Go to The Reverend Kooka Speaks About Religious Bulls#!t
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r-3
If you think my posts are directed at only Christians you have not read enough of them. With-in the last dozen there is a post where I really go off on Astrology. Also, the idea lately has been towards believers. That idea goes beyond Christians. That would include any set of beliefs that have the Biblical God in them. Yes most believers that are here on Blogit will be Christian and so at that level when I talk about believers on Blogit that would be the main group being talked about. Buddhism is about the only one I have found that makes sense to me, But even there it is just not for me. I have often compared Muslims to Christians pointing out that the two faiths are practically the same thing.
The truth be told I have never ahd any true issues with a church. I have no agenda. It is not Christianity I have issue with, but organized religion and those who are false about their beliefs. If you fit into the majority that this post was not about, then I am obviously not talking about you. I start the post out with "Now first off I am not saying all the Christians here on Blogit are liars,".
It is not the questioning of me that make me feel you are 'sticking [your] head in the sand and not wanting to question anything', but the issue of you not understanding why I question as I do. You seem to take it as an attack against all Christianity if I point out what is going on with various Christians.
If you look back through our comments to teach others you will see that I got that impression when you said "How can you call that looking for truth? And, if you are an atheist, just WHAT are you looking for? Have you not already answered your own question? Why try to question why others believe as they do? And why try to constantly find examples of "bad" believers?" All of which seems to be trying to get me to stop asking the questions I ask. It also shows in my mind you do not understand just what one needs to do when one questions things. if anything I see a fear there in the idea of questioning.
Also go and read my post on how it was through atheism that I was able to pull my life together when as a child belief in God gave me nothing. Seriously it seems to me that if I had not turned to atheism when I did I might have ended my life by now. That is one post you really need to read if you wish to understood me better. It was just a few posts ago and should be easy to find.
posted by
kooka_lives
on September 22, 2005 at 5:22 PM
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Kooka--Let's start this completely over since it's hard for me to
fully communicate to you what I think of your post with children underfoot and bread baking...
First...I AGREE with you that the biggest liars seem to also be the biggest zealots. However, I believe it's because they use their religion as a cloak--used to throw off suspicion. Just as a pedophile might become a scout leader to seem like the perfect kind of guy to leave your kids with, so might a liar and cheater become "religious" to seem as if he's living a "wholesome" life.
That said...
What I'm trying to understand is why all of your "questions" seem to be directed only at Christians? Like I mentioned earlier, I have not read all your posts, so when I ask this I mean it in all sincerity: Do you hold Islam, Buddhism, and other religious belief systems to the same scrutiny that you do Christianity? If not, then why? If so, then show me the posts.
And...
Believe me when I say that I am usually the FIRST to stand in line and question religious leaders and their motives. Likewise, I am the first to question (as you mentioned) why the biggest liars always seem to be Christian. All I can say is that most Christians try to lead a life that is morally and spiritually responsible. The minority of liars, cheaters, and swindlers are just that--a minority. They do not represent us as a whole.
For you to constantly be making statements such as these really makes me wonder if you don't have an agenda (hidden even to you) against Christianity. Did you have a bad experience in church? Did you almost drown in Holy water? WHY is it that Christianity draws the most fire from you? That's all I'm asking.
It's not an attack. I'm not offended by your divergent views. I'm commenting and asking because I DO want to know. But you choose to believe that I don't, which is your right, I suppose.
When I question you, you become defensive as well. You accuse me of sticking my head in the sand and not wanting to question anything just because I ask why you choose Christianity as your punching bag over and over. You must have a reason.
Now, in the infamous words of Forrest Gump, "That's all I got to say about that."
Now, if you'll excuse me, my Bible is in need of thumping. Does anyone have any band aids? My finger is sore.
posted by
Renigade
on September 22, 2005 at 10:53 AM
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r-3
Are you saying I should be happy when I see person who I feel is not wanting to grow or is opposed to growth? That was not an attack nor was it demeaning. The full quote should have made that clear.
"Your state of mind saddens me. You are unable to see that growth only comes from understanding and understanding only comes from questioning."
I said that because that was the impression you were giving me, and still are at some level. You hold issue with my questioning ideas of beliefs.
posted by
kooka_lives
on September 22, 2005 at 10:38 AM
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"Your state of mind saddens me." Nuff said.
posted by
Renigade
on September 22, 2005 at 10:32 AM
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r-3
"Funny, I managed to question you without trying to demean you. You should try the same next time."
By saying that you were trying ot demean me. Otherwise you would not have said it at all. And the end of it was not ht truth, since I never try to demean anyone. Also that could be seen as attacking with the way you finished it. More or less that could be seen as an attack on my character.
