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Xeno-x --- if there was one thing that put the icing on the cake for me in
determining that a God of traditional definition could not possibly exist, it was a paper I submitted in college outlining the origins and simularities of the world's religious beliefs. While studying the ancient myths, following their development, adoption as scripture and agenda laden elaboration through history, I completely lost faith in the human animal's ability to discern reality from wishful thinking. We have people today calling a manuscript that was completely edited and poorly translated by an English King from un-original works, the word of God. Yet against all reason these people persist.
posted by
gomedome
on November 10, 2005 at 8:03 AM
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always it seems
as people get farther away from an event
the more askew it becomes
you look at the references to Satan (adversary) and you don't at all get out of this what medieval Christianity has made it out to be. If only contemporary Christians would realize how much they areinfluenced by the Medieval Church, then maybe they would be better able to separate myth from validity.
posted by
Xeno-x
on November 10, 2005 at 7:11 AM
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The cathars saw God as the evil one, for he had trapped mans spiritual being in an earthly prison. Lucifer bringer of light. It is one small step from one to the other. They burnt the cathars. No doubt, given half a chance the cathars would have burnt them. I forget precise dates but in the 3rd or 4th century a conclave of bishops and patriarchs was held, I believe, in Alexandria, they decided what gospels would be included in the official bible, they put all the dull bits in and left the interesting ones out. C'est la vie. No wonder it's such a dull read, not one good laugh from Genesis onwards, not even a chuckle.
posted by
longjohnjohn
on November 10, 2005 at 4:33 AM
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Gome, I sort of disagree. I do see your point (now that you've nicely knocked me over the head with it) but at the same time, I do have a lot of respect for people EVEN if they are of a different religious persuasion. I work with two wonderful Hindus. I'd love it if they're Christians, but I don't plan on attempting to convert them (Woo hoo! Surprised?); rather, I just simply enjoy working with them. It does help that they are incredibly sweet and kind.
Obviously, though, I'm personalizing this, but realize you're speaking more from general perceptions. I guess, what I'm trying to say is that I don't look at non-Christians and their productivity and good works as you seem to think Christians look at them. I've seen a lot of good works done in the name of, well, not Jesus but shall we say humanity? And been thankful for the betterment of society as a result.
As I sit here at my computer I'm trying to think of humanitarian deeds done by people of a different religion. Ghandi certainly. Cannot think of any really wonderful deeds done by communists but perhaps you can? Muslims? Certainly there are some but the violent deeds seem to be what we hear of most. Jews? For their own people, certainly, and they were one of the first to offer help to the US after Katrina. I'm sure there are many, many good deeds done by a slew of non christians but sheesh I need to go to bed and cannot think of them off hand. So perhaps I'm validating your point?
Sorry for the ramble.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 9, 2005 at 8:55 PM
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JanesOpinion - no one could disagree with what you describe as being a
productive life and I agree that putting these things into practice derive their own rewards. That however slightly misses the point mentioned here and in previous post or comments. As a Christian yourself, you are rightfully commended within your religious community and social group for your activities. I on the other hand could be a veritable Mahatma Ghandi of communal contribution and charitable work but still not be accorded the same respect. Simply because of a widely held misconception amongst believers that those who do not hold a belief in a supreme being, cannot possibly be contributors to society on the same level. How would you like to put in the effort you have these past few days, know in your heart that you are doing the best you possibly can, while trying to make a difference and then have someone dismiss you as a criminal and treat you with utter disdain only because they hold different religious beliefs? I can bet that you would be upset or even become pro-active in setting the record straight.
But you don't have to endure any of this because you are a member of a majority religion.
posted by
gomedome
on November 9, 2005 at 7:50 PM
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mikebrown - I always get a kick out of how some people cannot see this
What is the difference between the strange rituals as performed in a small cult and say a priest muttering incantations over a tub of water to turn it to "holy water", then having church members come and dip their fingers in it to make a sign of the cross? (touching forehead, then chest then each shoulder) The only difference is that one ritual is more broadly practiced than the other, therefore more broadly accepted.
posted by
gomedome
on November 9, 2005 at 7:35 PM
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Geez, guys, you big meanies!
while you've been thumping on Christians, believe it or not, this Christian has been busy leading a productive life. Isn't that what you said we don't seem to know how to do???
Let's see, I worked 11 hours on Monday, 11 and 1/4 on Tuesday, 10 hours today (that included a 300 mile commute to/from some meetings). Tomorrow I'm off, but then on Friday I'll be working again and my average on Fridays is about 11.5 hours. . . .
So in general, while you've been busy being just a tiny bit contemptuous, I've been busy seeing patients, writing orders, teaching nurses, giving old folks and nursing assistants alike generous portions of TLC. (Forgive the 30 seconds of horn tooting but I wanted to share with you specific examples of productivity.)
In my opinion, heaven begins here on earth seeing an elderly person's face light up with a smile after being the recipient of a hug . . . and that same heaven will continue for eternity. 
