Comments on A last word and an example of teachings different from Christianity.

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thelongroad -- you get funnier as you go

Instead of moving to China I have a better idea. I will try to de-program as many brainwashed cult members as possible right here in North America to make it eventualy a better place to live. One man can only do so much however as God Fan Club members are as numerous as flies.

This is about the only sentence of all that you have written in comment that makes a valid point

"Your sense of morality comes from your environment, and the accepted morals of people who surround you." Not entirely and not always but sometimes overwhelmingly so. There is no doubt that a person's environment growing up plays a big part in the development of their moral center. The individual, from the point of childhood and into adulthood must learn to develop their own sense of inherent propriety. Too many people look for a determination of what is right and wrong without when it must come from within.

posted by gomedome on August 8, 2005 at 8:20 AM | link to this | reply

cantey_1975 --- how have you been?

.....and welcome back. Yep, new friends. The God Fan Club Factory must be working overtime churning them out.

posted by gomedome on August 8, 2005 at 8:04 AM | link to this | reply

I haven't read your previous blogs so I don't know your personal beliefs, but sounds like you are against all religions. Where do you think your anger and pity will get you in life? How will such a crusade bring you any peace or joy in life? And what about the peace and joy that Christianity brings? Take the amazing transformation of Brian Welch, ex-Korn guitarist. He was addicted to drugs and just wanted to die before finding Christ. Now, he is traveling the world helping people in need. Are you going to tell me that you pity him, and he was better off committing suicide?

A life of denial and wishful thinking. These things would be fine if people could just learn to respect the beliefs of others but here's a newsflash. You have no idea what my beliefs are, no idea whatsoever as witnessed by the fact you refer to me as an athiest. You immediately reacted to my references to "your God" as in a fabrication you happen to believe in and one that I do not. The anger comes in that I have to live in the same society where no matter how good a citizen I am or become there will be people that will condescend because I do not support their delusion.

Then move to Communist China. We will always live in a society where people look down on others who are different. It's human nature.

The part I particularly liked is your reference to God and morality. My sense of justice, propriety and moral reference has nothing to do with a manufactured God, it is inherent. It is not found in a little black book nor does it necessitate mumbling in the dark to invisible friends. But this is my favourite part of your comment

Your sense of morality comes from your environment, and the accepted morals of people who surround you.

posted by thelongroad on August 7, 2005 at 11:41 PM | link to this | reply

Gome whats up

seems you've found some new friends

posted by calmcantey75 on August 7, 2005 at 9:24 PM | link to this | reply

thelongroad --- you are too funny

Just ignore the fact that I have stated time and again that I am not an athiest. You've got one point right however, there is a lot of anger in my comments, controlled anger and a lot of pity for anyone who lives a life of pandering to a manufactured delusion. A life of denial and wishful thinking. These things would be fine if people could just learn to respect the beliefs of others but here's a newsflash. You have no idea what my beliefs are, no idea whatsoever as witnessed by the fact you refer to me as an athiest. You immediately reacted to my references to "your God" as in a fabrication you happen to believe in and one that I do not. The anger comes in that I have to live in the same society where no matter how good a citizen I am or become there will be people that will condescend because I do not support their delusion. The part I particularly liked is your reference to God and morality. My sense of justice, propriety and moral reference has nothing to do with a manufactured God, it is inherent. It is not found in a little black book nor does it necessitate mumbling in the dark to invisible friends. But this is my favourite part of your comment

"Then you are intellectually stifling your children by brainwashing them instead of giving them the choice to decide their eternal destiny for themselves."

It doesn't take a Christian long before they are excluding others from heaven now does it? You couldn't have read much of my postings to write this last bit, giving them a choice is exactly what I have done but because that choice isn't an endorsement for Christianity you can't see it.

posted by gomedome on August 7, 2005 at 9:16 PM | link to this | reply

tilt? How about getting to know Buddha...would that do? Sorry, but I cannot take another bible thumper dripping with Jesus juice seriously at this point in my life. You people are just too comical, you contradict yourself within the same sentences while excluding everyone else in the world from heaven as a matter of course. You describe an all loving and all knowing God who doesn't seem to care and seems to screw up regularly. Then if that is not enough you cannot even see that you live an existence of cheap justification while deflecting personal responsibility. Over consuming, polluting, excluding others and insisting that all conform to your shallow and ancient premises so that the world will be a better place? It would be funny if it wasn't so desperately sad.

Ahh, the arrogance of atheism. Why do atheists feel the need to make disrespectful remarks such as "Jesus Juice"? Where is the kindness of atheism? I only see anger and hatred dripping from your comments. I'm sure you feel quite secure in your beliefs which are based on the foundation that God simply does not fit your ideal of morality. But be honest, why do you post anti-Christian rants if you have no desire to listen to Christian apologetics?

