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Not by me, he wasn't. And screw this mobocracy we've created, anyway.
We're leaning so far to the right these days, I'm surprised we haven't knocked the earth out of its proper orbit and crossed Mars' path. Hell, what am I talking about? We have crossed Mars' path and wandered down it a bit.
posted by
saul_relative
on July 2, 2005 at 6:27 PM
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Saul,
I'm not a Bush-basher, either. It's just that he happens to be in power, or the figurehead in power, and so leading the direction the country is going. He is in power, but that's because he was elected, sadly enough.
posted by
Blanche.
on July 2, 2005 at 5:55 PM
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No, I haven't mary_x, but thanks for the heads-up. I'll check it out. The
one thing I am not is a Bush-basher. Most people who get bashed aren't deserving of such treatment, like homosexuals, women and men, and certain personalities. Bush deserves everything being said about him (well, almost everything).
posted by
saul_relative
on July 2, 2005 at 5:52 PM
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Saul,
I happened to notice your comment in Limey's blog about IBM and its Nazi connections during WWII. There's also a connection between Prescott Bush, grandfather of Dubya, and their fmaily fortune in Amalgamated Steel, I believe, which had contracts with Germany and made their fortune off Polish slave labor. Have you seen "The Unauthorized Biography of George W Bush", by Tarpley and Chaitkin? The whole text is online. It's a lot of reading, so I haven't read the whole thing.
posted by
Blanche.
on July 2, 2005 at 5:45 PM
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No, mary_x, it isn't completely off-topic, considering that what we discuss
would have ramifications concerning the legal standings of all citizens. And you are right. I think the ACLU is a great organization for the most part, a bit single-minded and obstructionist at times, but all-in-all a pretty fair-minded organization out for our best interests. With watchdog groups and legal bodies like them, we stand a better chance to get some fair legal rulings. You are also right to be cautious of any such legislation being proffered during this administration, which has shown absolutely no sign of hesitation when it comes to crushing an individual's civil liberties to perpetuate its own interests. The current right-wing neo-con Christian movement in this country is interesting to watch, but we must keep a watchful eye on its formidable and gaining strength and its unwaivering wont to restrict, constrict, and repress in the name of the people -- something that should be done while wearing jackboots and a brown shirt, I might add.
posted by
saul_relative
on July 2, 2005 at 5:23 PM
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Saul,,
It's just that I don't trust the prevailing Administration and the legal minds that are being put into place to want to guard civil freedom for law-abiding people. The irony of all the scrutiny of credit and other personal information is that only people who are just living their lives without trying to hide are scrutinized and privacy lost. Those, like terrorists funded by well-funded governments who can afford bank accounts, fake id, etc. will fly under the radar.
that is somewhat off the topic, but I think related.
posted by
Blanche.
on July 2, 2005 at 5:05 PM
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I am in complete agreement with you, mary_x. There has to be a way that
we can achieve this without setting legal precedent that would allow a snowball effect regarding encroachment on our civil liberties. Like I said, there are plenty of truly brilliant legal professionals who can come up with a workable solution, I am sure.
posted by
saul_relative
on July 2, 2005 at 5:02 PM
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Well said, Ariala, and this is probably how they fly and have flown below
the radar for so long. And, in this regard, "good behavior" is certainly a relative term. Following the rules in prison, under the current guidelines, only allows for recidivism, especially among those who know how to play the system. And when was the last time you heard anyone say, "I knew ole Jeffrey was a pedophile by his obnoxious behavior and the way he would leer and make lewd remarks to all the kids in the neighborhood." ?
If they were that easy to spot, they wouldn't get away with thier crimes for so long. Society has a more immediate way of dealing with known pedophiles and predators, which is another reason why they are as secretive as they are.
posted by
saul_relative
on July 2, 2005 at 4:58 PM
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Saul,
What I find interesting is that not everyone who is molested or abused in turn becomes a molestor or abuser. That says something for human volition, not to perpetuate the damage.
