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my son aint so, janesopinion
i know him
he expressions quite a range of opinions
he
"hates the sin but loves the sinner"
it's attitudes and perceptions that he has problems with
i'm not really speaking for him
but i know him enough that i know
he really isn't biased.
and i understand that you aren't really biased either, since at my church where there is this tension between gays and fundamentalists, the fundamentalists don't hate the gay members -- but they do believe that that gay lifestyle is antiscriptural.
the individuals, however, are accepted into the parish community and considered to be equals.
the fundamentalists do not, however, remove themselves from the gays; but they engage in dialogue, from the weather to the issues dividing them.
I have expressed my views on homosexuality in my blogs, so i won't go over it here.
it is a subject that can divide.
posted by
Xeno-x
on November 11, 2005 at 7:50 AM
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Then Kooka all I can say in response is that I'm glad your wife has you, and that you've been able to help her so much. In all honesty, it sounds like you've been a blessing to her.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 10, 2005 at 5:57 PM
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Janes
I can swear I have said it before and I know I said it right here, but we are shaped by the events of our lives. Yes, we will both know different people and those people will give us difference impressions about things. there is nothing at al that can change that.
I have know many, many promiscuous people. None of them for whatever reason have had STDs. Most of it was being responsible and some of it was luck I am sure. But what I have seen if people are responsible and take precautions they are not going to have problems in being sexual active.
Although I would also like to add that the people I have met who are the most in denial about reality and are less likely to admit what they have experienced, instead claiming all is good have been Conservative Fundamentalist. I have even known a few who have had break downs because of reality catching up their beliefs. Stuff like rape and such are denied as having happened to them and they live lies. I honestly know of no atheist or liberal who lives their life as a lie. But once more that is my experiences. I have known many, many more fundamentalist conservative than atheist liberals, so logic would have that I have a better clue about how the other side is than my own side in such a case. My wife grew up in such a family and I am still working on getting her self esteem built up and deal with many other issues that were caused by all the conservative ideas she was raised with. Truthfully if I had not come along, she most likely would have ended up loveless marriage being abused on all levels. She really had little understanding about the world when I met her. She had already been used by men because she had been taught so many wrong things about sex. I won't go into details because some of the stuff I do not like to think about. But her family had no right at all to do what they did in their conservative thinking that caused her to have such low self esteem and end up doing some of the stuff she did. I could even go back a generation to her mother and aunts and the same kind of things happened then through conservative fundamentalist teachings. And although we do try to active with her family, there are still issues there that will never heal.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 10, 2005 at 3:11 PM
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I see. Typicall impasse here, Kooka. It's impossible to carry on any reasonable debate with you.
It so happens that many of my best experiences have been with "conservative evangelical fundamentalists" or some variation on that theme and the vast majority have been positive, healthy, happy and wholesome experiences. While on the flip side I've seen far more people with permiscuous leanings or liberal values who end up with multiple problems, discontented and yes, STDs. (Perhaps Michigan has more STDs than Colorado. Yes, that must be it.) So it's obvious that you and I run in completely different circles and cannot compare apples with oranges.
So all I can do is wish you the best as you circulate throughout your pretty perfect little world, where examples abound about all of your exceedingly happy circle of liberal, progressive and perfect friends.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 10, 2005 at 1:37 PM
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Janes
Don't try to debate moral values with me. I promise you I am as moral, if not more moral than you. And also, I do not see things as black and white and all, btu under that most of the world is in the gray. However, it is clear beyond belief that those who oppose allowing groups to grow and improve hate those groups, no matter what BS they may claim. It is all about understanding the nature of hate instead of denying the truth about it.
I read you comments about Condoms, but that had little if anything to do with the real issues. The truth is condoms are still the best form of birth control and prevention of STDs for the sexually active out there when used correctly.
