visible truths.  In so doing, you will eventually come to see such beauty in the visible truths that you will want to worship them by making them foremost in your life, such that you endeavor to perpetuate them in yourself and others. 

 

Many have called the visible truth God, but perhaps you may remember that we at one time developed the term “ajlkhjlk”, as a random term to represent universal truths of goodness, so that atheists and Christians alike might come to agree on something.  Remember how we let “ajlkhjlk” represent our mutual term for the combined manifestation of honestly, love, peace, generosity, loyalty, compassion, kindness, and other things?  Did you not become an adherent to “ajlkhjlk” along with all the others?   Anyway, you can clearly now see why you wouldn’t want to use a historically tainted name like Satan in this regard.   Be Good!

posted by telemachus on November 28, 2005 at 1:23 PM | link to this | reply

Ody

So you are saying we should all follow blindly mythological ideas and accept what one or two groups preach as for the beliefs of all?

I very much feel the Church of Satan has a lot of goodness it can teach. Just look at their beliefs and find for me proof that says otherwise.

"Let us seek agreement, not discord."

Yet you are saying that we can only agree with your views of the world if we are seeking the 'good', since you have already labeled everything black and white to begin with. Such logic can only work if both side can allow for flexibility, which you and other believers refuse to do at all. You do not seek agreement, but surrender.

"Stir up optimism in the world, not conflict."

Once more I do not see that at all being promoted by the Christians or yourself. You are looking for reasons to label other groups as 'evil' or 'wrong' and not looking to try and find the good in them and work with them, showing respect and building something better. How is that being optimistic and not trying to create conflict? If you claim a group is evil because you have prelabeled them so, that is very much creating conflict and being pessimistic towards them.

"If you wish to truly pursue goodness then you will, out of simple common sense, abandon the Satanic symbol that so many consider representative of evil."

And people will also then by this logic abandon the Christians' ideas that so many consider representative of evil.

"You must do it, if for no other reason, simply because it exists as a barrier to those with whom you would endeavor to communicate goodness."

Yes, you must do it. Drop the walls you have built around yourself and work towards the goodness instead of trying to push it all away. I keep trying to communicate the goodness to you, yet you have these barriers that prevent me from getting through to you.

"Your focus must become altered from yourself so that you may endeavor to discover how you might best stir up goodness in the world."

My focus is not on myself, but on the big picture of seeing the good in the world and working with respect for all beliefs and faith in order to gain this goodness. I will not prelabel anything as good or evil, since I can clearly see reality and I understand the whole black and white thing just does not work in the real world.

"Let all that you undertake be an endeavor for goodness and soon no room will exist for offensive symbols such as Satan."

But what about the offensive symbol that is Christianity?

You very clearly are wishing to show no respect at all for other beliefs. You are saying, 'let us all agree, but we have to agree that I am right because everyone else is 100% wrong.'

I am not a cattle. I do not follow the herd. Just because everyone else is doing it does not mean I am going to. You keep using that kind of thinking to defend your prejudices and justify blindly labeling people. You have not proven that Satan is evil, or that there even is a Satan. You have not shown me where the beliefs of the Church of Satan are evil. You have done nothing to actually prove your point. All you have done is showed a very closed mind that refuses to take a good hard look at reality.

If humanity had been left to your kind of reasoning, we would still be living on a flat earth, and would be the center of the universe with all the planets and the sun revolving around us, as far as we knew. Our minds would never expand. There is no way the two of us would ever be using the internet, since technology would never be able to advance any where near this far. In fact most likely we would still be cave men living the most brutal and primitive of existences.

I am very glad that in general man kind has not all been the closed minded thinkers you wish to encourage people to be.

posted by kooka_lives on November 28, 2005 at 11:58 AM | link to this | reply

Hi Kooka!

There can be no rational dispute over what a mythological symbol like Satan represents.  Surely everyone who has grown up in the Western world knows what Satan stands for in our culture.  Instead of raving over archaic mythological symbols, our focus should be on goodness. 

