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Oh hell, did I spark a debate
S---, I didn't mean to. Anyway, night guys. Calm down.
Glennb - see you round, I'm going to be away on training for a week or so.
posted by
fionajean
on November 19, 2005 at 2:38 AM
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OFFBEATS - there is no frustration any more, just humorous observation
Like how can a person get annoyed with Rainman? ....I've tried talking sense but all I get in return is half baked, mantra like gibberish......this is definately not my room.
posted by
gomedome
on November 17, 2005 at 8:25 PM
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Gome
I see you have gotten no further than yesterday....LOL.. sorry, but you can't talk to a liberal. Right now maybe we should let them rant another week or so, that's about how long this lastest campaign will last, they will implode...it's getting ready to come down. I was talking with some ladies today at the store, they told me if they have hear too much more they will surely go ballistic...and that's from people who are never polled!
posted by
Offy
on November 17, 2005 at 8:18 PM
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Glennb - Geez maybe you are right -- maybe I should get a "clue"
Not having a clue as yet, I wouldn't know where to get one. Like where do you go to pick one up "Clues R Us"?? ... The Clue Factory? .....oh I know ...I can just make shit up and not back down, no matter how stupid my contention is.....that must be how a person gets a "clue" .....does Donald Rumsfeld have a clue?
posted by
gomedome
on November 17, 2005 at 8:04 PM
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Gomedome,
Get a clue before you get nasty! Iraq was a viable and credible democracy! Ask Donald Rumsfeld! He tried to shake Saddam Hussein down back in the Reagan Era! It is insulting your ignorance of "real" fact!
posted by
Glennb
on November 17, 2005 at 1:29 PM
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Xeno-x - I have to agree - I think fionajean is referring to post WWII
Japan and Germany which emerged as dominant global economic powers from the post war rubble. Both are noticeably devoid of the burdeon of supporting enormous militaries, which played more than a small part in the allocation of rebuilding funds. Some refer to it as the "peace dividend", monies, resources and all social endeavours focusing on the rebuilding of a society without carrying the weight of defence spending. Unfortunately I do not see the same parameters that would propigate post war economic growth developing in Iraq. They have one main export business in oil, nothing that could be considered a manufacturing infrastructure, coupled with a centuries old history of internal religious and sectarian feuding. The same ingredients that have fueled post war economic booms in the past are just not present there. What is more likely to emerge post war, is a US protectorate, relying heavily on oil funded social programs to feed and rebuild the country, while never escaping the debilitating grip of it's internal religious struggles.
posted by
gomedome
on November 17, 2005 at 8:49 AM
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lets talk about war and economy
depends on whether you win or lose.
we have to go back in history to understand something here.
Hitler restarted Germany's economy through building up its war machine.
then, when the U.S. started manufacturing for the allies before Pearl Harbor, our econmy started recovering from the Great Depression.
Most every economist agrees that, although FDR's social programs helped to get the U.S. out of the morass of the Great Depression, it was the explosion of manufacturing for WWII that pulled us out completely and laid the groundwork for the 50's affluence.
Europe was devastated by the War -- when your cities are bombed to ruble, that is the result.
Right now, a major portion of the U.S. economy depends upon the military-industrial complex.
Although -- I have been intending to post on the subject of continued military spending bringing down economies through history.
Military preparations give a boost to the economy of the country and those with whom it deals.
the continual burden of supporting the military, however, drains the economy.
posted by
Xeno-x
on November 17, 2005 at 7:26 AM
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fionajean - you suggest I read my own comment then introduce a point that
is irrelevant? I took to task the suggestion by GlennB that Iraq was a stable and productive democracy prior to the US invasion. One more time; if Iraq was a democracy, I'm a Chippendale dancer. Stable? Would that be because all of the opposition to Hussein's iron fisted policies were rotuinely killed? (well yes it actually was the case) But only stable in that all domestic problems or internal divisive issues were quashed with force. The country was in effect bankrupt, national debt exceeding the rotting economic infrastructure's ability to pay it back. Your introduction of the widespread prosperity that some nations have experienced in a post war economy is not a point I would contend but again totally irrelevant.
posted by
gomedome
on November 17, 2005 at 6:43 AM
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Hi Gomedome
Sweetie, try reading your own comments more carefully, otherwise you just look silly:
"Iraq was a stable and productive democracy before the "Bush Clan" came up with this scheme, so why wouldn't it be equally productive and stable when America leaves!"