I'm afraid you have given me a perfect illustration of exactly why I refused to expose my children to Christian dogma while they were growing up and why we do not have a bible in the house today.

Then you are intellectually stifling your children by brainwashing them instead of giving them the choice to decide their eternal destiny for themselves.

posted by thelongroad on August 7, 2005 at 8:51 PM | link to this | reply

thelongroad -- hoo boy, you've got the cult brainwashing thing going full

I'm afraid you have given me a perfect illustration of exactly why I refused to expose my children to Christian dogma while they were growing up and why we do not have a bible in the house today.

posted by gomedome on August 7, 2005 at 6:04 PM | link to this | reply

"Having said that, what you describe as a personal relationship with the icon of your faith may well be a good description of how I live my life and how I treat others. " Actually, a personal relationship requires getting to know someone. Seeking the person out with an open mind. God only reveals himself to people who seek him. The sad thing is God will never become real to you unless you lay down your pre-conceived notions and negative perspective, and read the Bible, pray, go to church with an open mind. "It boils down to nuances of definition at that point. Where no one can refute the underlying value of the ideals, the truth is that the majority of people claiming to adhere to these ideals are merely talking about it and not applying it, not by a longshot. " It's called a sin nature. Jesus serviced as the litmus test for us to strive to become yet even Christians struggle against their sin nature which desires to do wrong. The Christian life is not easy, but a long shot. The underlying philosophies are also weighted down with the demand that adherants accept the improbable as reality and what is to me an incredibly silly notion in that a so called omnipotent being needs worship to satiate his vanity. This is just the beginning of the inconsistancies. He screwed up in creating us, so much so that we almost immediately displeased him. The fact that we do not fully understand God, or comprehend his nature is not concrete proof to deny his existence. The alternate explanation that we were created by a series of random meaningless events is more improbable. "We are no better off 2,000 years after he sacrificed his only son for us and his so called message is so poorly distributed globally that it brings his omnipotence into question. I have no desire to train my mind to reconcile these gaps in logic amongst a host of other improbabilities and call it "faith". It is my belief that mankind has to move past this outmoded mindset or we will continue to be mired in all of the problems that religion causes in this world." Mankind did try to move beyond "this outmoded mindset". It's called Communism, and a society with no value structure or individuality does not work. We are no better off because we live in a world of sin. Sin destroys beauty, and God can not coexist with sin.

posted by thelongroad on August 7, 2005 at 2:55 PM | link to this | reply

MandaLee -- are you aware that the man died 2,000 years ago?

Having said that, what you describe as a personal relationship with the icon of your faith may well be a good description of how I live my life and how I treat others. It boils down to nuances of definition at that point. Where no one can refute the underlying value of the ideals, the truth is that the majority of people claiming to adhere to these ideals are merely talking about it and not applying it, not by a longshot. The underlying philosophies are also weighted down with the demand that adherants accept the improbable as reality and what is to me an incredibly silly notion in that a so called omnipotent being needs worship to satiate his vanity. This is just the beginning of the inconsistancies. He screwed up in creating us, so much so that we almost immediately displeased him. We are no better off 2,000 years after he sacrificed his only son for us and his so called message is so poorly distributed globally that it brings his omnipotence into question. I have no desire to train my mind to reconcile these gaps in logic amongst a host of other improbabilities and call it "faith". It is my belief that mankind has to move past this outmoded mindset or we will continue to be mired in all of the problems that religion causes in this world.

posted by gomedome on August 7, 2005 at 1:30 PM | link to this | reply

Gomedome, I am so sorry you had a negative experience with

Christianity as a child. Christianity is about one's accepting Jesus as Lord and their relationship with Him. The church building itself (or lack thereof) isn't the most important thing.

Having said that, Jesus never intended for his teachings to be shoved down the throats of people. We have free will to accept or decline a personal relationship with Him.

I am not asking you to set foot in a church building, I was just wondering if you have ever considered a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Just something to think about.

With all due respect,

posted by Amanda__ on August 7, 2005 at 12:53 PM | link to this | reply

thelongroad -- the first thing I will correct you on is the fact that I am

not an athiest. I will also inform you that if you are assuming I have not considered all of what Christianity has to offer you are again mistaken. I had the bible and all of it's outdated nonsense drilled into my head as fact and eternal truth while growing up as many others have.