 

Let us mutually define what we consider to be good and pursue it.  Let us seek agreement, not discord.  Stir up optimism in the world, not conflict.  If you wish to truly pursue goodness then you will, out of simple common sense, abandon the Satanic symbol that so many consider representative of evil.  You must do it, if for no other reason, simply because it exists as a barrier to those with whom you would endeavor to communicate goodness. 

 

Your focus must become altered from yourself so that you may endeavor to discover how you might best stir up goodness in the world.  One simple way you might move toward doing this is to develop “goodness” as a mantra.  Each night before bed you might just say it over and over several times:  goodness, goodness, goodness, goodness, goodness, goodness.  And then again in the morning when you awaken:  goodness, goodness, goodness, goodness, goodness.  Let all that you undertake be an endeavor for goodness and soon no room will exist for offensive symbols such as Satan.  

posted by telemachus on November 28, 2005 at 11:21 AM | link to this | reply

Ody, wait a moment

Where am I trying to compare myself to you or anyone else for that matter?

You make the claims that I am out of harmony, so I point out it is not me that has the problem with looking for evil everywhere and seeing the world in pure black and white. I do not compare myself to you to find harmony, but to help you see that you are confused and out of sync with reality. I am watching you as you sink in quicksand, telling you you are sinking. You say I must by the one sinking because you have faith you are not. I then say 'You are sinking into the ground while I am not, are you not aware of this?' You claim it is because I do not have the same faith as you that I see you as sinking into the quicksand. So I say 'You are the one who is getting shorter due to less and less of your body being above the ground.' You them tell me I am only make such comparisons because I do not have the faith in the ground you have. So all I can do is keep pointing out you are sinking, as you tell me that you are not because you do not believe you are. Sooner or later you will drown in the sand and no matter who much I try to show you you are sinking, you will not listen to me.

posted by kooka_lives on November 25, 2005 at 7:57 PM | link to this | reply

Ody, you got it wrong big time

Satan is the symbol of evil for the Christian, no one else.

Christianity is a symbol of evil for many around the world as well, so why do you keep justifying?

"A more effective procedure is to expound your goodness under a trademark that is not tainted by thousands of years of psychological prejudice (Which Christianity can be counted among those 'trademarks'). It simply makes no sense to do otherwise UNLESS your mission is to justify EVIL; and if that is the case, why don't you just come right on out and say it? (So are you justifying evil?) If it is not the case, then please abandon the tainted vehicle and use another that is more amicable to me and many others here. (So you want me to follow the herd blindly)"

Okay, once more by that logic why do you justify Christianity?

You are talking about individual perceptions of beliefs. Only if you worry about what other people think of you does this play any real roll in your choices. Finding good is up to the person. So far you have not shown me nay proof outside of the Bible that says Satan is evil and since the Church of Satan does not worship the idea of Satan from the Bible, you whole point becomes even weaker. You are fully going off of the idea that one should follow the heard blindly, believing fully one set of beliefs without question and without looking at the possible good that may come from other beliefs.

I have no clue why you think I am not in harmony. iS it because I do not agree with you views? So is it because I can not see the world as prejudged with all things being black or white before I have a chance to explore them? Is it because I can find the good aspects of all beliefs where you refuse to look for them?

So far you have continued to show a great sense of prejudice that you are unable to grow beyond. You have prelabeled all things based off of once set of beliefs and refuse to allow for the chance that there might be good aspects found in teachings other than the ones you follow. Seriously, the Church of Satan has a lot of teachings that Christians should learn and try to follow so they can grow and become better people, as do all sets of religious beliefs that are out there.

Sure I may rip apart Christianity and focus on the bad in most of my posts here, but I can clearly see the good and I have talked about such in past posts. But Christianity tears apart all faiths that are not theirs and refuses to even try to look for the good in them, fully focusing on the bad in order to discredit those beliefs without giving the good aspects of them a chance.

Why do you keep trying to show me you are not working towards the true goal of the 'good' as you always claim you are? What good comes from your way of thinking? You are unable to accept anything that is not fully in step with your views and label it evil without a second glance. You keep claiming ot be good, yet refuse to look for it in anything butt your own views. Can you not see the hypocritical level you are at when you try to tell me I need to find the good by closing my mind off and blindly following only what you tell me is the good?