We all go from our own experiences in life. If your nephews are well adjusted, then great. The most poorly adjusted people I have know have been those raised through conservative fundamentalist thinking. I can get them to even admit to it, because they know how screwed up the parenting they received was. The mentally healthiest people I know were raised with much more liberal thinking and teaching. At no point have I said people need to sleep around having causal sex or any such nonsense, which you keep trying to imply. That is not being responsible. I personally am glad my wife and I were sexual active before we got married. I really think things would have gone badly if we had gotten married and I then had to learn about all her her ignorance about sex and her own body.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 10, 2005 at 10:08 AM
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So I see that a person with strong moral values is one who hates homosexuals? Sheesh, Kooka you're so danged black and white and concrete commenting on a society that's anything but.
You obviously did NOT read what I wrote about condoms. The fact is that viruses will slip through the pores in condoms. Sure they're better than nothing but certainly not the full answer.
I don't have kids but my sister (also one of those dreadful conservatives of whom you speak) has six. Her oldest two are 15 and 14 with normal hormones. They've both received THE CONVERSATION(s) about sex and are kept busy leading very productive lives with school (including such subjects as Latin, Trigonometry and advanced math, chemistry, etc), music (piano, violin, sax) and lots of exercise. They spend time with other church kids but their parents closely monitor their curfews and such. So what are they learning? Discipline, character building and patience. And they are two of the nicest, happiest, well adjusted kids I have met. Compared with the (very) sexually active girls I work with at the county health department, who've had multiple boyfriends, I'd say my sister's two teens are the most well adjusted and content young people I've seen. Biased? Sure. But you'd have to meet these two teens to know what I'm talking about.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 10, 2005 at 9:48 AM
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Janes
If you did not hate homosexuals, then you would be willing to give them a chance to prove if they can work in real relationships or not. You do not want to give them the chance at all, but instead wish to keep the attitudes alive which has caused them to become the kind of group you can hate. You hide this well, as shown with how you claim to act towards those you know to be gay. But the truth is right there in how you see them as a group and refuse to allow for them to have the chance to show you that you are wrong. It is a disturbing trend that is very active in many groups of believers that are out there. You just do not at all understand just how hate works.
Just saying it should be up to the parents to teach kids about sex is not a real solution. It is the parents themselves who are causing the problems by teaching them denial and pretending sex does not happen.
The reality is that people are going to have multiple relationships in their lives. You can not stop that. At some level it is healthy to have more than one relationship in order to learn how to deal with people and one just has to figure in this day and age that those relationships will have a chance of sexual activity. I can not even find where I used the word 'relationships' in the post at all. Most likely if I did I was talking about teenagers as whole, you know that big group of more than just tow and so if I used the term relationships there it was talking about a large group anyway.
Also, I have seen no signs at all that more teenagers are waiting. I do see signs that condoms and such are being used more and responsibility being a big part of it all. We are being more open about the ideas of birth control and such and so those are being used more.
I am not hateful at all. I do not wish to try to keep groups from being able to show their growth and that they can become better. I am all for giving chance to all to show they can improve. When I use terms like 'ignorance' it is because I see true ignorance. I am not doing it to me mean or hateful, but to be honest. I keep hoping that people will see their ignorance and open their minds and start to allow personal growth to take place by seeing the big picture. It doesn't happen, but I can still hope for it.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 10, 2005 at 9:00 AM
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Xenox, excellent comments, thank you.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 10, 2005 at 8:14 AM
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Did I say multiple relationships at once? No, I did not. You mentioned in your blog "relationships" which is the plural form of relationship. So you insinuated, therefore, in your own blog multiple partners. (Please check your grammar, Kooka, before throwing stones.)
Regarding homosexuals, one of my favorite nurses at work is a lesbian who has mentioned several times that she has a lot of respect and affection for me. My former boss is blatantly gay who told me he would hire me back in a heart beat; he did not want me to leave. Golly, I must REALLY HATE homosexuals, eh? Oh and by the way, you're NOT judgmental???????
And regarding teens, one reason why STDs are "melting away" (I think your term, which is not necessarily true) is because teens are being encouraged TO WAIT! There are programs out there that encourage teens to wait at least until they're older but preferably until married.
