Go to God as The Universe as an Organism
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Xeno
Good questions. I have another one. If there is a creator of intelligent design, then who created the creator?
posted by
DebbieDowner
on September 28, 2005 at 2:44 PM
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thank you lamp-1
i'll let cantey's exposition stand for now and allow others to comment on it.
however, all the perceivers of INtelligent Design also believe that there is an order to the Universe.
there is much chaos, however.
We get into the subatomic world -- we look at the cosmic world -- we see things that don't fit into our definition of order.
even in mathematics -- there is a point past which orderly mathematics ends and it becomes entirely chaotic. There's a theory regarding that . I think I'll look it up some time. A friend told me about it -- he understood what he was talking about while I stood there somewhat blank.
but it's still interesting.
Chaos is everywhere that our perceived order is.
posted by
Xeno-x
on September 27, 2005 at 7:10 AM
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Proof of Design
From Bertrand Russell"s The History of Western Philosophy:
The physico-theological proof is the familiar argument from design, but in a metaphysical dress. It maintains that the universe exhibits an order which is evidence of purpose. This argument is treated by Kant with respect, but he points out that, at best, it proves only an Architect not a Creator, and therefore cannot give an adequate conception of God. He concludes that "the only theology of reason which is possible is that which is based upon moral laws or seeks guidance from them.
The cosmological proof: If anything exists, then an absolutely necessary Being exists; now I know that I exist; therefore an absolutely necessary Being exists, and this be ens realissimum..
Lamp-1
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posted by
LAMP-1
on September 27, 2005 at 6:07 AM
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1. What does Intelligent Design entail? Just the state of the Universe as it is? The entire development of the universe from beginning to end? :my belief concerning this is the mind of God produced what we now know as physical law, mathmatics, etc. It was his intelligence, faith, creativity and foresight that propeled it into being for his creatures to enjoy, explore and inhabit over the ages of deathless expanding society. It was done out of love, which is simplistic and foolish sounding to people ,I know. But that is the motivating factor behind the universe. THe mind of man was created far, far, FAR more intelligent that it is currently functioning. And the reason it is functioning below potential is because of the spiritual catastrophe known as rebellion ( pride) or sin. All we can do is imagine what would have been.
2.Does Intelligent Design allow for mistakes, or is it perfect? : it was created perfect, but has been marred and disrupted because of a conflict of forces.
3. If it is perfect, then are what we perceive to be mistakes really part of the perfection? How do we explain what we perceive to be mistakes in Intelligent Design? : it has been marred and disrupted. I believe what we perceive to be mistakes are in fact mistakes.
4. How long did it take for the designer? : I don't know.
5. Is it ongoing? : I dont know. My theory is the earth and the universe was entrusted to humanity to tend and to keep, manage and explore. It is a living system.
6. Is human suffering part of Intelligent Design? : in my opinion absolutly not.
7. The suffering of the righteous along with the sinners -- how is this part of Intelligent Design?: since suffering was not part of the original design, but was brought about by humanity itself, suffering does not descriminate between " sinners" and the " righteous". If you are human, you are susceptable.
posted by
calmcantey75
on September 26, 2005 at 2:42 PM
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Xeno
I saw these questions earlier today and I have been thinking about them I will give you my take soon.
posted by
calmcantey75
on September 26, 2005 at 2:16 PM
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Xeno-x -- I'm going to take a stab at elaborating on this ---again
This topic is like herpes, it keeps resurfacing and never seems to be cured.
posted by
gomedome
on September 24, 2005 at 5:58 PM
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Xeno -
I'm also reminded of Darwin's prediction, based on his theory of evolution, that because an orchid in Madagascar had developed a very long nectary (a long tube - 10 to 11 inches -holding the nectar of the flower), a moth must have, through evolution, also have developed a very long probosces that could reach down into the nectary to retreive the treasure at the bottom. This moth had to exist because all orchids have their pollen dispersed from flower to flower by moths who stick their probosces into the nectary. At the time of this prediction, no moth like this had ever been seen. I believe it was more than 40 years before the moth was found. And sure enough, it had a very long proboscus that uncurled when it was ready to retreive the nectar in the bottom of the very long nectary of these particular orchids. Just another example of the theory of evolution at work.
posted by
sannhet
on September 23, 2005 at 7:34 AM
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Xeno -
While I'm a believer in both sides of the evolution/creation argument, I wonder where the evidence is for intelligent design, since it seems to be pushed as a replacement for the science of evolution. At least with evolution, we have examples (evidence) of this process happening, especially with bacteria, viruses and genes.
posted by
sannhet
on September 23, 2005 at 7:24 AM
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