Go through the beliefs of the Church of Satan as posted here and find for me they evil ways. Remove the idea of Satan from your reading and look at them as a generic religion, without your preconceived ideas. Show me the evil then.

posted by kooka_lives on November 25, 2005 at 7:46 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka -

Again, we mis-communicate. Satan is the symbol of evil in the minds of many. Trying to justify Satan is therefore the equivalent of trying to justify evil. So why do it?

A more effective procedure is to expound your goodness under a trademark that is not tainted by thousands of years of psychological prejudice. It simply makes no sense to do otherwise UNLESS your mission is to justify EVIL; and if that is the case, why don’t you just come right on out and say it? If it is not the case, then please abandon the tainted vehicle and use another that is more amicable to me and many others here.

I’m glad to know you were kidding about George then. I’m sorry that I did not recognize that right away. I probably do need to improve my sense of humor.

When you are truly in harmony, your definition of yourself will come about as a result of your own, inner justifications, not comparisons with me, or anyone else.

posted by telemachus on November 25, 2005 at 3:15 PM | link to this | reply

Ody

I reject no good aspects of anything and am very much puzzled as to where you are getting this from.

Just because my views do not agree with yours, does not mean my views do not follow good. That really seems to be you main logic. Because I think differently than you, my ideas must be bad because you ideas are the only ones that follow good. Going form that, who is trapped in their box? I can find the good in a lot more things that you can, btu of course I do not see it all as black and white as you do, based off of preset notions coming from just one source.

If anything this reply shows all the more who is the trapped one. For even though I do not believe in Satanism, I still can find the good aspects of it and understand the benefits that could come for follow such a belief systems. You on the other hand accept only the ideas presented by one set, and only one set, of beliefs about Satan. After all the only source that Satan is evil in the Bible and as I said, that is s very untrustworthy source in my eyes. Even if I were to believe the Bible to not be fiction, it would have been written from one group of people's views that are very obviously trying to force their beliefs on everyone else. There is an agenda there based off of fear and blind obedience, and those are things which should never be trusted.

Sorry, but George Bush is some kind of dark force of nature that is purely bent on destroying the American way of life. If there was ever a man that came close to living up to the Christian ideas of an evil force, it would be Bush. A price of lies who is able to put of a show to get many to believe he is doing good, while his actions show him to be out for himself. Also, get a sense of humor. You take things way too literally at times, showing no signs of true understanding of human nature. Do I have to add 'lol' or some other nonsense when I am being sarcastic? In the end I ma sure there is something good about the idiot we have as our president, I just have not seen it yet since he has not shown it to us in his quest to ruin the country.

My mind is in harmony and it is as open as it gets. I clearly am more aware of reality than you are and am much more at peace with the world, since I am not looking for evil around every corner. You are the one who is showing prejudice and closed mindedness on many , many levels here.

posted by kooka_lives on November 24, 2005 at 7:43 AM | link to this | reply

Kooka -

I think that you are so deeply entangled in the very mythology that you outwardly try to reject that your thinking goes askew. The very doctrines and mythology that you proclaim to reject form a box about you that you cannot seem to think outside of.

You must move beyond the limitations of your perception of paradoxical characters, so that you are not forced to reject good aspects, only because of incongruent issues in your logic. This is nowhere more apparent than in your statement that “George Bush has no good to find in him at all.” It is ridiculous to contend that there is not one iota of goodness in somebody! You must understand that the liberal ideaology and atheism to which you subscribe are causing you to be jerked into a bland and hateful sort of world ,where you automatically close your mind against much goodness.

I strongly encourage you to seek the “good” in all things, but you must first conquer your prejudices. Don’t become a proponent of Satanism only because of your zeal to stand in opposition to God. I’ll leave you with this quote:

“When the mind is not in harmony, the divine communion is hard to attain; but the man whose mind is in harmony attains it, if he knows and if he strives.” –Bhagavad-Gita

posted by telemachus on November 24, 2005 at 12:39 AM | link to this | reply

Ody

'Good' and 'Evil' in the manner you are talking about is purely based on point of view. Having studied the Bible, outside of the claims that Satan is evil, I found no real proof of such. God does many, many evil deeds in the Bible, while Satan gets called evil and the prince of lies, yet he really does nothing. A very one sided argument because we only get the point of view of God and his followers. So by decision that the ideas presented by the Bible claiming Satan to be evil, in is basically doing nothing more than be racist to make decide that worshipping Satan is evil.