Even if the state Iraq's internal affairs is nobody's business but their own, this statement is hogwash.
Posted by gomedome on November 14, 2005 at 2:33 PM (permalink) "
Now, go get out a history book on the what happens to a country's economy after a war.
Glennb and I also don't always agree but if you're going to argue with him, make a lucid and logical argument. This goes double for arguing with me.
posted by
fionajean
on November 17, 2005 at 3:08 AM
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GOME
He does not know the art of debate, with him it is rage, I think he has not gotten in touch with his inner child rendering him welll, GlenB....He's a piece of work that one...I never can understand any thing he says. If you say something is black he will say it is white, for the sake of arguement, and he will also add a racial twist to it...O brother.........
posted by
Offy
on November 16, 2005 at 7:49 PM
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OFFBEATS -- I see what you are saying
...no matter what type of comment I leave here, the point is always completely missed.
posted by
gomedome
on November 16, 2005 at 7:42 PM
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GOME
((((YOUR BEATING YOUR HEAD AGAINST THE WALL, HE ONLY LISTENS TO HIMSELF)))
posted by
Offy
on November 16, 2005 at 7:38 PM
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Glennb -- here's the cold hard truth
You made a statement that is just plain bullshit and you are trying to backpeddle out of it.
posted by
gomedome
on November 16, 2005 at 7:35 PM
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GomeDome,
Again you miss the obvious! Saddam Hussein was a busy SOB by your misinformed logic! Developing WMD, killing all those People, invading and threatening all his neighbors, It is a wonder he had time to raise a family!
posted by
Glennb
on November 16, 2005 at 7:06 PM
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ROFL, sorry, Gome's last line cracked me up.
posted by
Ariala
on November 16, 2005 at 6:06 PM
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Glennb - gee, thanx for the help
Yes there were elections in Iraq during Hussein's term in power but calling it democracy is a joke. He killed all his political opposition while the remainder fled into exile. He also declared himself president for life. It was a dictatorship plain and simple. Those are the facts. Why can't you just admit your poor choice of words in this posting and move on? If you want to stick to laughable notion of Irag being a "stable and productive democracy" prior to the US invasion, I have some other sad news for you...Mary Poppins didn't really fly in the movie...they used wires.
posted by
gomedome
on November 16, 2005 at 6:04 PM
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Gomedome,
I really need to help you here! Iraq was a Republic with an elected leader! You may not have liked the way Leaders were elected but it does not alter the "real" fact!
posted by
Glennb
on November 16, 2005 at 5:53 PM
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Renegade3,
Thanks for the visit! Well Afghanistan is a seperate issue from Iraq! I still question the matter we went into that campaign to get a man that was already cornered! Did we really need the whole United States Defense Aparatus? Another debate for the future! Attacking Iraq was a criminal act! That is not in dispute!
posted by
Glennb
on November 16, 2005 at 5:51 PM
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fionajean - yeah and so what is your point?
