Go to Religion in the Modern World
- Add a comment
- Go to A few quick questions for Christians to choke on?
twodog -- I wondered how long it was going to take for some bible thumper
to come out of the woodwork and make one of the most foolish statements ever put to print.
"If the true tenants of Christianity are followed, there will be freedom of thought and action for all."
This statement should be in the delusional hall of fame. It starts with the ever elusive "if" and leads us right into a notion that can be considered nothing other than full blown comedy. As for your first point. Does it not strike you as strange that in the Gospels of John he refers to himself numerous times in the third person?
posted by
gomedome
on August 10, 2005 at 8:12 PM
| link to this | reply
Xeno-x -- it's safe to say that a very large piece of the puzzle was
intentionally censured. People tend to forget that as the Roman Catholic church was forming, it was nothing more than a self serving political organization intent on world domination and control. I find it both intriguing and almost unbeliveable that there is nothing written about Jesus from his time to be found anywhere.
posted by
gomedome
on August 10, 2005 at 6:54 PM
| link to this | reply
good questions
also i notice how little people know of the situation -- proves your point.
Paul's evangelism popularized The Way, which is what it was called until people in Antioch called the believers "Christians".
believers wanted to know more about Jesus. stories and tales handed down were compiled.
about the time of the Jewish War the first gospels were produced.
this was also about the time of Nero's persecutions.
so much was foggy.
and subsequent "church fathers" added to and approved what would be included -- finalized about 300 yrs after.
posted by
Xeno-x
on August 10, 2005 at 6:44 PM
| link to this | reply
two dog
Pray tell me how freedom of thought is possible in a religion - any religion that commands its follower to think in an orthodox way, and brands them as heretics if they don't. This attribute is a defining factor of ALL religions today
posted by
ariel70
on August 10, 2005 at 2:28 PM
| link to this | reply
gomedome
The last paragraph of your post eximplifies why a religious debate is usually fruitless. For example, John, a desciple, wrote his chronocal long before his death, and not decades after, but as he spread the word as a young man, a senior citizen, and the Revelations, just before his death.
Terrible events took place in the name of Christianity, now, terrible events are taking place in the name of Islam. In both cases, the justification for those actions are taken out of context from both books. You attack a Christian belief, others attack a Muslim belief, still others attack non-secular folks in the name of one or the other. If the true tenants of Christianity are followed, there will be freedom of thought and action for all. If the true tenants of Islam are followed, perhaps there will be freedom of thought and action for all. I say perhaps because I don't know enough about Islam to make a definitive statement. However, your evaluation is of Christianity is just as ignorant and uninformed as those who blame all of Islam for the actions of some twelve million radical Islamic fanatics out of one point two billion Muslims.
posted by
twodog
on August 10, 2005 at 2:23 PM
| link to this | reply
ariel70 -- I knew that much from reading some of your earlier postings
It was when you mentioned that it was published in a magazine in Spain that I assumed it was not in English... but you know what Benny Hill used to say abouth those who assume?.
posted by
gomedome
on August 10, 2005 at 1:45 PM
| link to this | reply
gome dome
They are in English. Although I live in Spain, I'm English
posted by
ariel70
on August 10, 2005 at 1:41 PM
| link to this | reply
ariel70 -- now you've peaked my interest
I would be interested in reading it. Is it translated into English or French?
posted by
gomedome
on August 10, 2005 at 1:40 PM
| link to this | reply
gome dome
Excuse the old fashioned " one" Pure affectation, I assure you!
Yes, I've had a 4 part series on the Inquisition published in a magazine here in Spain
posted by
ariel70
on August 10, 2005 at 1:34 PM
| link to this | reply
ariel70 - the Spanish inquisition as horrific as it was is really just a
landmark event to the ongoing activities of the largest criminal oragnization that the world has ever known. What was perpetrated in the futherance of the Christian religion(s) since it's inception makes one wonder just how it carries on. From hired killings to endorsed wars, all the time meddling with the political affairs of the world while accumulating wealth. This is what a little manufactured legend ascribed to the persona of a kid from a poor family in Bethlehem grew into. People will buy anything, its' a wonder the species has survived as long as it has. Your reference to "one"... are you speaking of yourself as having written a paper on the Spanish Inquasition?
posted by
gomedome
on August 10, 2005 at 1:31 PM
| link to this | reply
gome dome
Indeed so ; strong enough to have tortured and murdered millions of people. IN one's reasearch for a four part seris on the Spanish Inquisition, one was appalled at what these holy men did.
I can email this as attachmenst to anyone interested
posted by
ariel70
on August 10, 2005 at 1:19 PM
| link to this | reply
ariel70 -- that's more to the point
examples of huge inconsistancies pop up everywhere if one is not pre-disposed to overlook them. I haven't read any bible passages at length for years (since I was forced to) but do remember that all stories supposedly chronicling the life and times of Jesus are written in the third person. Even his thoughts are outlined by others and even more curiously, his thoughts in scenarios describing him as alone....hello. That faith sure is powerful stuff ain't it?
posted by
gomedome
on August 10, 2005 at 1:03 PM
| link to this | reply
gome dome
Something just occurs ; wasn't Saul a tax-gatherer? One must say that an illiterate tax-gatherer must have been something of a novelty ; even for the novelty mad Romans!
posted by
ariel70
on August 10, 2005 at 12:56 PM
| link to this | reply
ariel70 -- you have encapsulated what I was implying when you say:
"Put simply, it wasn't until the bandwagon really got rolling that people thought " Hey, we'd better start getting tis guy on the record!"
It is important not to forget that Jeruselem was the center for record keeping at the time (the census that brought him to be born there) Lots of literate people in that neck of the woods. I think you said it all in the above quote.
posted by
gomedome
on August 10, 2005 at 12:52 PM
| link to this | reply
gomedome
This paucity -or rather total absence of documents relating to Jesus, may be conrued in several ways ; one being that there just were'nt enough literate people around at the time, within the limited geographical area where Jesus lived.
The other is more cynical, and would, if the ever thought about it at all, be enthusiastically embraced by non-believers. Put simply,it wasn't until the banwagone really got rolling that people thought " Hey, we'd better start getting tis guy on the record!" A view which is supported empirically by that fact that Saul ( Paul ), as Roman, was almost certainly literate. Indeed, as a well bred Roman, one could resonably deduce that he had consireable skills in writing and reading A requisite for every Roman of his class.
One is bound to pose the question ; why isn't there a Gospel According to Saint Paul? This would be far more accurate than one written a century or so later
posted by
ariel70
on August 10, 2005 at 12:45 PM
| link to this | reply