So are Pagans evil? They had bad press thanks to Christian propaganda, as do Druids and Wiccian. yet all those groups are about nature and such. The Church of Satan is actually more like the Pagans than anything tied to the Biblical ideas of Satan.

Satan is only linked to being evil by the Christians and other modern religions. The Jews do not believe in him at all, as do most other religions. It is purely one point of view.

I have yet to see proof that Satan is evil. And since I do not buy into the style of thinking that says I must have a closed mind and not be willing to accept that possibility of good in all religious beliefs, I am unable to buy into your logic, which as far as I can figure is no different that racial stereotyping.

At no point did I say I would farego the good for clicks. It is just looking at the problems (Which is a good thing) with religious ideas get more attention than to say all is perfect, especially when it is far from being so. I am lost as to where you feel my posts here are anything but focusing on a greater good for all. This once more comes down to each person's point of views I guess. If I were to say how evil and horrible the beliefs of Satanist are, you most likely would sit back and say how nice it is that I am finally seeing the light. That would be the herd mentality which I have never followed. Since I see Satanist as being great victims of bad propaganda, I am more likely to do a greater good by showing how they are misjudged. It is a greater good to not follow the herd most of the time.

Here am I seeing the good in Satanism and you are saying I do not see the good in things. You are a very pessimistic person.

"George Bush" has no good to find in him at all. 'sound business principals' I have yet to attack, I go after irresponsible Big Business that is tearing down our society and ruining our economy because they are too worried about the big profit here ad now and not thinking about the future. Sorry, but that is not sound business principles. 'Proper religion' is that according to your point of view or other people's?

You very much are trapped in the world of your were all is white or black, right ot wrong. You have preset all the levels so that you know right away where something fits without question. More and more I do believe you are afraid of reality and seeing the world for how it really is. You have already set these standards for yourself that just are truly unrealistic. I think that is why you can not see the greater good of it all and only wish to see my views as all being in the black or wrong side of things. Since nothing can be gray in your world, that is all there is.

Oh, I do not go to much in the way of sporting events, since they are really boring for the most part. And even though I live in Colorado, I would not call myself a Bronco's fan. Sure it is great when the do well, but I really don't care. So sports analogies are really silly in my view. Just so you know.

Oh, and I already see nothing really wrong with cannibalism in itself. if I had only human meat to eat to keep myself alive I really do not think I would have any problem with that at all. The killing part would be hard for me. As for Human sacrifices, since I do not believe in the Bible, I really see no point to sacrifices of any kind and never will. I always find it so amusing when believers criticize such practices though, since in the old Testament God demanded such, animal and human.

So now I really must write a great, positive post that show the greatness that is Satanism. You have helped me see the light and understand that I need to be optimistic and focus on the good and positive aspects of all things. I follow that up by showing how peaceful Wiccian and Paganism are. I'll have to also go on about the positive power of Buddhism. You are just so right that I need to be focusing on all that is positive out there.

posted by kooka_lives on November 23, 2005 at 8:08 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka - I think perhaps you missed my point.

Regardless of whether it is in fact “good” or “evil”, there is no question that satanic worship is widely perceived as evil and has been for countless ages. So, unless you’re wishing to support evil, it’s like trying to play for the Denver Bronco’s in a Miami Dolphins uniform. It just ain’t right! It’s self-contradictory.

And I know you must have been kidding about the clicks, right? Do you realize that you just said you would forego goodness for clicks? Is that what you call wisdom?

Buddy, I’ve been reading you for a long time, and I have yet to see a fragment of optimism. You tear down everything you put your hands to, from George Bush to sound business principals to proper religion. What I’m talking about is habitually looking for the good in everything that you encounter. Stop waving the Dolphins game banner around while proclaiming to be a Bronco!