How have I tried to demean or attack you?
posted by
kooka_lives
on September 22, 2005 at 10:22 AM
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And I don't find it to be an attack. Your attitude in your responses to
my honest questions, however, are another story. Period. Think about it.
posted by
Renigade
on September 22, 2005 at 10:14 AM
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I merely stated the truth.
posted by
Renigade
on September 22, 2005 at 10:12 AM
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renigade3
I find it interesting that your last line there ends up contradicting itself. By saying such in that manner you are doing what you are claiming to not do.
So my first question to you is when do I demean believers? I always make sure my post say 'some', ' A good deal' or something to that affect. I make it very clear time and time again that I do not stereotype all believers. I am constantly questioning without demeaning while being 100% honest with what I say.
I do not think I have written a full post that would satisfy you idea of a 'positive' post for believers. I know for a fact I have written some very positive posts here though. At some level what you might call the negative posts are positive, in that they present ideas of just what is going on and confronts them. Is it better ot just ignore reality just because you might not like it? That seems to me to be what you are pressuring me to do.
A truth is that if you a only focus on the positive you will not fix any of the problems. Also, I do not only focus on the negative here. I write what is on my mind and there are posts that even the most anal of believers will have to admit are very positive in this blog.
The reason I felt you were trying to not question your beliefs is because you find that my questioning beliefs in general to be some kind of attack and you do not understand how I can be searching for answers by doing what I am doing. Nothing here is meant to be an attack on anyone's faith.
posted by
kooka_lives
on September 22, 2005 at 10:11 AM
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kooka--You could not be further from the truth. If I didn't want to know
then I wouldn't have commented/asked, would I? And what would you think of someone who repeatedly focused on only the negatives of atheism. Show me a post in which you actually give some credit to Christianity and believers, and I'll be more likely to believe that you aren't carrying some baggage that you are attempting to lunload on Christianity and believers. Honesty, show me. Or you don't have to, I'll go back and read for myself. Pretty adventurous for someone who doesn't want to grow, huh?
Funny, I managed to question you without trying to demean you. You should try the same next time.
posted by
Renigade
on September 22, 2005 at 9:50 AM
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renigade3
Your state of mind saddens me. You are unable to see that growth only comes from understanding and understanding only comes from questioning.
And where did you get the idea that atheists are not looking for the answers? if anything atheists are looking for answers while believers have settled on the easy ones. I wish to understand the universe. I wish to understand man. I wish to understand everything I can.
Why do I talk about God so much? Because the ideas of God and religion are very much a part of our society, for good or bad. And to better understand man in general I need to better understand religious ideas. I do not 'bash' Christians or their beliefs. I question them and promote debate and thinking. I present possibilities here.
Do I point out the flaws in beliefs and the anti-productive attitudes and actions of believers? Of course. That is just being honest and presenting the reality of it all. How else is one going to be able to answer questions if they do not present the facts?
Is it wrong for me to challenge others to question and grow through that questioning? I have seen some here who are very much afraid of the questioning and looking at their own beliefs honestly and openly and they very much get mad at me when I challenge them in any way.
Your comment give the appearance of someone who does not wish to question their own beliefs at all or take a good look at the kind of person you are. Instead you seem to want the comfort of accepting ideas without question and going with the easy answers to it all.
posted by
kooka_lives
on September 22, 2005 at 9:43 AM
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kooka--Yes, I will read through your posts. However, have you not
noticed the regularity in which you seem to "bash" Christianity? How can you call that looking for truth?
And, if you are an atheist, just WHAT are you looking for? Have you not already answered your own question?
Okay, so you don't believe in God. Now try to live your life in a manner that you hold true to your morals and inner voice. Why try to question why others believe as they do? And why try to constantly find examples of "bad" believers?
Doesn't make sense to me.
For someone who doesn't believe in God, you sure do talk about him an awful lot.
posted by
Renigade
on September 22, 2005 at 9:26 AM
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renigade3
You would ask me to give up me search for answers?
While I do not have Bible-thumpers bugging me daily, I do encounter them very often. And if you would read through my posts here you will find I do focus on other aspects of spirituality, it is just the basic Christians beliefs are the most dominate in this country and the ones that need to be questioned the most at this point. When another religious group reaches that level I will be going after them just as much. It all has to do with questioning ideas, looking at the possibilities and discovering answers.
