Go to The Reverend Kooka Speaks About Religious Bulls#!t
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OH MY GOODNESS!
You are 100% correct!
Can anyone tell me if there is a hell thermometer... I am sure it musta frozen over!
posted by
homegirl
on September 28, 2005 at 8:14 PM
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"obvious and open bias towards the Catholic teachings"
Kooka--As I said, OF COURSE they are going to be biased. Most parents send their Catholic school for the purpose of learning more about their own religion. But they are open about it, and it's not a secret.
And times have changed since we all went to school, I'm afraid.
posted by
Renigade
on September 28, 2005 at 2:16 PM
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Ody
I already plan to teach them all that.
posted by
kooka_lives
on September 28, 2005 at 9:31 AM
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Janes
The whole fact that it would be hard to escape from some level of Bias is one of the big factors that makes it hard for such a class to ever gain acceptance.
posted by
kooka_lives
on September 28, 2005 at 9:30 AM
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r-3
Atheism would fall under
3 particular system of faith and worship
or
4 thing that one is devoted to
It is a system of faith and it is something one is devoted to. It is not a stretch at all to call atheism a religion.
I has already said that the Catholic school doing that was step in the right direction. It is not perfect and in the end does not meet the full goals of what I would like to see such a class achieve due to the strong and very obvious and open bias towards the Catholic teachings.
The Diary of Ann Frank and Tom Sawyer were books we had to read at some point in my schooling. And we did talk about those issues in them. I think most of what you are saying to that affect has just changed since your time in school. The idea of any books be banned from the public schools really is not happening. Censorship is not there in that form.
Since we are talking about that, did everyone here know it is 'Banned Books Week'? So get to your local book store or library and see if they are doing any events focusing on the censorship that is out there.
posted by
kooka_lives
on September 28, 2005 at 9:29 AM
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it would be interesting to know
what section of the country these particular Catholic schools are in.
I have no idea what the education is like here in the Midwest; however, i would suppose that different areas have different curricula, mainly due to the attitudes of people.
posted by
Xeno-x
on September 28, 2005 at 6:37 AM
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kooka--
re-li-gion...belief in a personal God or gods entitled to obedience and worship
2 expression of this in worship
3 particular system of faith and worship
4 thing that one is devoted to
The Oxford American Desk Dictionary
I guess, since you are devoted to the belief that God does not exist, then you could call atheism a religion, but that would be quite a stretch. It's a philosophy, a belief, a standard of living--but hardly falls squarely into the definition of religion.
But if you want to call it that, it was not my intention to offend.
As far as Catholic schools leaning towards their own faith in education. Well, OF COURSE! That's why it's a Catholic school! My point is/was that Catholic schools are much better at teaching other faiths and being open to controversial topics than public schools are.
For example....In my old home, a certain number of "classic" books were taken out of the public school curriculum because parents deemed them to be "dangerous". The Diary of Anne Frank comes to mind. The Adventures of Tom Sawyer was another. Catholic schools not only taught them, but embraced the controversy and utilized that to open up dialogue among students.
Why was Anne Frank persecuted? Just what do Jews believe, anyway? Were just a few of the questions opened up during classes that I PERSONALLY taught. My lesson plans contained activities and quizzes (and this was a literature class, mind you) that forced the students to learn and study the impact of history, religion, and race on what they were reading.
The public school I taught in? I think we read something called Who Ate My Cheese. When I asked about teaching some "meatier" topics, I was informed that we wouldn't want to broach anything religious, dealing with evolution, or even TOUCHING atheism. And believe me when I say that I was the one who pushed for these things to happen.
As for your friend...Let me say this. You are probably right. I dont' know when he was in school. My husband went to Catholic school, as did my best friend. Both complained of the same things your friend did. They felt "indoctrinated" and that they were only learning one perspective. They were right. And I'm sure many faith based schools are still this way (and not just the Catholics, mind you).
However, since Vatican II, there has been a shift--although very slow--towards more openness in not only the church, but in the schools as well. My hubby is amazed at what my nephew (age 13 in Catholic school) and our children are learning compared to when he was younger.