Come on bloggers, let’s give this kid some clicks, before he starts wailing in support of human sacrifice or cannibalism.

posted by telemachus on November 23, 2005 at 5:23 PM | link to this | reply

Ody

I keep swearing you have been a long time reader of my stuff, and yet time and time again it seems you are not. I have focused on positive religious ideas many times here. But as I have also explained in the past, we do not remember the positive as much as the negative. I could honestly write a dozen posts that show the positive about religion for every one that focuses on the negative, and yet no on will remember the positive ones. This post here is really a positive one to tell the truth. Sure it is positive about a religion you believe to be evil, which may be what you seem to not understand it to be positive, but it is.

ALso, I want the clicks. Seriously no one is going to click on my posts if I suddenly only talked about the good aspects of religious beliefs. When I do, my blog does not get much attention.

There is also the issue that there is only so much that can be said in the positive since it is very limited. if all you do is focus on the good part you end whit very little you can say that is not being said all over the place by believers, and it is already old when they say it..

You won't accept Satanism because you feel it is vile, yet you are unwilling to admit the vileness of Christianity. Form my studies Satanism has caused much less harm to the world than Christianity has. Have you studied Satanism? Did you read what I had in this post here that was their beliefs and ideals? I saw nothing truly vile there. Their beliefs show that their Satan is not evil, but a neutral force of nature that can be used to help mankind. And much of what they believe is not rejected by the world, unless you do not hold life as being sacred, which is a foundation for their beliefs. You are very much stereotyping them without looking into what their beliefs are.

You will most likely not find a more optimistic person than I. And these posts are not pessimistic at all. They are truthful and ask the hard questions, challenging things in order to understand them. You can not do that if you only look for what is being done right.

Stop living in fear and start really gaining the knowledge so that not only can you act wise, but you can really be wise.

posted by kooka_lives on November 23, 2005 at 3:59 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka_lives - Well you have some very valid points here but

I think they exemplify what I’m trying to say and why we have differences.  Instead of trying to find what’s “wrong” with the movie, why not concentrate on what is “right” with the movie?  Instead of always concentrating on what’s “wrong” with religion, why not, at least every once in a while, say some of the things that are “right” about religion. 

 

You know that I’m all for exploring divergent religions. But never, ever, would I even consider crediting something as vile as Satanism as even being a religion.  Why?  Because it’s obviously designed to appeal to what the majority of the world chooses to reject.  It would be like trying to digest feces.  It goes against common sense to purposefully choose an icon that represents evil unless you wish to stand for evil. 

 

Anyway, as always, I appreciate the discourse with you and hope that you understand that my point here is that often “optimism” serves as a better analytical tool than “pessimism”, because it focuses your concentration on what works, not on what doesn’t work.      

posted by telemachus on November 23, 2005 at 3:33 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka-lives,

Very interesting post.  I think it would add a completely different perspective on things by being able to attend different religious services; it'd be a way to understand them better.  I had some ideas I was going to post as I was reading through the comments, but it seems that many of them were already discussed.  I was going to say that Satanism is the worship of an ancient pagan diety and that it very much is like ethical egoism.  They do not worship the devil, as many Christians are led to believe; the worship of the actual devil is called Luciferianism and it is completely different from Satanism.

posted by SirBryantheLion on November 23, 2005 at 12:27 PM | link to this | reply

Gomedome

I agree for the most part organized religions really do not care about following through with their messages. They are just businesses after all. They are seem much more focused on making money and getting followers than actually doing what is right.

But still, the live naked woman alter is the main selling point for me on this one. Any religion that makes sure you have to focus on a naked woman when you worship has got to be thinking in the right direction.

posted by kooka_lives on November 23, 2005 at 9:45 AM | link to this | reply

Ody

Why are you so afraid of other beliefs? My personal beliefs are strong, most likely stronger than yours because I am not afraid to look into other beliefs. I am tearing nothing down, but exploring and asking questions.

