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Yes, kooka. You are exactly right.
posted by
Renigade
on November 22, 2005 at 12:07 PM
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R-3
I very much understand. That is the real problem here. I know what you are saying 100% clearly. The problem is you have this wall built up out of your beliefs that keep you from grasping the reality of what it is I am saying. You are looking for insult at a level that is not there, as do many believers. Yet you are unable to see that those of your faith have already shown greater disrespect to all other beliefs for centuries now and are refusing to accept that truth. Believers forcing their beliefs on others has been happening since before I was born. The disrespect shown by Christians is much greater than you are willing to admit and tower far above a small, harmless comment about the Bible being full of B.S.
It is not me personally that does not get respect, but my beliefs, my faith. I do all I can to show more respect than I receive. My use of 'B.S.' was not disrespectful because of the manner in which it was used. You refuse to understand that and wish to give a few simple letter more power than they truly should have.
You clearly do not grasp just what respect is and how respect is shown. You just are unable to break through the wall of religious ideas that is keeping you blind. You are not a bad person and I do not believe you wish to be disrespectful, but you just do not understand the reality of it.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 22, 2005 at 11:55 AM
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Wow...
Just stopped in and all I can say is, "why can't we all just get along", oops I know why, it's called religion.
posted by
RckyMtnActivist
on November 22, 2005 at 11:23 AM
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kooka--If you do not get respect, then I would begin to question myself
if I were you. You obviously will never understand, nor care to. And that's fine.
posted by
Renigade
on November 22, 2005 at 10:58 AM
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R-3
You very much do not understand what I am saying. The us of B.S. is only going to be offensive if you allow those two little letters to have power over you. Such a simple comment should be easy to brush off due to the simplest nature of the remark. If someone were to tell me that atheism was B.S. I would just laugh and move on because such a statement very clearly is just a personal view that holds no weight. That is what I said why I said what I said. It was meant to be viewed as a personal view that should have been easy to ignore. I'll try to point this out to you once more that I often make what should truly be considered insulting comments about the Bible that go in to detail about how I view it as piss poor fiction. Those comments should be much harder to ignore because that are much harsher and are meant to be. I am finding it very silly that we are still at it on this one.
Stop giving the two letters B.S. so much power. They really are meaningless, that is why I used them as I did.
It is not the existence of Christianity I find offensive, but the everyday pushing of the beliefs on everyone as if you are making a huge mistake for not believing as they do. If Christians were willing to be respectful and cut down they need to force their beliefs on everyone, then there would be no problem. Let them stick to their churches and homes and such. But no, Christians want to makes sure their beliefs are part of every aspect they can get their hands into. They want the impression that our court system is run based on their faith. They want to be everywhere and if anyone protests them they make a media circus of it trying to claim they are being victimized. I very rarely see mutual respect coming from the Christian churches. If that were the case there would be no problem with removing the Ten Commandments from government buildings. If that were the case we would no longer have people going around handing out pamphlets and trying to convert people. Christians seem to be far from wanting their faith to be a personal thing, but instead want it forced on everyone else to the point that they feel outcasted if they do not believe. There is no respect in that at all.
I show a great deal of respect. I do have yet to see you leave any comments defending atheists on the posts of the past that have said atheists are stupid and full of B.S. or evil and immoral. You've been here long enough that there have been posts that you could have responded to. I have yet to make any posts that is purely generalization with the full intent of attacking believers, yet I have seen a good deal of posts during my time here where believers have done pure generalizations on atheism claiming it to be evil and immoral and so on with nothing more than religious beliefs to back them up. I do not know if you can find any of those posts now, since many of those bloggers have left. But bloggers like P.I.M.P. and Redstatesman often called atheists stupid and ignorant. In fact I believe it was P.I.M.P. who said I was 'mildly retarded' because I was an atheist.
I already know for a fact that I show believers a great deal of respect compared to what I get from them here on Blogit and in real life, where in general Christians show little if any respect for any beliefs that do not agree with theirs. If my comment about the B.S. of the Bible is all you have found to say I lack respect, then you have found nothing. You are giving too much power to two simple letters that were used to fit with the style of the post in a manner that was meant to be easy for believers to brush off.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 22, 2005 at 7:59 AM
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ALL RIGHT RENIGADE
I hope you realize that many Christians reject the crucifix itself outright. probably a majority of them in the U.S. -- and use the unadorned Cross.
others reject the cross as a pagan symbol since it does predate Jesus as a religious symbol.
too many people live in this narrow present in relation to certain things without seeing the historic connection.
that is a problem.
in fact, the fish was regarded as the symbol of believers for quite a while before the cross/crucifix was adopted.
and the Bible? that also reads differently to different Christians.
it is not an absolute document, else we wouldn't have so many differences in the Christian religion.