Oh, I do not find Satanist to be shameful at all. Some of their beliefs are very interesting. it really makes no sense to connect Satanists with Atheists though. Satanists believe in God, while Atheists do not. The two groups really have no connection.
posted by
kooka_lives
on September 22, 2005 at 8:46 AM
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*not*
posted by
Renigade
on September 22, 2005 at 8:24 AM
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I'll ot try to convert. I'm just curious as to why you spend so much
of your time focusing on what's wrong with believers. Why not just move on? I find it difficult to believe that you are occusted by Bible-thumping believers trying to whack you over the head on a daily basis--thus meriting the limiless amount of posts you devote to them.
Ignore them. They are to us (regular believers) what a Satanist is to you--shameful.
Period.
No?
posted by
Renigade
on September 22, 2005 at 8:23 AM
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the narrow way and the strait gate
few people really discover how to act "Christian" toward other people; although maybe a new term would be preferred -- say, "humanistic"???
This requires respect, honesty, responding to what is said in an honest, respectful manner, instead of resonding with innuendo, name-calling, misinterpreting, promoting your own agenda without addressing the specific issue, etc.
IN all religions, and in many philosopies, there is that perception of a "higher" way of interacting with others. However, this is not emphasized and not practiced enough.
It is the Christians who fail to revisit the real source of their philosophy who fail also to represent Christianity well; also fail to fulfill what they espouse (that is, "practice what the preach").
There are far too many of them. Here on Blogit, we get many people who want to espouse their personal philosophy, and in so doing, fail to respect others'. These people need to "repent", or as the original language of Acts states, "reconsider and change". Look at themselves and their actions and strive to acquire new attitudes and engage others in a more positive manner.
posted by
Xeno-x
on September 22, 2005 at 8:07 AM
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renigade3
I've been told that all non-believer were Satanist and completely immoral.
I have taken no offense from you and I am far from being angry. I do not anger easily. I see no use for anger since it normally clouds judgment can causes people to do really stupid things.
I personally do not get offend by anyone having their beliefs. It is part of being able to live freely and believe as you need to. The offense comes when those who believe try to force beliefs on others, try to create a moral standard based fully on their beliefs above the rights of others and attempt to degrade people who do not share their beliefs.
Believe as you will and we will get along fine as long as you do not try to convert me or tell me I am immoral and lost. I enjoy debate and looking at possibilities.
posted by
kooka_lives
on September 22, 2005 at 7:25 AM
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kooka--I have. Never said I hadn't. But believing and doing are
two different things. Some can, some can't. Those who are in denial talk about how well they can. It's a universal thing, I think, amongst believers AND non-believers. There are always going to be a few bad apples, but that's the case in all groups. They don't dictate how the rest believe or behave. It would be like me saying that all non-believers must be Satanists.
Anyway, think what you want. I live my life the best I can and I'm a believer. I don't claim to be perfect, but I try to live a virtuous life. If you find that offensive, then so be it. My goal in life is not to try to make anyone believe. You either do or you don't. I just hope you find whatever it is you are looking for, because you sound angry.
posted by
Renigade
on September 22, 2005 at 7:07 AM
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renigade3
But there are a good deal of believers who do claim to be more righteous, more perfect and more moral than non-believers just over the fact of beliefs itself. It has nothing to do with facts to prove they are more moral, just they own egos saying that because they believe they are better than those who do not believe.
Can you honestly say you have never seen believers who have shown that kind of attitude?
posted by
kooka_lives
on September 22, 2005 at 7:01 AM
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I don't know about others, but I do know this...
Christianity is a PATH, not an END. Therefore, Christians (if they are faithful, that is) are always reaching for a higher moral and spiritual plane. Paths do have rocks, however, and sometimes we trip. A virtuous Christian never claims to be perfect, but they do try.
posted by
Renigade
on September 22, 2005 at 6:42 AM
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Odysseus -- That comment tells me that you just don't get it and probably
never will. Whine and cry? I am content to just leave you alone, as I have demonstrated over the last few months. You on the other hand feel that you are owed an audience of some sort and that the rules of behaviour and courtesy, that we are all subject to in a public forum, do not apply to you. All of your contrived complaints are based on the content of my postings, though you have tried to extend them into character deficiencies. You have the choice to simply not read my postings but instead chose a pro-active campaign of harrassment and slander. Call it winding me up in return if you think you can justify such attrocious behaviour, it matters not to me, I'll be happy to leave you alone in perpetuity if need be.
posted by
gomedome
on September 22, 2005 at 6:37 AM
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kooka
I see it the way that you do about not backing down until you are proven wrong. But I do not wish to be an antagonist, especially after this situation with Gome, so if you ever just feel like ending a debate, just say so. A simple word will do.
posted by
telemachus
on September 22, 2005 at 12:47 AM
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gomedome
It is absolutely amazing how one who boasts so much about “winding up Bible thumpers”, can whine and cry like this when someone finally winds them up! Listen, again, I apologize for offending you. I do not wish to continue to offend you. I am sorry!