My step father and I have a habit that bothers some. After we see a movie we really will rip it apart. Even if we totally enjoyed the movie and think it is great, we will find the flaws in and will we debate what we think could have been done better and what was done really well. We ask questions about what worked and what did not work. No one can tear apart a movie like me and my step-father. And we know that some people are annoyed by this because they just do not want to think so much when they watch a movie. We do not do this because we are trying to tear down the movie and show people how bad it is. We do this because there is something to gain by figuring out what works and what does not. When you take a movie and figure out what worked to make that a good movie and what aspect kept the movie from being as good as it could have been it just allows for a better understanding of the movie as a whole.

Obviously who are afraid of a better understanding of religion because when I ask questions or show ideas such as the core ideas of the Church of Satan really not being much different than the than those of traditional Christianity, you get afraid. You try to to claim I am tearing things down because I have no beliefs of my own and need to act childish by trying to hurt others in some way.

I keep trying to explain that I question everything. If one wishes to understand the world better they have to. The have to rip apart ideas, concepts and religions n order to get to the truth of them all and see just what it is that makes this world run.

I have time and time again stood up for what I believe in here. I have written post that very much go into the core beliefs of my life. You being a long time reader are puzzling me that you have not read those posts. I'll have to find one and repost it just for you.

In the end you need to learn to not be so afraid of questions and exploration of beliefs. Wisdom does not come from accepting one set of views and deciding that those views are 100% correct no matter what and never need to be questioned. That is ignorance, nothing more. By getting out and learning all the idea of world and the concepts people follow and questioning it all to find the good and bad with-in, that is how you are going to gain wisdom. I hope to some day be a wise person, but I would never reach that level if I were to follow the advice you are trying to give me here.

posted by kooka_lives on November 23, 2005 at 9:39 AM | link to this | reply

Ariala

Well sis, those disturb tees aren't part of the Church of Satan, since they make it very clear that life is scarred to them and they od not perform any sacrifices of any kind. All that is is disturb teens who are going to do such things any ways, they just play at the game of calling themselves Satanist.

As fore the services being boring. That wouldn't surprise me one bit. All religious services are boring. At least with the Church of Satan if they do the traditional service you get a live naked woman for your alter and that alone would be worth going to one for.

posted by kooka_lives on November 23, 2005 at 9:22 AM | link to this | reply

this is where you ought to separate the wheat from the chaff, the beans from the weeds.
the fire of testing and proving and disproving will bring for the best.
with all these things, the best is but a small part -- the stalk and leaves are more of the plant than the actual fruit is. so we find the fruit and enjoy it.
that is what religion is like.
son, some people just don't have a sense of humor.
ody took you too seriously.
oh well
why am i so sleepy.

posted by Xeno-x on November 23, 2005 at 8:34 AM | link to this | reply

Kooka -

I often wonder why you have the iconoclastic approach to everything. Why not just stand for what you believe? Of course, if you have no belief, that leaves nothing else for you to do but to tear down that which you see around you. I like this comment of yours:

“For the most part the central ideas of all religion are interchangeable, since they all really are working towards the same goals of creating a fulfilling life. It is just there are many, many paths to that same destination.” –Kooka_lives

In this respect, tout the path that creates the fulfilling life for Kooka. That is your belief. It need not be defined in relation to any other established religion. It is what it is! But for it to indeed be, it has to be.

posted by telemachus on November 23, 2005 at 12:11 AM | link to this | reply

kooka, way back when I visited several of their websites and read some of

their literature for research...I used to listen to a radio talk show host by the name of Bob Larson, a Christian minister, who used to always confront Satanists and do excorcisms...he even interviewed some on his radio show.  He was like the Jerry Springer of Christian radio and once you tuned in, it was hard to turn it off.  I laughed a lot, because of his sensationalism and confrontational methods, but despite it all, learned a lot about the Satanists.  Those he interviewed included Anton LeVay's daughter.  Mostly her, and other Satanic religious leaders, were intellectual/philophical Satanists...As a Christian, I admit, it baffled me that anyone would want to join such an organization.  Then I begin reading Ayn Rand books and realized later, from Satanic websites that they LOVE her work...why?  Because she promotes the SELF...Satanists do the same. 

