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Also Janes
How is it trying to be nice to say "Ironically, when I read your blogs (in general, not just this one), I see someone with a monumental ego the size of the twin towers." To me?
Nothing about that line is nice. You are straight out trying to insult me for the purpose of discrediting me. That is not nice, so I am puzzled as to how you think you were trying to be nice there.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 6, 2005 at 4:59 PM
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Janes
I keep asking you to show me where these ideas of yours comes from.
Where do I have blanket statements?
Where am I passing judgment?
If you are seeing things that are not there, then that is being delusional. Show me some examples of those things if you believe you are right. Prove to me you are not delusional.
And stop changing the subject. Address the issues I present instead of trying to discredit me.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 6, 2005 at 4:57 PM
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Alrighty then, so much for attempting to be nice. I see I'm now delusional on top of everything else.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 6, 2005 at 1:58 PM
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Janes
What blanket statements do I make?
You are delusional, since no such statements are out there. I am to the point and honest, and I think that is what bothers you the most. I can not help it if I speak the truth a lot and that such a truth is often hard for you to deal with.
I try not to base many of my posts on my views as much as what seems to make sense.
You would be surprised at how many times I start writing a post and while writing it figure out what I am actually saying and suddenly I am teaching myself as I go. I very rarely start off saying 'I am going to prove this point' when I write a post. Much of what you read is actually me figuring it out as I write and putting two and two together. I do not start off with the answers, just the questions and try to put it all together as I go.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 6, 2005 at 12:52 PM
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Interesting comments, Kooka. It would seem that we speak two different languages or at least two different dialogues within the same language. Ironically, when I read your blogs (in general, not just this one), I see someone with a monumental ego the size of the twin towers. Obviously you don't see that. 
Gome can come out blatantly and specifically trashing Christians (more so than you!), but his "tone of voice" is such that I am less likely to take offense. You, on the other hand, make these blanket, know it all statements that really grate on my nerves. So yes, I would venture to guess that it's all about perceptions and perhaps I need to get beyond your egotistical stance (as I perceive it).
Regarding being a poor ambassador for my beliefs, you also make a valid point. I am not always the best ambassador here on Blogit -- firey temper and all. So I shall have to stick with my day job and work at it there and perhaps some of the TLC I portray on a regular basis at work will rub off in my writing.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 6, 2005 at 11:34 AM
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Janes
How am I passing judgment here?
You are the one who came into this leaving a comment claiming I am going after Christians when the post it self was very much trying to talk about beliefs in general. You are the one who keeps claiming I am going after Christians due to some personal agenda just because what I say here does not agree with your point of view.
If you do not wish to play the victim, then stop playing the victim. I am not attacking Christians. You are not being attacked by me at all here. No Christian is. So how is you keep claiming that I am doing such unless you are trying to play the victim? Look at this post and tell me where I attack Christians? I use them as an example at one point, making it clear that not all Christians are like that. Such is not an attack on the faith.
I attack the Christians faith as much as (Well actually less to be honest, since I do not make any blanket statements claiming all Christians are one way) the Christians attack my faith. The only attack I make is be stating my beliefs openly and it just happens that my beliefs disagree with the Christians beliefs. That is as far as ti goes. The Christians here who state their beliefs are attacking my beliefs very much in that same sense, yet I do not go to every post (Or any post at all for that matter) by a Christians and say they are attacking atheism because they share a different beliefs than I do. WHy? BEcause it is not really na attack, just as what I write here is not really na attack.
So if you are not trying to play the victim, then stop trying to play the victim. I am not attacking you or your belief. This post was not anything close to attacking anyone's beliefs. Yet here you are trying to make it look like I was doing something I was not.
Reread the post and actually think about what I am saying here. Take a look at yourself and how you responded to the post and see if the ideas of this post apply to how you presented yourself here.
The other possibility is that this ai personal agenda for you to prove that I am a hypocrite in my views in order to discredit me and make me look bad. Yet as I very openly admitted here in the comments sections, I do not put myself as being above the ideas of this post. I very much make sure that I live up to being a good ambassador of my beliefs. As I recall of this did start because of a post you wrote some time ago claiming that all atheists were immoral or some such nonsense. You very clearly said that ALL atheists are like that and when I tried to point out that one should never make any such blanket statements since they are not really true to start with and very much do not fit for all atheists, you took offense and have been trying to prove me to be a hypocrite every sense.
So is this just a personal grudge against me to try and bring me down so you can feel superior over me?
