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Twodog,
Please, it is very insulting for you to assault my intelligence with this garbage! There is a pathology that suggest the oppressed will mimic the actions of the oppressor! I would suggest that you have deep scars that have you bondage!
It is insane that you and your son think there is glory in fighting for a Nation that destroyed the dignity of your Culture! You may think it is ok to embrace the madness of the sons and daughters of men who murdered and slaughtered the treasure of your being! In truth it is sad! Is there no honoring their "spirit" for the sake of not trivilaizing their sacrifice! No man wants to go voluntarily into bondage! Resistance is sometimes all we have! Living in a free and open society is a great privilege for all humanity, not just Americans!
I really can not express how ignorant you sound from your writing. Were you aware that only 12 count are pending agains Saddam Hussein? You can find 12 counts to indict Bush! Really, you are a sad case. Not to be mean!
Again, God Speed!
posted by
Glennb
on June 23, 2005 at 11:20 PM
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Glennb
Let me make something perfectly clear (An old Nixon phrase), I have everything at stake in a successful Iraqi democracy. My son has already seved a tour in Iraq, and has already received a tentative date for his rotation back. So, your contintion that I have nothing at stake, is, incorrect.
I reckon we're back to gun slinging, and that's fine, like I said, I'll slap leather with you, anytime. Now that you're finally staniding out here on the dusty, dirt, street with me, I reackon it's time to shoot it out.
I'm an old intell man, Glennb, I spent some time spooking, you kow, skulking around in Europe, in civilian clothes, before the wall came down I was trained to look for key indicators to allow me to better assess my own situation, my survivability, and, my man, you keep letting those key indicators slip out.
My culture is the culture of the United States. I believe in the system, I believe in the rule of law, I believe in freedom of thought, expression, speach, to pursue the American Dream. I believe people under the thumb of a brutal dictator should have the right to choose if hey want to live under that thumb, or in freedom. I believe if the world had not stood by and watched the Nazi Regime murder five million people, never mind they were Jews, and stopped him, the world, the German people would be better off.
I believe if the United States and the rest of the free world, had not stood by and watched Pol Pot, murder millions of Cambodians, and took action to stop him, the world would be a better place.
I believe if the United States and the rest of the free world, had not stood by and watched the new Vietnamese unified government use chemical warfare against the mountain people of the Central Highlands of Vietnam, the world would be a better place.
And, I am proud the United States took the lead, and forced a brutal dictatorship out of power instead of continuing to stand by and watch Saddam, and make no mistake, he was the driving force behind it all, murder his own citizens by the hundres of thousands. Remember the mass graves that are still being discovered throughout the countryside of Iraq. I am proud my son, and the sons and daughters of hundreds of thousands of Coalition Military Personell were responsible for a new Iraq, with a freely elected government, that will soon have a Constitution, drawn up by elected representatives of the People of Iraq, that will guarntee freedom of thought, and action, where little girls can get an education, where women are not executed in a public place, where men are not thrown from the top of buildings, one after another, where the son of the leader can't take a woman off the street and rape her, repeatedly, and then set free, to the discrase of her family, and leave her in exil in her own country, because she, disgraced the family, when the rapist knew exactly what would happen to her when he was through. I believe a government that sanctions rape rooms, beheading, torture to death, mass murder, genocide, should not stand. And I would give my life in the effort to free humanity from such oppression. That is the culture of The United States, that's what we do, what we've done, even for the French, the ungrateful so and so's.
Saddam invaded his Southern Neighbor, sacked the countryside, murdered inoccent civilins, remember the bodies left hanging from security lights in the Capital of Kuwaitt? His soldiers looted holy places, museums, caused millions of dollars of damage. A coalition kicked his behind out, and stopped, a big mistake. After the "CEASE FIRE," he used chemical agents to surpress a Curd uprising. He destroyed thousands of acres of wetlands, farm lands, of the people in the south by draining the swamps. You can believe it or not, and I would assume you won't, Saddam was actively pursing even more deadly chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, and left alone would have aquired them, and used them, after all, it wasn't anything new for Saddam.
Now, you can continue to ignore the facts, the history, and continue to blame the United States, George Bush, Dick Chaney, Donald Rumsfield, Carl Rove, the Republican Party, the citizens of the United States, for invading a soverign country, then, drive on cowboy. But, the truth, history, tells the tale. Deny it if you will, thats your right, under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.
posted by
twodog
on June 23, 2005 at 9:00 PM
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Twodog,
I tried not to judge you or your culture and how it has shaped your beliefs. I am still not going to! But you still are missing the truth by rambling and puting everything in a basket of innuendo and hearsay! You could also add they cause "sun spots"! I have no idea what any of what you wrote has to do with George Bush ordering the United States Military to invade a sovereign Nation at this point in human history! There are too many alternatives!
posted by
Glennb
on June 23, 2005 at 8:16 PM
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Glennb, An American Indian, I am.