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 9, 2005 at 6:49 PM
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i think
i may start giving devout believers in christianity the same feelings as people in deviant cults: sympathetic contempt. let 'em do what they want, i guess.
most believers won't believe this, but there is very little difference between today's deviant cults and major religions. charismatic leaders, irrational beliefs, rejection of logic, strong comraderie among fellow members, anger toward other religions, and of course, a blind leap of faith. Many parallels.
posted by
mikebrown
on November 9, 2005 at 6:17 PM
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Xeno-x - I wonder if there will be a line for those who were imposters as
gatekeepers for the pearly gates? ... like if I had a dollar for every time some bible thumper told me in no uncertain terms that I was going to hell....
posted by
gomedome
on November 9, 2005 at 12:15 PM
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sannhet -- when one takes a quick look around the globe to see so
many different religious perspectives and such a wide array of beliefs, what other means could there possibly be to measure an individual during the mythical final judgment than how that individual conducted their lives? It is the only common denominator between all humans. It is either that or only a select few have it right while the majority have it wrong. I refuse to buy this last notion.
You'd probably be in line just ahead of us.
posted by
gomedome
on November 9, 2005 at 12:13 PM
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Gome -
Is there line for those of us who believe in a higher power, but don't spend every waking moment worshipping said entity, because we are busy leading productive, loving lives?
posted by
sannhet
on November 9, 2005 at 11:54 AM
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sheesh
yeah i think the old guy would reward you for giving him so many souls which i am sure you have
i mean -- it's only fair.
but speaking of lines
like crossing state lions for immoral porpoises
but that's a horse of a different color
everybody thinks they know what's going to happen
come the judgement day.
I've got a good quote
"There won't any trumpets blowin' come the judgement day
On the bloody morning after, one tin soldier rides away."
wouldn't these guys
be fairly surprised
to look up and see
the likes of you and me
where they think they ought to be.
posted by
Xeno-x
on November 9, 2005 at 11:37 AM
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Gome
Still the story of my life, only back in the 1930s and 40s.
Mine was " If a Caremlite nun is now Discalced, when was she calced?"
I mean, in my boyish mind it stood to reason, OOWWW!
posted by
ariel70
on November 9, 2005 at 10:16 AM
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ariel70 - my two semi fictional nun characters are Sister Neverhadaman
and her budding protege Sister Noguyforme. Both based on very real and very sick people. If you can imagine I was the recipient of good old fashioned nun style corporal punishment more than a few times. Sometimes I must admit, well deserved but most times for asking uncomfortable questions. You know the type of questions .....how did Noah catch two fleas for the ark? etc.
posted by
gomedome
on November 9, 2005 at 10:04 AM
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Gome
The story of my life! Mother Campion, and Mother Aquinas, our teachers were very much into the old round ebony ruler treatment.
Whish is why I invented a character called Sister Schwarzeneggar, who appears in some of my work.
Nice to meet a fellow ruler recipient. maybe we ought to get together and comapre stories .... and scars!!
posted by
ariel70
on November 9, 2005 at 9:56 AM
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jollyjeff - when we were kids and the nuns were spinning their yarns about
Satan and his bag of evil tricks the television show "Bewitched" was very popular. One of the kids in our class asked the same question you pose "why doesn't God just twitch his nose like that lady on Bewitched and get rid of him?" ...of course this was met with a beating by the nun's favourite weapon...a wooden ruler.
posted by
gomedome
on November 9, 2005 at 9:46 AM
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I've always wondered
if Satan does exist, why doesn't God just get rid of him?
posted by
jollyjeff
on November 9, 2005 at 9:31 AM
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Gome, you think of everything...
posted by
Ariala
on November 9, 2005 at 8:50 AM
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Ariala - delivery-- no problem - they fit nicely into pizza boxes once
we're through with them.
posted by
gomedome
on November 9, 2005 at 8:48 AM
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kooka_lives --- maybe a general work stoppage is in order
I think pushing for retro-active pay is fair game as well. I don't know about you but I never received my "wages of sin" check in the mail.
posted by
gomedome
on November 9, 2005 at 8:48 AM
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I just want to know if there are any puppies left? I'm feeling rather
unfulfilled right now, too...and a puppy might do the trick. Do you deliver?
posted by
Ariala
on November 9, 2005 at 8:41 AM
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gomedome
I can't believe our master keeps having us write all these posts that say he is a fictional character. I'll have to have a talk with him next time he is over and see if I can't start being open about my service to him. I am thinking we all need to get together and start pushing him for better benefits though. If we are going to be trapped in a lake of lava for all eternity with him, I want some big tubs of skin cream ready for our use. Should be one hell of a great hot tubbing party though.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 9, 2005 at 8:35 AM
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Talion- I still maintain that you, myself, Kooka and Ariel70 will be handed
the equivalent of backstage passes on judgement day. There will be 2 lines of those waiting to be judged. The God Fan Club line of people that think worshipping God was more important than anything else, which will stretch for miles....and then the express checkout of those who felt it more important to live good productive lives while putting the often lost ideals of religion into practice. Even though we will be entering heaven before any of them, it is still allowed to place our thumbs on our noses and wiggle our fingers at them..even throw in a few nyah nah na nah nah,s ...if we have a mind to.
posted by
gomedome
on November 9, 2005 at 8:28 AM
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gomedome
Here's the thing. Not only are you a damn fool for risking your soul, but you're too stupid to even realize who's really pulling your strings. How's that for the hidden meaning? Face it, man. You, me, and everyone like us are screwed eternally. Yeah, right.
posted by
Talion
on November 9, 2005 at 8:18 AM
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