Not one thing you said in your comment has anything to do with what I said. GlennB said in this post that Iraq was a stable and productive "democracy" prior to the US invasion...the key word being "democracy". If you want to start an argument... try sticking to the point.
posted by
gomedome
on November 16, 2005 at 2:05 PM
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Ya know...For once I'm gonna have to agree with you--at least in part. I NEVER had a problem with us going into Afghanistan since it was proven that they had (direct) ties to the terrorist attacks on Sept 11--and a previous one on a US Navy ship. However, when Colin Powell sat there in front of the UN showing us satellite pics of warehouses full of WMD's, I WANTED to believe him. I TRUSTED him, like alot of other fools. Now the infamous warehouses are either empty or gone, and we are in a war that even the Republicans are demanding an end to. We look like idiots, and I haven't heard a word about Afghanistan in months. Geez, are we even still there????
I'm not one to normally bash our government (in public), so this is about the closest I'll ever get to it... You outta see me after a couple of cocktails, though...lol
posted by
Renigade
on November 16, 2005 at 11:58 AM
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Fionajean,
Well stated and no need to apologize! Comments are always welcomed!
posted by
Glennb
on November 16, 2005 at 11:40 AM
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Hi Gomedome
Not to start a fight, but a war tends to destroy a country's economy totally. (That's why Germany and Japan received foreign aid after the second world war to rebuild their economies.) To say that if a country's was economy was fine before a war, it should be fine afterwards is totally naive. Remember that Iraq has not only been destabilized by the American/English incursion but subsequent terror attacks by milita as well. A great deal of their economically active population has been decimated. You should be looking to help the Iraqi's rebuild.
Hi Glennb - Just me totally taking over again. See ya.
posted by
fionajean
on November 16, 2005 at 6:32 AM
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Gomedome,
I am determined not to debate a person when he is totally ignorant of the "real" facts! It is public record that Iraq was a member Nation in good standing in the world community! So I do not have to go any further! Just ask Donald Rumsfeld!
posted by
Glennb
on November 15, 2005 at 11:46 AM
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Glennb - saying that Iraq was a productive democracy prior to the US
invasion has nothing to do with opening one's eyes and a lot more to do with spreading self serving bullshit. The last "vote" to elect Saddam Hussein as president had him winning 100% of the popular vote. That doesn't happen in a true democracy. Further, the country's entire infrastructure was in complete decay, including it's bread and butter in the oil industry, solely from being raped by it's dictator. This doesn't even address it's foreign debt to France and Russia as well as other countries. None of this justifies an invasion of a sovereign nation, that was justified, however tenuous, by other criteria but it can hardly be called a "productive democracy". Before you suggest that someone needs to open their eyes, maybe you should do enough research to have just a minor clue as to what you are saying.
posted by
gomedome
on November 15, 2005 at 9:54 AM
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OFFBEATS,
You or if you do not know, there is nothing I would write to purposely inflict harm to you! I hope you will accept that I am only trying to pass on "real" facts!
posted by
Glennb
on November 14, 2005 at 6:01 PM
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Gomedome,
That ia a fact!! It is a matter of public record! There are certain things that opening your eyes will reveal!
posted by
Glennb
on November 14, 2005 at 5:59 PM
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Glen
I worry about you..do you really believe this crap or do you write just to know it sends my blood pressure balistic?
posted by
Offy
on November 14, 2005 at 2:46 PM
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Glennb -- WTF? ----- you can't be serious about this statement
"Iraq was a stable and productive democracy before the "Bush Clan" came up with this scheme, so why wouldn't it be equally productive and stable when America leaves!"
Even if the state Iraq's internal affairs is nobody's business but their own, this statement is hogwash.
posted by
gomedome
on November 14, 2005 at 2:33 PM
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Kingmi,
I have to differ with your assessment of criticizm! It is within the human spirit to reject evil no matter it's source! By being opposed to any act that infringes upon the pursuit of liberty and justice for all is an obligation that will perpetuate civilization!
posted by
Glennb
on November 14, 2005 at 11:50 AM
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Glenn, Thanks for writing today. Say, you know, the risk we ru all of us,
is projecting the true nature of our hearts, when we criticise others. I always try to keep this in mind when I make judgments on my superiors.
posted by
kingmi
on November 13, 2005 at 5:45 PM
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