Go to Religion in the Modern World
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- Go to Emails from Satan? ---- geez maybe he is real ?????
empty_handed_painter -- I figured you would be okay with it but proper
etiquette demands that I ask you just the same.
posted by
gomedome
on July 25, 2005 at 1:42 PM
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back to the Bible
"I'm all things to all men so that by some means I can save a few" so said the Apostle Paul.
I'm secure in what I believe, so says I.
"As far as the east is from the west, so are my ways from those of men" so says God.
This belief system of mine is not restricted by others.
Maybe I can raise someone's ire here. I try -- doesn't work.
posted by
Xeno-x
on July 25, 2005 at 1:42 PM
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i'm cool with it all
sheesh -- it's nothing compared to what some famous people have experienced -- Ghandi, ML King, Jesus, to name a few. Not that I'm on a par with any of them -- but I don't get bent out of shape over these things -- after all, Ariala and I are family (she got adopted over Blogit about six months ago -- to the surprise of my real son, Kooka [he fnally ended up accepting her -- but she's never sent birthday presents to anybody])
posted by
Xeno-x
on July 25, 2005 at 1:39 PM
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empty_handed_painter -- how do you feel about being the topic of
discussion in these comments? If you find anything objectionable... just let me know and I will delete it.
posted by
gomedome
on July 25, 2005 at 1:33 PM
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sheesh
I don't "belive in" anything.
so there!!
But many things have veracity.
Kooka asks good questions. Few people have good answers.
I think I have discovered -- check my latest GOD AS THE UNIVERSE AS AN ORGANISM -- the best expression of god I can imagine.
Yes, I quote the Bible . . . but it seems the Bible agrees with me on many points.
I have said, there are certain values that are universal and eternal -- meaning they are values that all people everywhere can accept and that promote the well being of people throughout the ages.
But there are things that arise from myth.
Back to the Bible, for a minute -- sometimes I use the bible to demonstrate that, if you use the Bible for your beliefs, then here are passages that you must look at. Don't just pick and choose.
My core belief is, as I said, in the latest GOD AS THE UNIVERSE AS AN ORGANISM -- the rest of what I believe revolves around that -- is built on that -- and even sometimes even has nothing to do with that -- but some of it is what I have discovered somevalidity in -- and yet, if something more valid comes along, I will discard the invalid and embrace the more valid.
But that is all any of us can do.
There are no Truths -- only what is more valid.
posted by
Xeno-x
on July 25, 2005 at 1:30 PM
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Gome, I see what you're saying, but it gets confusing from a reader's
standpoint...still, I love this forum and defend everyon'e right to believe or not believe or believe and not believe at the same time! LOL
(Sorry, the Ayn Rand in me has no time for wishy washy...)
posted by
Ariala
on July 25, 2005 at 7:49 AM
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Ariala -- That is too black and white of a demand
If there is one thing I do understand about this form of questioning it is that the individual is quite often in a transitional phase for extended periods of their lives. That ultimately is what spiritual growth is all about, there is no fully mature or complete stage.
posted by
gomedome
on July 25, 2005 at 7:46 AM
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Gome, well, I see it as wishy washy because one minute he agrees
completely with the atheist side and then he comes into my posts and other fundamentalists and agrees with them. I love my step dad, but I'm like, "So which is it? What do you REALLY believe?"
posted by
Ariala
on July 25, 2005 at 7:40 AM
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Justsouno -- you been playing old Sonny and Cher records again?
nyuk nyuk
posted by
gomedome
on July 25, 2005 at 7:36 AM
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Ariala -- if you can't get a chuckle out of family members ......anyways
I don't see it as wishy washy and as a matter of fact respect and even admire EHP's perspective. There are people in this world that are adherants to a faith system, wish not to abandon it entirely, but must reconcile issues that are inconsitant to them within the dogma.
posted by
gomedome
on July 25, 2005 at 7:35 AM
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And the beat goes on and on
posted by
Justi
on July 25, 2005 at 7:33 AM
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Gome, they can be...and are for many, especially those who believe in
more of a Ying Yang sort of thing where good and evil (though they wouldn't call it this) balance out and are part of everything. It's just that painter sometimes claims to be a Christian and even quotes from "the Bible" but doesn't really believe it (and that's fine)...sometimes he writes as if God doesn't really exist and other times as if he does. I guess I see "wishy washy," and him agreeing with both sides. It's like he believes everything and he believes nothing all at once. He is my step dad and kooka is my step brother, but the ambiguity that empty presents makes me laugh like Christians make you laugh. I guess Universalism does that for me...I'm entitled to a good laugh too, you know.
posted by
Ariala
on July 25, 2005 at 7:27 AM
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Ariala -- I have to ask
Why cannot the two concepts be mutually exclusive?
posted by
gomedome
on July 25, 2005 at 7:12 AM
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Painter, so you believe in God but not Satan? Interesting.
posted by
Ariala
on July 25, 2005 at 7:00 AM
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empty_handed_painter - again you encapsulate one of my postings
admirably. Over my lifetime I have had all manner of people describe all manner of encounters with Satan. Each and every episode without exception does not stand up to any form of thorough scrutiny. It seems the pesky Satan always manifests himself to someone else, never first hand to those who would defend his existence. Not one person in my 50 years has ever related a credible story to even cast doubt on his non existence, not one, ever. Yet we run into those who would vociferously defend this illogical notion without any of the substance that would be needed for any other form of paranormal encounter or spiritual manifestation. Credibility is given a bye simply because so many people have been fed this nonsense and are willing to proliferate the improbable. My beef with this proliferation is solely found in the fact that manufacturing a scapegoat for all that ills society and/or the individual deflects from taking personal responsibility. It's high time we dropped the concept and made each and every member of our societies take a long hard look in the mirror.
posted by
gomedome
on July 25, 2005 at 6:53 AM
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odd
i was never approached by Satan. didn't receive a tract, or an email or a phone message or anything -- didn't talk to me in any way, manner, shape or form.