Now tell me exactly what your contention that the Tower of Babel story is not a fable is based on? Have you ever witnessed direct physical intervention by the conscious entity your religion has created and calls God? The answer is simply no you have not. All of the so called miracles, smighting by God's hand, parting of the Red Sea etc. all took place in one region of the world at a time when mankind was ignorant, superstitious and believed in magic. 2 millenia later there are still people on this planet that insist on acrediting anything they do not understand or cannot explain to an invisible conscious entity that they have created, even when it flies in the face of reason. Even when the fact that mankind's general increase in knowledge has virtually eradicated such explanations as physical intervention by a supreme being. Do you ever ask yourself why the God you believe in is so impotent in this day and age? He hasn't knocked down a tower, parted a sea or left rules behind a burning bush for eons, what gives? Today we are reduced to hearing second hand about miraculous medical recoveries or other nondescript, infrequent and entirely random so called miracles which many insist prove he is in fact real. I contend that it is entirely the preconditioned attitude of those who want it to be true and nothing more. A mindset I wanted my children to escape while growing up.... if they could.

posted by gomedome on August 7, 2005 at 11:43 AM | link to this | reply

"Finally, using a biblical story such as the Tower of Babel myth as a refutation to anything I may put into print in this posting, to me is one big joke. The entire point of teaching my children another faith system while they were growing up was to insure that they did not wallow in this type of intellect stifling futility."

Honestly, I find atheism to be intellectually stifling. I have never once seen an atheist seriously consider a pro-Christian argument. Immediately, the atheist's response is "how can I destroy this argument?" Atheists ignore the fact that there is NO proof that life after death does not exist.

You boldly claim that the Tower of Babel is a myth, and a joke. Yet, where is your supporting evidence? Where is your proof that the Tower of Babel story never happened? Again, atheists made these bold generic statements with no backbone to their arguments. I made valid points, and like every other atheist, you turn a blind eye immediately.

posted by thelongroad on August 7, 2005 at 11:05 AM | link to this | reply

WhiteJedi -- that's it exactly --- they come out of the woodwork spewing

their "Christian comebacks" to any plausible contention posed by others. Like the zombies in "Night of the Living Dead" they clomp along chanting mindless mantras only because so many others are doing it. 2 millenia of closing off all arguments and developing stock answers to them gives us what we have today. Fully grown adults, sometimes even with post secondary education, trying to use a book of fables to promote the proof of the existence of their imaginary friends.

posted by gomedome on August 7, 2005 at 9:53 AM | link to this | reply

thelongroad -- your comment sounds a lot like standard Christian fare

There are many cultures that do not have any simularities in their mythology to biblical stories but two important points are ignored by people that want to believe that the bible is the word of God. The first and most important one is that most simularities are directly linked to historical events that would have affected all cultures. The great flood and the story of Noah is one example. Where only a child could possibly believe that a man was directed to build a boat large enough to carry 2 of every species on earth (the boat would have been bigger than an aircraft carrier) and that he actually accomplished this, the flood itself is referenced in many cultures. The other factor that is skipped right over is the fact that because of the bible's widespread global influence, virtually all of the persons trying to chronical ancient history introduce an element of an attempted reconciliation with the bible. Either unconsciously or directly, the bible inlfuences the findings if not taints them.

Finally, using a biblical story such as the Tower of Babel myth as a refutation to anything I may put into print in this posting, to me is one big joke. The entire point of teaching my children another faith system while they were growing up was to insure that they did not wallow in this type of intellect stifling futility. An individual developing the ability to reconcile the improbable with reality and then calling it "faith" was something I did not want my children to be exposed to.

posted by gomedome on August 7, 2005 at 9:38 AM | link to this | reply

Unfortunately, it seems there's a Christian response to the parallel themes argument too. Of course it's based on a God whose existence hasn't been proved. And it quite handily ignores evolution. It makes more sense to recognize that there are universal themes in every culture. Not because God gave them but because we are all human. Personally I think the Native American mythology is a whole lot smarter. It would do us good to study and learn from animals. Instead of trying to be superior.

posted by WhiteJedi on August 7, 2005 at 8:06 AM | link to this | reply

Comparative Religion = Flawed Argument

Did you know that almost every culture has a Noah's ark type story with many strong similiarities to the Biblical account? The similiarities are not surprising. In fact, they make sense when you look at the story of Babel in Genesis. God created the different tongues, and the race of man was splintered. They went away developing different cultures and the knowledge of creation was morphed and changed to adapt to an unique culture.

posted by thelongroad on August 7, 2005 at 6:20 AM | link to this | reply

I don't have an axe to grind here, so this comment is preach-free.

1. Let's say that divine power of some sort keeps sending more and more "sophisticated" messages about right conduct and right mores (or maybe just changing to fit the times).

2. When is the next installment coming?

a. Has it and we missed it?

b. Was it on Blogit? (I hope not...I just read your blog about Blogit pollution).

Lenny Bruce said if Christ came back, organized religion would "whack him out" before he could stir any trouble. Being a Jew and awaiting the real Messiah might have flavored his thinking...

posted by majroj on August 6, 2005 at 8:35 PM | link to this | reply