However, once someone has shown themselves to be a dog in the chickenhouse, as farmers know that dogs who develop the taste for chicken, don't stop killing chickens, then you're right, need to keep that dog away from chickens is paramount. It just means that we as a society need to be extra vigilant against encroaching erosions of civil liberties.
posted by
Blanche.
on July 2, 2005 at 4:55 PM
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True enough, mary_x, but the process of adding more time, giving
probationary periods to, and incrementally increasing sentences on pedophiles and sexual predators does not work. Keeping sexual offenders off the streets once they've committed heinous crimes against children or rape is preventive. You cannot alter their psychological or hormonal make-up to stop the escalation of the violence in a sexual predator no more than you can do it with a serial child molester. They are born to it and the effects of what they are born to do resounds and echoes down the long years of existence of every boy and girl and woman and man that has ever been molested or raped, most times with detrimental results on a personal as well as societal level.
The problem we have is that there are no studies that conclusively show that pedophiles or sexual predators continue forever or escalate in number or violence their attacks. It is a general and growing concern, however, and I am sure that any data we have on the subject is going to be thrown out for public cosumption. Protecting everyone's civil liberties while protecting the general populace from serial molesters and rapists may be a hell of a juggling act, but I am sure that there are many in the legal profession who can find the ways to balace the two. Taking care of these predators does not necessarily have to lead to a Nazi-esque solution.
posted by
saul_relative
on July 2, 2005 at 4:51 PM
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saul, a friend of mine's son went in jail for robbery and he told us that
the pediofiles are often the most timid, quiet and compliant prisoners. They may get off for good behavior but they are the worst offenders of all, if you ask me. Good post.
posted by
Ariala
on July 2, 2005 at 4:04 PM
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Saul,
As heinous and reprhensible as this is, and I hesitated even to read your post, because it is a disturbing subject, the other side of the coin, is the legal precedent set by "proactive sentencing", several states have registered sex offender programs, which required a known convicted sex offender to register their address. Policing those and strengthening and giving police the required resources to adequately track sex offenders is as far as I'm willing to go.
Because in what capacity and under what statute would you require sexual predators to be incarcerated for a lifetime? It is the tendency of insitutions to expand their powers incrementally, once one segment of the population is deemed unfit and necessary for them to be put away for life, then society looks for others, like the mentally ill to be put away indefinitely. All our rights are eroded by what is allowed to be done to any segment of the population.
posted by
Blanche.
on July 2, 2005 at 4:04 PM
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An unfortunate form of life sentencing, kingmi. One that is a bane to the
pedophile and rapist as well as society.
posted by
saul_relative
on July 2, 2005 at 3:49 PM
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Saul, I totally agree. I think there is no rehab for pedophiles.
If you are there, you are there for life.
posted by
kingmi
on July 2, 2005 at 3:35 PM
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Amen, kingmi. Pass the chicken, dude. How many times do we have to
be beaten to death with the fact that rehabilitation doesn't work (in most cases). The tiny fraction of cases where rehabilitation works is with individuals who have the desire to be rehabilitated in the first place, a desire that overrides all other desires. Every addict will tell you that they still want what they're addicted to, and it is that desire they fight on a daily basis. Most people give in to their desires. That is why rehab doesn't work -- it is work. Hard work. Tough work. Unacclaimed work. When an addiction happens to be a sexual psychological desire, there is absolutely no guarantees that any rehabilitative thoughts, programs, drug regimen or anything short of isolated incarceration or death that can contain it. Sexual desire is second only to the desire to survive, so you see what we're up against.
posted by
saul_relative
on July 2, 2005 at 3:28 PM
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Saul, this country has got to get back to charging, sentencing, holding
and releasing prisoners on the basis of what they did and not on how willingly they comply with their rehab counselors.
posted by
kingmi
on July 2, 2005 at 3:04 PM
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