AND FYI---My five year old (on her own, mind you) stated that she doesn't believe in heaven. She believes that souls are "born again" into other living beings over and over. I mentioned this to her teacher (Catholic), who said, "My, it's wonderful that Lauren is so spiritual"--despite the fact that reincarnation is a Buddhist (as I'm sure you know) belief more than a Catholic one.
So, yes. Catholic schools are going to make sure that students walk away with a stronger view of the Catholic church than other belief systems. However, I still stand behind what I said...They are doing a much better job of teaching about all belief systems (the major ones, at least) than any public school. And I've worked in both...
posted by
Renigade
on September 27, 2005 at 9:12 PM
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We could always teach our children
about religion at home. Even “religions of the world”! Good post!
posted by
telemachus
on September 27, 2005 at 6:25 PM
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Well, wouldn't ya know, something we agree on!
If public schools were willing to give EQUAL TIME and WITHOUT BIAS (yeah, right) to the major world religions, as well as use primary sources (i.e. Koran, Bible, oh yes, and whatever text atheists use, etc) I'm all for it. Of course it's wishful thinking that the classes would be taught without bias, but if the student has equal access to the PRIMARY sources . . . go for it.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on September 27, 2005 at 6:16 PM
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I went to catholic school for the first 8 years of my education. (mind you this was 40 years ago, but I wanted to talk anyway). I'm not up with the current curriculumn but I don't think evolution was ever breached and any sex education I got from my more learned friends.
But I want to know this, which religion does the Christian God choose? That's the ticket. Imagine how embarrassing it would be to die and then find out you lived your whole life by some dogma that God disagreed with. It's so difficult.
posted by
DebbieDowner
on September 27, 2005 at 5:22 PM
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r-3
I never claimed you were lying, just that your bias would cause you to see things differently. You are not trying to be untruthful, for what you claim is what you believe to be the truth. I might however disagree with the actual class being as much as you feel it is.
You will notice the first focus is on the Catholic beliefs for three courses, then one course on everything else. While I do applaud that, it it not showing equal respect to each, since ti very much puts that Catholic ideas first and foremost. Which is what I had figured. It is a step in the right direction though.
And why is atheism not a religion? It is not an organized religion, but it is a set of religious beliefs and is truly as much a way of life as any Christian faith could be.
posted by
kooka_lives
on September 27, 2005 at 4:40 PM
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http://duchesne.creighton.edu/Theology.htm
Here is one of the schools--all girl--that I worked with during my studies.
You will see that religions of the world are offered as a course. However, the curriculum does not (can not) possible relay the number of assignmentst that were given to the girls concerning understanding, finding out, and documenting religious beleifs of the world--including atheism (although it's not a religion).
posted by
Renigade
on September 27, 2005 at 3:46 PM
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One more thing...I will, however, try to find the websites of Catholic
schools I've worked with in the past to see if I can find their curriculum and then provide you with the links.
posted by
Renigade
on September 27, 2005 at 3:39 PM
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kooka--Must say I am insulted that you would insinuate my "bias"
would cause me to lie. How offensive is that?
posted by
Renigade
on September 27, 2005 at 3:36 PM
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r-3
I can very much understand that as I do not post any personal information about my children here as well.
As for taking your word, due to the bias that you naturally would be coming from I can not. I can believe that you believe the school to teach such, but that does not mean I would agree. I seriously can not believe that a Catholic school would give equal respect to other religions and teach them as being possibilities. I have never heard of this happening and it does seem far fetched. Of course the idea of showing respect for all religions you would have most likely differs from mine.
Regretfully it would be hard to provided proof without you compromising a level of personal security so I am not going to push the issue.
posted by
kooka_lives
on September 27, 2005 at 3:27 PM
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kooka--I am a teacher and have worked in Catholic schools, so I
know this to be true. As for giving you the NAME of the school my chidren attend...You can see why I may not want to divulge that, can you not? If you can't take my word on it, I have no desire to publicize my childrens' whereabouts to a "stranger" to prove it.
posted by
Renigade
on September 27, 2005 at 2:20 PM
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kooka_lives -- are you ready for this?
