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I give up.
Happy Thanksgiving.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 24, 2005 at 5:59 AM
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Janes
Is thus some great ego trip you are on, are can you just not read what I write clearly?
First off I said "I know, you conservatives want to see the working class turned in to slaves, who work for next to nothing and die young from working their lives away, producing a lot of kids so you can keep you slave class going strong generation after generation, as the big wigs sit back and live the high life off of the hard work of others." I never said you said such, it is just as obvious as it can get by your views. When you are very much against fair wages and benefits for the working class and pushing the idea that the rich have every right to rip off their employees for great wealth, that is all you can be trying for. It is just putting two and two together and getting four.
Second, I do not defend unions at all. I have said that due to Big Business not wanting to be responsible and not caring about the employees, unions became needed. Right now they re really just the same as the Big Businesses they fight against. They just wear a really good mask. if Big Business would act responsible and show the slightest amount of integrity and do what was right for all, then unions would not be needed. Since that is never going to happen due to the ideas you and others defend, we are going to have to live with unions and their inflexibility. I very much agree with you about unions. What you said about unions very much shows that they act just like the Bib businesses you are defending do. They only care about their short term gain here and now and are not worrying about the future. I have yet to disagree with you that unions are not really doing what they are suppose to be doing.
No, you never said you backed up CEOs, yet you blame the working class for the lay offs, as if they were behind it all and stood to gain from them. Sorry, btu when you blame the wrong people you are defending those whoa re really guilty and are the ones who cause the problems, the CEOs. I can promise you that the big lay offs that take place are only adding to the bonuses of the CEOs and are the number one reason why they have those lay offs. All the CEOs' care about is their own outrageous salaries and bonuses and they very often gain those at the cost of everyone they can. As long as you try to blame the working class for wanting fair wages and good benefits, you are defending the big wigs who are making millions off of the lay offs. If they would be willing to accept a few million less in pay, there would be no need for layoffs since that could pay the salaries of many, many employees for a full year.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 23, 2005 at 8:23 PM
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Sheesh Kooka, where in the heck did I talk about wanting blue collar workers to be slaves???????????????????????????????????????????????????? Again, you make huge, massive assumptions that annoy the heck out of me!
OK, you want to know what frosts my cookies? It's this: unions are incredibly inflexible. Look at the airlines. A couple of them (sorry, I don't remember which but I'm thinking Delta was one) desperately tried to win concessions from the unions to help them avoid bankruptcy. But NO the union would not bend, so the company went into bankruptcy. Delphi Automotive requested its union members to take a cut in pay/concessions like they'd done with their other employees. Would the union help out? NOOOOOOOOOOO. All I see is inflexibility and an unwillingness to help meet the needs of the company to help the entire company. Isn't it better to avoid bankruptcy than to potentially be without work?
And again, where the HECK did I EVER mention that I'm all for CEOs making huge sums of money? HAVE I EVER SAID THAT????? NO, NO, NO. I think they should be well compensated for a good job. They work hard, they've climbed the ladder, most are brilliant leaders . . . but do they need hundreds of millions of $$$ in compensation? NO! NADA! NOT! 
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 23, 2005 at 7:29 PM
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Good Post.
Often when a company is having a bad year, it is
because of the big wigs, and yet they are the ones with the power to just blame it on the economy and continue their lay-offs.
posted by
Trevor_Cunnington
on November 23, 2005 at 3:31 PM
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Janes
While i will admit your post inspired me, the full idea of the post come form what I have seen from conservatives in general.
As for your $100,000 a year people, I would like to see the figures on that one. I know of many people who have good union jobs that make no where near that amount of money. From what I got form your post my guess is that the figure was just someone ranting away because his life was so unfair. I would also like to see the figures about job safety for them compared to your collage boys. After all it I was working in something like auto manufacturing where there is a higher chance of a serious accident that might cripple me for life, I better being getting paid fairly well to take the risk of coming to work to begin with. Your college boys do not really risk that much by doing office work.
I have a college degree and can't do jack with it. Not because of the union people or because of the average working class guy who is just trying to get by, but because of Big Wigs who do not care and are only looking to make a few extra bucks. College degrees are more or less unless pieces of papers today, because it is all about who you know more than anything else.
Also, you were trying to blame the working class for the lay offs and did not even look into the kind of bonuses the big wigs of that company were getting for saving all that money by doing those lay offs. By that you were defending them while saying it was the fault of the working class. You are pointing the finger at those who are working hard to provide for their families and not looking at the millions CEOs who are just after a bigger bonuses this year and do not care one bit if they have to lay off a bunch of people to get that bonuses.
Do you have something against the working class living comfortably? or do you just want to make sure that CEOs get richer? As I said I do not like unions myself because of what they have become, but if Big Business was able to show integrity and be willing to not care about making the rich richer, but instead pay fair wages and give fair benefits, then this would never be a problem.
Also, are you saying that guy who goes in for a 40 hour work week in a manufacturing job who wants to be paid well is trying to cheat the company? Sorry, but hard work should be rewarded with fair pay. You make it sound like any kind of job that people get with out college degree should just pay minimum wage. Those guys who work such jobs do more real work in a week that people like President Bush do in their whole life time. If we paid base off of productive work, Bush would be making next to nothing as would most CEOs and your college boys.
I know, you conservative want to see the working class turned in to slaves, who work for next to nothing and die young from working their lives away, producing a lot of kids so you can keep you slave class going strong generation after generation, as the big wigs sit back and live the high life off of the hard work of others.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 22, 2005 at 7:57 PM
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I Agree
I agree with you. Unfortunatley most unions today have lost their efectiveness as the companies have them in thier pocket.
posted by
Comedian
on November 22, 2005 at 7:00 PM
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Yeah, so it's fair for a high school drop out to be making $100,000+/ year doing very little while a brilliant, extremely hard working engineer with a Master's degree in physics is making around $70,000?? Well then if that's the case, then GO UNIONS! Let's support cradle to grave benefits via unions and let's NOT support those who have busted their butts to go to college and graduate school, who have the creativity and abilities to design and craft the products for which America has been known. Yeah, as usual, your very emotional response makes so much sense. I'm all for supporting blue collar workers and providing them with a decent salary. It's the welfare mentality of the same unions that annoys the cr_p out of me.
I know you're responding, at least in part, to my post -- although you don't seem to have the guts to comment -- but did I mention anything about being in SUPPORT of overpaid CEOs? NO. Do I support these overpaid CEOs? NO.
Gotta love your backhanded stab in the back, Kooka. As usual, you've made a mighty huge Kooka sized jump to conclusions.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 22, 2005 at 7:00 PM
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