As I mentioned in my previous comment, which you chose to ignore, the best place for teens to hear sex ed is from their parents. The preferred method is for them to get all the details at home from their parents or a close friend. I, too, was told about the birds and the bees from my own wonderful mother in several heart to heart talks and with positive outcomes. So my SOLUTION is for parents to discuss with their kids. In the absence of this, then the school has to step in, although that's not always the best solution.
And you say you're not hateful Kooka? Just read over your comment and compare it with your pop's comments and those of my own and tell me who has the most RANCOR in his or her comments.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 10, 2005 at 8:14 AM
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teen sex
unrestricted teen sex will result in what janeopinion haqs described
teens become sexually active for all sorts of reasons.
peer pressure has something to do with it
some become active way before they really desire it.
peer pressure is greatest when the teen feels alienated from the parents.
certain archaic parental attitudes has a lot to do with that
also parents who don't pay attention at all to their children -- usually suburbanites who've gotten in debt over a new house and several new cars and have to work several jobs to pay for all these material goods.
industrial/corporate society (which, by the way is profusely supported by the Republican Party) is mainly responsible for this turn of events.
because of these things we have two separate societies: parental and teen, within the same household, and neither really knows, cares or has anything much to do with the other.
teach parents
1. not to covet so much in the way of material goods (in spite of all that advertising that encourages it.
2. to value the family (the real intent of the 5th commandment "honor thy father and thy mother").
3. to discover the more valid points about sex and be more open and expose thier children freely to certain healthy sexual situations
among others
and you wouldn't have the problems you have now.
by the way, from what I've seen, this was the problem with the Columbine shootings -- it looked lke a lot of teen isolation from their parents. much lack of communication -- and this applies to all the students involved.
posted by
Xeno-x
on November 10, 2005 at 7:50 AM
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i don't see you online where are you?
posted by
Xeno-x
on November 10, 2005 at 7:23 AM
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Janes
As always your ignorance shows through greatly.
Any homosexual statistic are meaningless until they are given time to function regularly in committed relationships. You and so many other who truly hate (Don't try to tell me otherwise, because I already have seen how much you hate them) the idea of homosexual being treated like well humans, do not wish to give homosexuals that chance to show they can have lasting committed monogamous relationships. It will take time, several decades most likely, for this to work. But basically we as a society need to tart saying we are accepting of that and do all we can to promote it. Come back to me a few decades after homosexual commit relationships become a common enough thing for any statistics to be able to be considered fair.
When did I say anything at all about encouraging teens to have multiple partners? I did not such thing. But once more as was the main idea of this post, please show me a better alternative that what I presented. You did not. You just showed the problems that were there with not logical or rational ways to deal with. You seem to rather make sure teens are less prepared for reality.
If you think discouraging teens from sex is going to make them stop, then you really are just clueless. In fact it is the discouraging that seems to make them want to go out and do it all the more. Most of the girls I know of who slept around were raised in the families that did not talk of sex and discouraged any and all sexual knowledge. While the families that openly talked about sex and made it clear it was up to the kids do be responsible if they chose to engage in it, none of them got STDs or got knocked up.
It is not about encouraging or discouraging, but about teaching. When you work with them and make sure they are responsible for their action they are going to be more likely to do the right thing and take care of themselves. When you say they are not allowed and discourage the ideas, then they are going to more likely to be the rebellious teens and go out and show their parents they are 'grown up' and start doing 'grown up' things. The trick is to treat them as if they are smart enough to be bale to make the choice for themselves and be responsible about it. Discouraging sex is not doing that.
No, as always you being of a conservative mind are more than willing to point out all of what you believe to be the ills of our society, but you have no real solutions to it all. You really would much rather focus on denial and pretending things do not happen.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 10, 2005 at 7:22 AM
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And on the flip side. . .
I will continue to do what I can to counter the seeming insanity of liberals' beliefs and illogic thinking.