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 6, 2005 at 10:30 AM
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Ah, so now you're passing judgment. Heaven forbid if a Christian were to do that, but it's A-OK for you. Whatever trips your trigger, Kooka.
And playing the victim? Nope. I'm not into that. There are enough Christians out there in China, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, etc, who are true victims of crime and persecution against them. They know what it's like to be a victim against hatred and violence and bigotry.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 6, 2005 at 9:23 AM
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Janes
I know that is what you wish to believe so that you can play the victim and try to make those who do not agree with your belief look bad, but it is far form what I am trying to do.
I am not calling name, pointing fingers or being negative. I can not help it is your faith in your beliefs is not strong enough to be able to take some honest criticism. I speak honestly and ask question about what I see in the ideas of faith.
If you really wish I could go back to being harsh and straight out attacking as I was at one. That was when I started here and I have grown away from the need t do that. This post however was clearly not attacking and was about all faith in general. My guess is due to the fact that you are clearly a poor ambassador for your beliefs and you must know this, after all here on Blogit you have shown the idea that Christians must always play the victim and are always right and no one should ever have the right to challenge aspects of their faith, or you get to tell them off and should not be held to anything close to equal standards.
You did show me a great lack of respect right away here, and I still do all I can to show you and your beliefs more respect than you show me and my beliefs.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 6, 2005 at 8:17 AM
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Kooka, you don't get it do you? It is not my intention to point fingers and put you down, but the image YOU project over and over and over and over . . . is one of constant belittling and trashing of those who profess faith in Christ. Hence, the hypocrisy. Have you looked over your posts? They are incessantly negative towards Christians. And yet you say you're not calling names and pointing the finger and being negative?
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 5, 2005 at 7:28 PM
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ariel70
Thank You
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 5, 2005 at 1:43 PM
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gomedome
It is the general lack of respect I see coming from believers towards those who do not share their beliefs which is one aspect that many are unable to see clearly. Janes here just helped to show tat. In a post that was very much not attacking or trying to say one group is better than another, she took it as an attack and decided I was going after her beliefs. At no point in the post did I claim that Atheists should not follow this advice. While I used believers as my examples, at no point did I say atheism was better or more correct in this manner.
At times like that I need say very little because it is those like Janes who help to make my point for me. When I try to show respect for all and show the flaws that make people lack respect for belief systems, someone seems to want to come along and try to say I am 'the pot calling the kettle black.'
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 5, 2005 at 1:43 PM
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Janes
I am not calling anyone anything here. I am making a very valid point that you seem to wish to ignore.
As I recall our problems started out with you calling me names and trying to discredit me, while I kept trying to be respectful to you, but that was not good enough because my beliefs did not agree with yours. And still time and time again I attempt to show respect towards you and end up being insulted because of the beliefs I express.
I will have to say you are one person who needs to read this post and understand what it says and take a look at how you are expressing your beliefs, and what that makes you look like as an ambassador of those beliefs. Your comment here speaks volumes. It say a lot. You need to point the finger and try to make myself look bad above seeing the truth about what is being said. You need to feel that this post was attacking instead of just taking a good look at things. You getting defensive, when unless you know personally that you are guilty of what I talked about, should not have happened.
A reply like yours only helps to show how people are not following the logic I presented in the post and are not being good ambassadors of their faith.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 5, 2005 at 1:33 PM
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Kooka
Amen to that, from an atheist
posted by
ariel70
on November 5, 2005 at 1:31 PM
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Ariala
I agree. What I said here very much applies to atheist, since it is a set of beliefs. After all non-belief in something is a belief. I pride myself on the fact that I stick to the values of tolerance and integrity. I do feel I am a very positive ambassador for atheists. At no point did I try to disclude atheists in this post.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 5, 2005 at 1:26 PM
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kooka_lives - right on - too many people feel that by simply flipping open
a bible that they have magically elevated themselves morally above all others. The attrocious behaviour that you describe is all too common. Demonstrating moral superiority by manufacturing outrageous lies? We all know that talking about being a better person is a lot easier than actually being a better person.
posted by
gomedome
on November 5, 2005 at 11:35 AM
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Kooka, me thinks this post is all about the pot calling the kettle black. Careful with the hypocrisy, my dear.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 5, 2005 at 7:34 AM
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Good post...the same is true for those of none faith...you see, all those
attributes you named discredits a person in my eyes, whether believer or nonbeliever.
Thanks, bro! 
posted by
Ariala
on November 5, 2005 at 7:10 AM
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