I never have had dealings with Satan. nothing there. I was told that he existed at one time -- that's the only communication I have had.
People have tried to convince me that Satan is real.
No one has tried to convince me that Satan is not real.
And since I have not encountered Satan, I don't see where I can believe that he is real.
You see, here's the matter: we have in essence, what is really nothing. We have primitive tribal peoples imagining demons of all sorts, we have then this concept of demons and then an arch demon that personifies evil being manufacturerd. We then have people telling us that such a creature really exists.
But we have no proof for such.
Satan hasn't tried to convince me that he isn't real.
Because I don't need convincing. I don't believe in Satan.
posted by
Xeno-x
on July 25, 2005 at 6:24 AM
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Gomedome, yes, that answers the question perfectly...we are very alike
in that. Thanks.
posted by
Ariala
on July 24, 2005 at 7:40 PM
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calebs_blogger - you cover a lot of ground in your comment so let's take
one point at a time. I stop bye your postings fairly regularly but do not consider myself part of your target audience, I simply have nothing to add in way of comment to a Christian affirmation themed posting. This isn't a matter of disagreement as you are suggesting, I am telling you right out in plain English that I am not able to support your delusion of believing in mythical constructs. When someone feels compelled to tell me that they believe in God and Satan, heaven and hell and that we are all going there someday, my first instinctive reaction is to wonder how much more of their beliefs must I endure? Next comes wondering if the person is an imbecile, if they are capable of expanded thought and reason in any manner? These are natural inherent prejudices that have crept into my thought processes from the experiences of dealing with so many people of like mind before you.
posted by
gomedome
on July 24, 2005 at 7:39 PM
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mythical or real?
Yes, I believe that both God and the Devil are real.. and that both heaven and hell are real.. and that all of us will wind up in one or the other eventually. (Ariala - by the way thanks for speaking up for my and your "fantasy")
Whether you believe it or not, I do respect your right to disagree. In fact, I am surrounded at work by people who disagree with me... but we still talk. I don't close the door to discussion and I hope they don't either. So far, my agnostic, Hindu, and Islamic friends are still talking to me.
Also, I think I could argue that I by responding with my heartfelt beliefs I am giving you the fun you said you wanted. I believe the exact quote from your blog is "Nothing beats winding up bible thumpers for fun." Shouldn't you be thanking me? You got your fun and a few "page views" from me too. Maybe you could respond in kind with a few clicks in my direction.
posted by
calebs_blogger
on July 24, 2005 at 6:37 PM
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Ariala -- I do not hold anyone's beliefs against them and whether you
realize it or not you extend the same courtesy to all persons you have dealings with as well. That's all any of us can ask of another but it is a 2 way street. When people begin speaking to me about mythical characters such as Satan with the assumption that I must acknowledge this entity as real simply because they do, my patience is tried. It then becomes a subtle imposition of one's faith on another, something I have learned that you never do. Does that answer your question?
posted by
gomedome
on July 24, 2005 at 5:59 PM
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Gomedome, how come you treat me with respect yet you know I believe
in these "fantasies?" I'm happy you do, but you know what I believe, right?
posted by
Ariala
on July 24, 2005 at 5:38 PM
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calebs_blogger -- I can't tell if you are putting me on or if you just
don't know any better than to discuss a mythical entity with me as a real entity. I live in the real world, no imaginary friends, no omnipotent sky daddy and no speaking of some guy that died 2,000 years ago as if he is still alive. If you want to join the discussion by all means welcome aboard but know that I am incapable of treating deluded fantasies as reality.
posted by
gomedome
on July 24, 2005 at 5:36 PM
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avant-garde -- When I was a little kid I was exposed to this stuff as well
in unhealthy copious doses. It caused all types of nightmares and fear when I was small but the only reaction I can honestly say that it fostered, to subsequently manifest itself as behaviour in my later years was a feeling of deep resentment towards the idiots that would expose young children to this. There was no way that my children were going to hear about Satan until they reached the age where they were able to handle horror stories, because that is all that it is in reality, fiction horror. Unfortunately it becomes more powerful than just a story when some knuckleheaded adult is following a centuries old tradition by relating these stories to children as if they are fact. The moron that would impart such inapropriate fair for children may even be doubly convincing in being stupid enough to believe it themselves. No wonder we have young adults graduating from our colleges that still believe this fairy tale to be factual.
posted by
gomedome
on July 24, 2005 at 5:28 PM
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Satan
Satan is wiser now than before, and tempts by making rich instead of poor.
Author: Alexander Pope
The Christian life is not a way to banish the Devil and his temptation from our life.
In fact, the more we step out in faith to serve God, the more threatening the witness of our life becomes to the Devil. It is likely we will place his cross-hairs on us and target us for extra temptation and difficulty. The Devil need not waste his time on us if we are outside God’s will for our lives already..
......................me
The Screwtape Letters should be required reading
posted by
calebs_blogger
on July 24, 2005 at 1:31 PM
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satan
i think that people believe in it because they were told about it when they were small, before their minds had the ability to think abstractly. i know i was fed this nonsense, and i was afraid. was i happy knowing it? of course not. was i good? no way. i was rebellious, hateful, and selfish. it works on some, but for a lot of people it just breeds hate.
posted by
avant-garde
on July 24, 2005 at 12:12 PM
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