What I found disturbing about what Anton LeVay's daughter said was the networks being setup across the country, working behind the scenes in government and positions of leadership in business, to bring in some strange changes.  She wouldn't say what, but she mentioned genetics, human robot/slaves and all kinds of other weird stuff.  

Unfortunately, disturbed teens and antisocials have gotten into Satanism and performed ritualistic, violent acts which shows the ultimate extreme of this belief system.  I get emails from a network online that keeps track of these ritualistic murders and activities by Satanic cults and etc.  Some are linked to officials in high places.  It's quite disturbing.  These emails aren't from a Christian source, but they don't exclude Christian subjects...they report on all things paranormal, UFOs, mind control, ritualistic abuse, false memories, and etc.

Okay, looks like I've rambled long enough.  Oh, one more thing...I knew an atheist who attended a Satanic church in CA only once...he said it was boring and he never went back. 

posted by Ariala on November 22, 2005 at 8:33 PM | link to this | reply

kooka_lives -- then there is the other consideration that pertains to all

beliefs and idealogies. The vast majority of adherants talk a good show but soon lose sight of the important aspects in the underlying message.

posted by gomedome on November 22, 2005 at 8:16 PM | link to this | reply

Gomedome

What I have learned since writing the post is that they actually do not worship the Satan presented in the Bible, but an older idea based on Pagan beliefs. For them Satan is not an entity, but a force of nature. Most likely you are right and they would have gotten more follower but less attention if they had decided to not use that name. A least with Satanism you do not get all that unbelievable fiction in it. Instead you get 'magic' and 'spells' and such, which are equally unbelievable.

In the end the basic ideas are just like any other religion out there. For the most part the central ideas of all religion are interchangeable, since they all really are working towards the same goals of creating a fulfilling life. it is just there are many, many path to that same destination.

You have to admit though, that if you wanted to go to a religious service, one where they use a live naked woman for the alter would be one worth going to. At least if you got bored you would have something good to look at.

posted by kooka_lives on November 22, 2005 at 8:11 PM | link to this | reply

Ody

You're right. I should not have an open mind. How dare I look at all the alternatives. Even if I see that Satanism makes more sense than Christianity, it is evil to have such an open mind about such things. I should just let one book tell me everything I need to know and leave ti with that.

It is actually comments like that which make me want to go and become an active Satanist for a little bit just so I can really get some of you here panicked.

Find for me in the ideas presented by the Satanists where they are any less working towards the 'good'. Remember I said 'ideas presented by the Satanists', not the Christian ideas of them, which I have learned much of what is claimed about the Church of Satan by various Christians is fully misinformation based on nothing at all from the actual teaching of the CoS. And this was presented by a third party group which explores all religions equally.

posted by kooka_lives on November 22, 2005 at 8:04 PM | link to this | reply

kooka_lives -- I can help you with what the "mating" signal is

That's when you walk upstairs to the bedroom and your wife doesn't click the lights off and pretend she's asleep when she hears you coming.....seriously I get the point being made in this posting. A central diety, some philisophical guidelines and rules sprinkled with common sense and a few things that don't quite jive.....there is not much difference between this church and any other. The only big difference is that these knuckleheads are attempting to garner subscription to a losing cause.  You just can't sell the prince of darkness the same way, nor to nearly as many people, as the messiah.  They would have had a lot more success over the years, if they had picked a less notorious figure to worship/sell. 

posted by gomedome on November 22, 2005 at 6:15 PM | link to this | reply

First you banish God from your psyche,

and now you begin the slow descent into Satanic worship. Why dear boy, can’t you see? Why can’t you see the good?


Romans 9:21-23

Surely the potter can do what he likes with the clay. Is he not free to make two vessels out of the same lump, one to be treasured, the other for common use? But if it is indeed God's purpose to display his retribution and to make his power known, can it be that he has with great patience tolerated vessels that were objects of retribution due for destruction, precisely in order to make known the full wealth of his glory on vessels that were objects of mercy, prepared from the first for glory?

posted by telemachus on November 22, 2005 at 5:54 PM | link to this | reply

well you gotta make the sacrifices of virgins to me --

posted by Xeno-x on November 22, 2005 at 1:59 PM | link to this | reply