Is sex bad? No way! It's wonderful!!! But it is best in a committed relationship and most homosexual relationships are NOT that (no matter how many friends you have who seem committed; according to MULTIPLE STUDIES the majority are NOT COMMITTED).
Regarding teen sex, I agree with you that it's the parents who should be teaching their kids. I don't think sex ed should be left to the schools; however, since too many parents aren't doing their job, then the school steps in. Sadly, though, sex ed teachers in general are of the opinion that sex is fine for even young teens. So when they should be learning discipline in controlling their hormonal rages, they're instead encouraged to be out there screwing their 13 year old friends. Kooka, have you ever watched a 13 year old give birth to a baby? And seen the immaturity of her 13 year old boyfriend? This one that I saw was certainly not ready to be a mother. I commend her for choosing to give birth rather than abort . . . but I believe she also decided to raise this child rather than adopt. Where I'm going with this is that these teens are not mature enough to make rational decisions, which is one reason why I think they should be encouraged to wait until, oh, say 30? (Just kidding). But really, I think that waiting awhile -- preferably until marriage -- will build discipline and character and will certainly protect them from a myriad of STDs.
Speaking of those, did you know that condoms DON'T protect from the most common of STDs -- condylomata (human papilloma virus)? Why? The pores in the condom are larger than the virus. And did you know that this HPV is the cause of about 98% of all cervical cancers in women? And once you have condylomata (HPV), you never get rid of it, since it's a virus and can hide dormant for years?
So basically, by encouraging teens to have sex and discover their bodies at a very young age and experiment with multiple relationships, you are encouraging them to develop an STD (the most common STD) that may be with them for life and which can too easily turn into cancer? (By the way, it's not a pretty sight watching young women die of cancer.)
And did you know that Chlamydia and Gonorrhea (both rather common STDs) often lead to pelvic inflammatory disease, which rather too often leads to infertility? Not to mention the fact that it can be extremely painful? Or that the symptoms from G and C are sometimes not obvious until passed from partner to partner to partner? And did you know that these bacteria are becoming resistant to many of the common antibiotics used to treat it?
And while I'm at it, did you know that teens in particular, but also those in their early 20s are at even greater risk of getting an STD than slightly older women? Why? Because an area in the cervix, called the "transformation zone" is larger in teens, has a richer blood supply, and will better absorb -- through multiple micro tears that occur during sex -- viruses and bacteria leading to STDs.
I could go on. And of course, by commenting here, it's my assumption that you will say in your next blog that I hate sex. Nope! Not true! Happen to love it! But I'm certainly NOT going to be encouraging teens to go have it in order to learn how to survive in a relationship.
And by the way, Kooka, I'm not a doctor but I am a nurse practitioner, and besides working with old folks, I also work with women at a county women's health clinic. So trust me on this; I do know what I'm talking about. OK? I'm not into fear tactics here; rather, I've looked at too dang many bugs under a microscope and talked with too many really young women who've suffered far too much because of their parents' permissive ways. They've learned the hard way that it's OK to wait a few years for sex.
I'm honestly NOT trying to constantly be at logger heads with you, but on this subject, I agree with conservatives that it makes sense to be, well, a little more conservative on these subjects pertaining to sex.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 9, 2005 at 8:24 PM
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fwmystic
Thank you.
I very much agree. Conservatives are not at all aware of reality. It is what scares me the most, since they right now are running this country.
I will keep the fight to get logic and some form of sense spread to others.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 9, 2005 at 8:14 AM
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Kooka - I've been wanting to say this for a while ...
I admire your resolve in attempting to refute the conservative idiots on Blogit. How you can do it day after day never ceases to amaze me, and I just want to personally thank you for putting up the good fight.
I tried, but I just can't argue with them logically because logic doesn't faze them. Everytime I try to reason with facts, they just shrug it off as if reality doesn't matter to them. Some of their writings and positions are so off the wall insane that I fear for the future of our country.
posted by
fwmystic
on November 8, 2005 at 8:18 PM
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