This is going to be a long one, so, hang on.
Yep, those knot head English, Spanish, Dutch, French, German, Polish, Checks, Slavs, Africans (Buffalo Soldiers, remember) Portugese, Irish, Scotts, Italian, yeah let's not forget the Italian dude that "Discovered" my ancestors digs, and a bunch of other European folks, really kicked our butts. Course, based on they way my folks are trying to live in the past, this contenent would still be, what, six, maybe seven hundred years behind everyone else but the folks clinging to the past in the Middle East.
The thing is, Glennb, those same dirty, rotten, scoundrels, made a big mistake, and drew up a Constitution we could all, my folks, your folks, everybody folks, live under, prosper under, if we are willing to work hard and take part in the system. You can stand outside and throw rocks for the rest of the time humanity is on this earth, and throw rocks for the rest of the time humanity is on this earth. Take that document, study it, live by it, work your behind off, take your chances, and you'll do okay.
The thing is, I find it hard to identify with a culture, my fault, can't help it, that deny's little girls an education. I just cant get with, executing women, in a public place, a soccer field, because she cheated on her husband, or walked outside her home without a male escort, or let her veil slip and expose her face. I can't see a father murdering his daughter to save the family honor. Or a brother who murders his sister for the same reason. I find it hard to understand a culture that says, believe as I do, or I will cut your head off, infedel. My folks did some pretty rough stuff, in our war against the occupation, but for the most part, we learned the practice from the Spanish, the French, yeah the French liked to give us small pox infested blankets to kills us off for our land. And the British used to pay for scalps, to prove one of them savages was actually dead.
The difference is, in this country, you can believe as you will, worship as you will, treat your women, your children, each other as you will, in freedom, as long as you don't go chopping somebody's head off. And, in this country, if you decide you don't want to beleive any longer, you can walk away without the religious police tracing you down, and chopping your head off. That's the beauity of freedom of faith. You can believe, or choose not to believe, and do okay.
Believe me, Glennb, if anyone has, I and my ancestors have a pretty good case to live our life in hate, but you see, as long as we live in the past, accuse the present for crimes committed four, five, six, even seven generations ago, we will forever be locked into the past, and destined for failure. The American Blacks are a prime example. Not all, but a majority continue to blame the white man for all their troubles, and, they continue to lag behind, and will continue to lag behind until they get with the program, work hard, take care of their families, and take part. I don't want anyone to fail, I don't want that for you, me, blacks, yellows, browns, or whites. The document, the Constitution is our blanket of protection, it gurantees our freedom, our freedom to pursue the American dream, and it still exists, if you're willing to work for it.
posted by
twodog
on June 23, 2005 at 7:53 PM
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Twodog,
You often state that you are Indian, Native American correct? Your trauma in America is probably as deep as any other Race on the Planet! I would never suggest that there is any way I could understand. But, I will not in this Millennium, in this Civilized, Information driven society embrace the invasion and occupation of a foreign nation as the only alternative to settle grievances! I do not care about the "Great White Hope"!
God Speed!
posted by
Glennb
on June 23, 2005 at 7:24 PM
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Twodog,
Strange thing, we all heard him and looked to him for leadership! Damn, everybody thought he was talking about "Osama bin Laden and his terrorist network" (read George Tenet's testamony before Congress, Feb, 2001)! Iraq was a convenient diversion! No!!
I am responding to this because you are clueless!
posted by
Glennb
on June 23, 2005 at 7:13 PM
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Glennb, You Rogue
First off, a minority can't be racist, the NAACP says so. And second, history, my man, is my passion. I absorb the stuff like a sponge, and, when I ain't sure about somthing, I just go on line and check out the facts, or, pull a book or two out of my library and read a while. Pretty weak shot there, blood. You might want to take a couple steps on down this way, and try again.
posted by
twodog
on June 23, 2005 at 7:12 PM
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Hey, brabinder
I reckon you missed Bush the Second's speech before the Joint Session of Congress a few days after that pesky attack on the Twin Towers. He stood right there, and said, the was war against terror was going to be long and difficult, that there would be victories the people would know about, and victories they wouldn't know about. Ol' George said a country that harbored terrorists, supported terrorists, promoted terrorist activity, would pay the price, sooner or later. Yep, I heard him say it, I sure did. And just for a hoot, why don't you study up on terrorism, terrorists, and terrorist doctrine. And, you might want to check into what the terrorists have been saying they want to do to all western style countries for the last oh, I don't know, thirty-five, forty yeas. It might be right interesting.