My youngest daughter chose to go to a catholic high school entirely on her own. I didn't stop her and am now glad that I did not. Most of what you are contending is fairly accurate but appreciate that we are speaking of school systems in 2 different countries. Religion is not taught in anything but two select classes throughout the entire 4 year stint. The first class is appropriately entitled "religion". One hour a day for grades 9 and 10. The other class kicks in when the student reaches grade 11 and is entitled "the history of religion" with the student having a choice to remain in the "religion" class for 2 more years or switch to "the history of religion" class. Do not think by this that other religions are equally represented however as religion class teaches full blown catholic dogma, creationism and all, while the history of religion class teaches primarly history as it pertains to religion. Other religions are only really covered when discussing topics such as the crusades etc. and almost never in a depth that would allow insight into what others believe.
All in all it is a fairly normal school with science class teaching science and religion class teaching religion. The faculty is very good and not necessarily all of the catholic faith as they claim to hire the most qualified first and foremost. My daughter chose this school because of their science curriculum which has been a straight line to dental school for many.
posted by
gomedome
on September 27, 2005 at 1:08 PM
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r-3, ginn
I am finding that somewhat hard to believe. I have had friends who went to Catholic school and from they have told me the main focus on religion there is to get them to learn the Catholic faith and nothing else. One of them even told me it felt like they were trying to brainwash him at times and he is now very much fed up with the Catholic church due to such ways.
Now if I am wrong and Catholic school are teaching the religions of the world I find it next to impossible to believe that they do this equally and with true respect for each. Their focus is going to be on Catholicism above all others. In fact I can not find any Catholic School curriculum that does not make it clear the focus is on Catholic values.
Evolution being taught in Catholic schools? I find that a little far fetched. The list of curriculum I can find on line makes it clear they keep away from that.
As for sex, well I would never trust the Catholic system to teach anyone about sex. That is just me though. So far Catholics have been one of the largest problems with their young girls going out and getting abortions due to the misguided teaching. For although I think it has gotten better, I do knot for a fact it was practically an epidemic among catholic girls a decade ago. And why would you start teaching ti form Kindergarten? My five year old who just started kindergarten has no clue that nudity has anything to do with sex or why there are girls and boys or any of that. I figure he should get a few more years before we really worry about it and let him start asking the questions.
As for the idea that public schools do not allow people to 'dissect' "controversial" literature, I saw no signs at all of that when I was in school. I saw all manner of literature being read in school as the students pleased. There were Bibles and prayer groups even.
Could you send me the names of these school so that I can personally check out their curriculum on-line. Everything I have found so far does not agree with any of that. I am not saying you are lying, just that I find it hard to believe and am unable to find any Catholic School curriculum on-line that backs this up.
posted by
kooka_lives
on September 27, 2005 at 12:45 PM
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kooka_lives, My four sons finished highschool in the early 1980's and, along the line of which you speak, nothing seems to have changed. We sent our sons to a private Christian School that taught these subjects. I think that probably Gomedome is right about why our public schools do not.
posted by
TAPS.
on September 27, 2005 at 10:26 AM
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ginnieb--EXACTLY. Which is quite ironic, is it not?
posted by
Renigade
on September 27, 2005 at 10:14 AM
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kooka_lives -- this is an idea that you would think could find widespread
support but for some reason it has been resisted for years. No one religion wants to give airtime to another religion. Little wonder there are people wandering around in this world expousing the values of one faith system while decrying the shortcomings of all others from a position of total ignorance.
posted by
gomedome
on September 27, 2005 at 9:50 AM
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I sent mine for the same reason Reni...
...and I liked the fact that they covered sex education from kindergarden all the way up.
posted by
ginnieb
on September 27, 2005 at 8:18 AM
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KOOKA--Wanna know why I send my kids to Catholic school?
Because in their school, learning about all scientific theories (evolution etc..) concerning the origination of earth--as well as all major religions--is in the curriculum. In addition, they are much more "free" to dissect literature that public schools have deemed too "controversial". What religion they choose is up to them, but at least (as far as school goes) I know they'll have an educated opinion. If public schools had these options, they would be there.
posted by
Renigade
on September 27, 2005 at 8:15 AM
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