Comments on Ripped Off. Is This A Writer's Worst Nightmare?

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MayB
I guess all your friend can do is explain to the author her disgust. I'd still go on and write the story myself (in my own words) if I felt as close to it as your friend claims to be.

posted by Joe_Love on November 24, 2005 at 8:56 PM | link to this | reply

Why is there something in me which doesn't give a "rip?"...

posted by cmoe on November 18, 2005 at 11:44 AM | link to this | reply

Dave Cryer, I think she leeched rather than leached. You are spot on
in your assessment of this. I think that it is best she doesn't get into some public slanging match but I think that she should drop the class and she should tell the woman why. Then at least the teacher might think twice about using that story widely.

posted by Azur on November 18, 2005 at 9:54 AM | link to this | reply

There are two arguments here, I'd say. One to do with being a writer. The second to do with being a teacher.

On the writing side, I would tell her to write the story anyway. I think that ideas get sucked into thinking minds consciously and subconsciously and that all of us who write are using the ideas of others in some form or other, otherwise we wouldn't be writing. I do believe that there is no such thing as an original idea, only unique representations of old ideas. The best case in point would be Shakespeare himself, whose story ideas were filched left, right and centre. He just told them better.

I would say to her to write it her own way. If anyone was to pull her up for being unoriginal, she could have a private or public conversation in defence of her work citing the idea-heist if she wanted to, but I'd still say to her that her idea was not an immaculate conception, but a suffusion of her own experience - just accept it and get on with writing her own version.

I won't go into it here or this comment will be miles too long, but I had to swallow the bitter pill of my own advice very recently. It hurts that someone's used your idea. But it's not a crime and it's not plagiarism. As many have said below, you cannot copyright ideas.

The teacher-trust element is separate, I feel. The teacher leached off her student. As a student, I would never go to that class again, never respect that teacher's intentions again. It's a gross betrayal of trust. I probably wouldn't even read her work again, I'd be so personally upset by the breach of trust.

Mikebrown's idea sounds the best. I'm going to write that best seller Mike. And then I'm going to use the proceeds to build myself a castle with an anti-Mike moat around it.

posted by _dave_says_ack_ on November 18, 2005 at 1:15 AM | link to this | reply

Malcolm, the difficulty is in knowing what outcome she should seek.
I think it's easy enough to prove and the author has admitted it but working out an outcome that benefits my friend is what needs to be worked out

posted by Azur on November 17, 2005 at 1:01 PM | link to this | reply

I'd advise her to seek recognition
It's obviously difficult in class but if I've written something I feel has some publishable merit I always mail it to myself by registered post to prove posting date and destination before mailing it off to the prospective publisher/broadcaster.

posted by malcolm on November 17, 2005 at 12:52 PM | link to this | reply

MikeBrown, excellent. I agree that it lends itself to some dramatic exploitation

posted by Azur on November 16, 2005 at 9:04 PM | link to this | reply

i would kill the popular author

and then write a story about how i killed her.  it would be called "that's what you get for stealing my ideas, wench." 

i smell a bestseller...

posted by mikebrown on November 16, 2005 at 6:52 PM | link to this | reply

Silvermoon7, the author has already confessed to the student but seems to expect the student to be content to know that.

posted by Azur on November 16, 2005 at 5:12 PM | link to this | reply

POetjpb, you must do so. You need to make it very clear to them the limits of what you will use. In writing my book, all of the people I interview will be signing a contract which sets ensures a clear understanding that I am using the info they shared with me in a book and nowhere else.

posted by Azur on November 16, 2005 at 5:10 PM | link to this | reply

I am thinking of having students and parents sign

permission to use their writing if I write a book about my teaching experience.

I am always hestitant to use things without permission. 

posted by poetjpb on November 16, 2005 at 4:21 PM | link to this | reply

I agree...that's why I think those over her teachers need to know, too

posted by Ariala on November 16, 2005 at 4:08 PM | link to this | reply

MayB

I would advise my friend to put it behind her - after receiving an apology and recognition from the author.  I would also advise her not to write the story, but to concentrate on the fact that she is capable of creating exciting and saleable ideas, and not to tell anyone about the next one....oh....and stop attending the writing group.

 

 

posted by johnmacnab on November 16, 2005 at 4:06 PM | link to this | reply

That's just it. You can't copywrite ideas.  Before I could give careful measured advice, I'd first have to read my friend's story, and the inspired, prize-winning story.  Not being an award-winning author myself, I'm not sure in what circumstance I'd be able to "confess" that my story had been inspired by my student's written assignment.  If I were that author, and I felt so inspired by a student's piece of work, I would share my inspiration with that student first, and then work damned hard to make sure my story was not my student's story.  That I know for sure.  I also know that any writer worth his or her salt has the imagination to work around a sticky situation like that.  And I know that some big-time novelists refuse to read other people's manuscripts to avoid this very problem (and the resulting lawsuits).  If it had won an award and was published in a magazine, I like to think that, in my bio, I would underline the fact that the story was inspired, if it ran too close to being the student's story rather than my own.  It's difficult to make a sound judgment without seeing the two pieces, side-by-side.  But the bottom line is, you can't copywrite ideas.

posted by SilverMoon7 on November 16, 2005 at 4:03 PM | link to this | reply

Ariala, I think it borders on being unethical more than being discourteous. I mean it is something which happens between writers but it seems to me a serious breach of trust of the teacher-student relationship

posted by Azur on November 16, 2005 at 3:58 PM | link to this | reply

QuirkyAlone
It's very tricky legally because it was an idea and not plagiarism. It's a small community and clique too which could make it ugly. I think that the famous author should at the very least acknowledge publically where she got the idea but then that of course will open up a hornet's nest about mining student's ideas. I feel as if this could become a very big deal. She is seeking some professional advice.

posted by Azur on November 16, 2005 at 3:56 PM | link to this | reply

MayB, that teacher lacks professional courteousness, but legally, ideas
can't be copyrighted.  Still, your friend should definitely give this teacher, and those over her, a piece of her mind.

posted by Ariala on November 16, 2005 at 3:53 PM | link to this | reply

I'd sue the famous author, and notify the people who ran the contest that awarded her a prize. Actually, when I think about it, I feel the famous author was sadly lacking in morals, but can you copyright an idea?? I.E., did she do anything wrong legally?

posted by Julia. on November 16, 2005 at 3:48 PM | link to this | reply