What one denomination holds sacred is totally discounted and regarded as basically refuse to another.
if you can with validity tell me why this is so, why it shouldn't be so, and why what you believe is more valid than what other Christians believe, then I think many of us would joyfully join in upholding your own personal beliefs.
posted by
Xeno-x
on November 22, 2005 at 7:36 AM
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kooka lives,
Mission Impossible? Trying to shine light into a space filled with a brighter light - brighter than the "light of this world."
posted by
Maine-iacPreacher
on November 22, 2005 at 5:09 AM
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Kooka--My faith holds up just fine to having the Bible called B.S.
Let me state ONE MORE TIME that you have claimed over and over that Christians have been disrespectful of your views by (if memory serves me correctly) name-calling, trying to "save" you, etc... You have also stated that you desire a society more tolerent of other's views.
You can't have this until you do it yourself! I won't stop reading you or interacting with you just because you called the Bible B.S. But, let me say it AGAIN, the Bible is a major SYMBOL of Christianity. You cannot refute that. Thus, as a SYMBOL of Chirstianity, for you to call it B.S. only closes (I'm having to say this AGAIN) the doors you CLAIM you want to open. How can there be any room for "growth" among athiests and Christians if you choose to call something they hold in highest esteem "B.S."?
Okay, you said that to your friend in private conversation. I get that. But you chose to put it out here in a public forum. You can't have it both ways, kooka. You can't say that you want open dialogue and then not even be able to understand that your words shut the very doors you claim to want to open.
And Christianity is offensive to you? Let's get our stories straight, because I'm confused... The mere EXISTENCE of Christianity ( and Christian symbols) is offensive to you? If this is the case, then you must lighten up, my friend. You see, your existence and your denial of God are NOT offensive to me. Athiesm, Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, etc... are NOT offensive to me. I don't look at a Star of David and suddenly feel "offended". I don't look at my athiest cousin and think, "Gosh, his objection to putting up Christmas decorations is offensive to me." I'm happy with my faith and my religion, and I'm happy for others with theirs.
Other belief systems don't offend me. Belittling other people's chosen faith (no matter what it is) does.
And for the record...
If someone wrote a post here (and I saw it) that stated, "All athiests lack intelligence and are following B.S., I would take the SAME stance. It's not about MY religion or lack of it. It's about showing mutual respect.
Period.
Your turn...
posted by
Renigade
on November 21, 2005 at 6:51 PM
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R-3
No, there is no difference. By you claiming that the Bible is the word of God , you are pissing on my beliefs just as much. I very much do not believe anyone should give such doctrines that kind of power. To me it is a symbol of insult towards my beliefs to hold the Bible as being a great truth. Part of the issue with this comes from you not seeming to able to grasp that. You feel that because I do not have a belief in any kind of higher power, that somehow I should not be offend by anything religious, while just the opposite is true. It is an insult and shows great disrespect to my beliefs for the Ten Commandments to be displayed in any government building. It is a great insult to my beliefs and shows a lack of respect for our currency to have 'In God we Trust' on it. It is an insult and disrespectful to my beliefs at any time for religious ideas to create laws that take away freedoms. It is an insult and disrespectful to my beliefs to be told by anyone that the Bible is any form of truth,
Seriously it should be a greater insult for me to call the Bible a poorly written piece of fiction than to call it B.S. When I get technical and say it is piss poor fiction, that is much more to the point and detailed showing its flaws and tearing it apart, while just calling it B.S. can be much more easily dismissed and just personal views.
The thing is you are giving power to words. B.S. is meaningless unless you give power to it. I gave no power to it when I wrote it. I used it because it fit with the feel I was going for, not because I was going for any kind of insult. You are giving too much power to my use of B.S.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 21, 2005 at 6:05 PM
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Kooka--Let me state this again, since you obviously did not get
what I was saying...
The Bible is a holy SYMBOL. It is a SYMBOL of Christianity, just like the CRUCIFEX is a symbol. Calling the Bible B.S. is akin to peeing on the crucifex. It's disrespectful. I don't ask you to cover up your beliefs, I just stated that--for someone who want to maintain all of this open communication--calling someone's religious SYMBOL B.S. closes more doors than it opens. I've stated over and over that I don't believe in atheism. But never, NEVER have I called your beliefs B.S. See the difference?
posted by
Renigade
on November 21, 2005 at 5:44 PM
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