posted by
twodog
on June 23, 2005 at 7:07 PM
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Twodog,
A lot of words to say nothing! Why should I indulge your ignorance? There is no truth in anything you wrote! Why should I give it th ecourtesy of a reply? You are too clueless of history for me to even consider wasting further words! I would normally take the time to make a visit! But your writing is based too much on hearsay and racist innuendo. Sad??
posted by
Glennb
on June 23, 2005 at 7:03 PM
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Glennb You Scalawag You
Unlawful invasion? What about the continued violation of the no fire zone after the cease fire, from cesation of hostilities, to the resumption of hostilities? Remember the cease fire was contingent on Saddam following the accords of the cease fire. He did not.
What about the "Arabs" killing innocent Iraqi childrenl, women, and men, twenty two children today. Or, are you a tennant of, Killing innocent women and children is permitted by the Koran in order to conduct the Holy War?
Bombs? When was the last coalition unprovoked airstrike by coalition forces?
What about the shots fired at innocent citizens of a New Iraq, with a freely elected government, you do remember the election, don't you?
Israel territory was arranged by the British, that's true, however, the reason Israel was allowed to go home was, the world sat on their hands while a mad man murdered five million of them. They were allowed to go home to sooth the consceuence of the Allies.
And finally, what about the terrorist campaign currently being waged against the Iraqi people by terrorists from Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Lybia. Wouldn't that be considered invading a soverign nation? Or, is that okay because uh ... say, Glennb, you know a bunch of stuff about a bunch of stuff, why is that okay? Why aren't you all upset about that, humm?
You know something blood, I do believe I've just about got you pegged, I really do. And, you keep giving yourself away, you know, providing those small bits of information, taken together, will present a picture of, well, good old Glennb. Oh, by the way, I'm still out here, in the street, waiting to see who can pull leather the fastest.
posted by
twodog
on June 23, 2005 at 6:52 PM
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glennb, good post today!
posted by
kingmi
on June 23, 2005 at 3:34 PM
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Brabander,
You are trying to drag me down a hole I wanted to avoid in this post. The rise of Zionism had it's roots in the rise of Nazism. Adolph Eichmann was responsible for "solving" the Jewish Problem in Germany! History deals with the role the British and Americans played in the "founding" of Israel! Not me here!
George Bush is either too drunk or ignorance is his only ally!
posted by
Glennb
on June 23, 2005 at 3:27 PM
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posted by
Glennb
on June 23, 2005 at 3:20 PM
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Israel was created by the British in the Balfour Declaration. Typically for the British to give away land that they first occupied themselves.
Approximately one million of Palestinians were chased away by the Israelians. The refusal of Israel to let them return is one of the huge issues that has to be dealt with if there is ever going to be peace in the Middle East.
Bush made a big mistake thinking that the war in Iraq would only be a question of a few weeks, some months maybe. The Germans thought the same thing when they invaded our country and France in 1914.
Dirk
posted by
brabander
on June 23, 2005 at 10:29 AM
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Wordwizard,
I am not falling for that "Chicken or Egg" trap! For some reason everyone want to ignore what created the "State" of Israel! Let us stay with Iraq for now! Who cares that people voted for Bush! It did not make him ruler of the Planet! So America for Americans and the reat of the Planet for the rest of the Planet!
posted by
Glennb
on June 23, 2005 at 7:00 AM
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Israel is not 'occupying' Palestine.
There was no Palestine until it was created - well after Israel came into being. The land that Israel occupies was a desert when the Jews made their way there after the aftermath of the Holocaust. There were a handful of Arabs living there and they were NOT Palestinians. More to the point, virtually all of those living in 'Palestine' today, are the refugees or the descendents of refugees of other Arab countries. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf1.html While you may be in serious disagreement with the war with Iraq and with the fact that Bush is president, it is the majority of the American people that put him there. And yes, there might have been a couple of votes that were not fair, but the number of people voting for Bush was still great enough for it only to need a few votes to get the majority. When the masses in this country begin to travel, to gain another point of reference, a better understanding of things might arrive, and the people might choose better presidents.
posted by
Wordwizard
on June 23, 2005 at 6:44 AM
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crime does not need a motive
thats a new one.
posted by
calmcantey75
on June 23, 2005 at 5:31 AM
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