posted by
telemachus
on September 22, 2005 at 12:35 AM
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kooka_lives -- I've only had to block one blogger permanently
It was really a matter of said blogger never admitting or even understanding that it was their behaviour that got them blocked. Still to this day, said blogger is trying to make a case to suggest that it is some kind of character deficiency on my part that does not allow this person to comment on my postings. Even going as far as to suggest that it is some kind of fear on my part or the inability to defend myself adequately. These contentions are laughable considering that I have only ever blocked one blogger. Some people just can't handle being told to get lost. It is even harder for people to admit to themselves that they deserved it.
posted by
gomedome
on September 21, 2005 at 9:45 PM
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Ody
The funny thing is most of the leis have really been more about ego than anything else. Generally they will say something and then either deny they had said it, try to pretend it meant something else or when I would confront them with the facts they would make stuff up instead of admitting they were wrong. From right there they show a weakness in their faith. There have been a coupe of times I have been proven wrong (It is very rare, but does happen) and I have openly admitted to be wrong then. I have not tried to deny my mistakes or try to claim what I had said to be my opinion still, even after I was shown that I was wrong. After all opinions can not be based of off something that has been proven to not be the truth. Generally it was those who just spit out whatever they could and could not back up what they were saying with anything like facts and so had to start lying or admit they had made mistakes. It did say their egos were more important than truth.
And thank you for the compliment. I have yet to block anyone, although I have been blocked by one or two bloggers myself. With all I have been through in life I have learned when I should and should not back down. In a general deabte I do not see the point of backing down until I have been proven wrong.
posted by
kooka_lives
on September 21, 2005 at 7:38 PM
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Kooka
I don’t know what these situations are that you refer to but I do wonder what motive any Christian could possibly have to speak an untruth to you. We should all join together in pursuing the truth in all things. Essential truths are the ways in which God makes himself known to us.
Try to remember that people exist at all sorts of different levels of spirituality and mentality; and they secure themselves spiritually in different ways. It is quite immature when certain bloggers prey upon those with lesser intellect, often disrupting their entire belief system; and then hiding within their blog, by blocking bloggers with whom they are unable to contend.
At least one thing I can say about you buddy is that you are like Rocky Balboa. No matter what kind of beating you take, you never run and hide in your corner (or in a blocked blog). You are always ready to engage, unlike some crybaby wimps here, who refuse to field comments and questions about the statements they make in their blog! I can firmly respect you for that! Be good!
posted by
telemachus
on September 21, 2005 at 6:45 PM
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heavy sigh
Good post!
posted by
calebs_blogger
on September 20, 2005 at 8:04 PM
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kooka_lives -- my favourite was the time a certain blogger
told us that she fed 100 families a month out of her own pocket. I didn't call her on it but instead just provided a quick math lesson suggesting how impressed I was at someone being able to part with 1/2 million dollars per year to feed strangers. I dunno, was my estimate of $100.00 per week per family too low? I tried to factor in the economies of scale and average the family size at 4 persons. Anyways, a few blogs later, said blogger was writing about tough financial times she was experiencing. Maybe she should have kept some of her burgeoning wealth for herself instead of giving it all away? But even my little math lesson was too much for her. I was called everyhing under the sun in a very un-Christianlike manner. It's pretty sad when people find themselves doing this. There are many factors at play as well. From trying so desperately to prove themselves right to not having the ability to construct valid contentions. Sad.
posted by
gomedome
on September 19, 2005 at 11:44 AM
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Kooka
I really like your approach. Logic rules, I say
posted by
mysteria
on September 19, 2005 at 11:20 AM
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Kooka I love ya for your honesty. I don't care about our differences...
you give belivers and non-believers, alike, alot to think about. I wish more people would be open (as you and I are) about accepting differences and finding a common ground!
posted by
Masky
on September 19, 2005 at 10:57 AM
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Masky
Thank you for the comment.
Really that is the kind of comment I have no problem with. It was honest and not insulting or attacking. Believers who show respect like that are not the ones I have a problems with.
posted by
kooka_lives
on September 19, 2005 at 10:53 AM
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Kooka...I thought of you in church yesterday...the minister was
trying to teach Christians to embrace those with different belief systems. He said, "Imagine what a non-believer thinks of believers when he or she hears the lyrics to some of our hymns: We are baptized in the blood....no wonder non-believers think we're crazy."
This is beside the point of your blog, I know, but I do enjoy your perspective. Kudos!
posted by
Masky
on September 19, 2005 at 10:49 AM
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