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posted by
Metta
on April 15, 2005 at 11:05 AM
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Okay Kooka, though I do agree with you about the fact that many people have no idea what they believe and they're just following the crowd, there are also many of us who will die for our faith... and are... literally and at the pens and mouths of people like you. I'll never trust your spiritual judgments... but you do write profound shorties... seriously, that type of stuff is really "hot" at the moment... those deceptively "stupid" stories... I'll never agree with you here in this category, but I do respect your "Bob's"... Though it was only one Bob...
posted by
cmoe
on April 15, 2005 at 9:44 AM
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two separate comments
do you know Langston Hughes's essay "Salvation"? An interesting piece in this context.
secondly: of course conspiracy theorists are big on this tack too-- what do some of them do when confronted by someone who contradicts their evidence? They say, "you're in on the conspiracy too!"
posted by
tbgroucho
on April 14, 2005 at 2:53 PM
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those who practiced human sacrifice
had not clothes
Abraham pointed it out to them
human sacrifice is not mainstream religion now
slaves in Egypt had no clothes
Moses pointed it out to them
they no more are slaves
1st Century Judaism had no clothes
Yeshua pointed it out to them.
they did not clothe themselves
then Christianity did not understand
and became naked.
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 14, 2005 at 2:29 PM
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I am a Christian who loves those who do not believe what I believe. I do not wish to convert anyone simply because I do not posses the power to do such a thing. Even if I did posses it, I would not convert them against their will.
God is real, and Love is the channel that God appears to human beings. If Christians are not practicing love they will be naked, and all people will see is their seemingly illogical and arrogant statements and not the God they profess and preach. Love is the key to knowledge and revelation of God.
posted by
calmcantey75
on April 14, 2005 at 2:02 PM
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Pappy
Some of us are just not into sports at all and really have no desire to ever be. We do not need to be part of the crowd. We find our favorites somehow. It is whatever fits us best and whatever has the most draw for us. Through that logic we can see that there is little point to debating which religious belief is the correct one, but instead must look at it as which beliefs fit the person following them best.
I was not trying to say that religious beliefs should be looked as being the nonexistence clothes. Just that there are those out there who will try to sell the idea of a perfect religion when all the have are empty words and an outfit that is not really there. If a person has to degrade someone's beliefs in order to trick them into changing their belies, then they are a con man selling invisible clothes.
It matters not what the intended moral of the story was, but what lessons can be learned from trying to take the story and look at just how it can reflect multiple ideas of our world. So far the analogy is fitting perfect and holding up well. I had always understood that no one wanted to admit to not seeing the clothes because they did not want to come off as looking stupid. The con men were playing more on ego than vanity.
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 14, 2005 at 10:08 AM
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Kooka
I've never heard that story interpreted that way, though I understand what you mean. I agree that we should not come to our beliefs based only on what those around us are saying. We all are responsible for our own truth. But it is human nature to enjoy the opinion of crowds. Is one sports team fundamentally different than another? Yet most people have favorites, and in fact put more effort in following the games than they do their own spiritual development.
The way I learned the story was that the emperor was conned by the guys selling invisible suits because of his vanity. Vanity can make fools of us all. The people went along with it out of fear. Fear of the emperor and his guards as well as fear of voicing an unpopular opinion. The boy was the hero because he was not afraid to speak the truth. Kooka, you play the role of the boy, and you do it well. You speak your 'truth' in the face of the majority who claim to believe in a god they cannot see. But I can also claim that role.
I think most 'Christian' people wear their invisible piety like a vaccination. A mild form of religion which makes them immune to the real thing. But I am not selling clothes. I'm trying to point out the naked truth, that is, that nakedness itself is the condition we are in. The clothes we wear are for effect, for covering the truth from each other and providing us with the illusion that we can 'get away' with pulling the wool over other people's eyes whenever we want. All I'm saying is that everyone is naked and that nothing is lost or forgotten, but is forgiven if we choose to be forgiving.
posted by
pappy
on April 14, 2005 at 9:02 AM
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Ody
Nudity in itself is a concept
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 14, 2005 at 8:46 AM
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Kooka
Naked of concepts, we lack direction.
posted by
telemachus
on April 14, 2005 at 8:06 AM
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Ody
Thank You
I would like to point out though that some people just like to be naked. They find that all clothes are uncomfortable and just are not abel to wear any if they have a choice. If they aver do wear clothes it is to be polite and not draw attention to themselves due to society demanding that everyone wear clothes. If it is what is right for them and it hurts no one then why can't they run around naked?
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 14, 2005 at 7:24 AM
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Kooka, this was keen thinking
to employ this storyline. I think this really marvelous story also exemplifies the fact that people should not run around naked (even if they are a powerful Emperor), especially when they indeed have valid clothes within which to instill themselves.
posted by
telemachus
on April 13, 2005 at 8:03 PM
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Ody
Actually the idea leans more to the simple fact that everyone has clothes themselves. Most people wear clothes that fit them and are comfortable for them, but may not be comfortable for others. it is this idea of a the perfect set of clothes that many seem to be searching for, btu is not really there. There are those who will then use this search for a perfect set of clothes to get other to wear nothing, but claim they ahd the perfect set of clothes. Then these people go running around wearing nothing telling all those who are wearing clothes teat fit well and are comfortable , that they are wrong to find their clothes comfortable and should instead run around naked pretending that they have on this fictional set of perfect clothes.
So I will agree, the analogy really does work well.
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 13, 2005 at 7:09 PM
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"Hey Emperor! I can see your dingle-dangle!"
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
posted by
roofpig
on April 13, 2005 at 5:24 PM
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This is a good analogy.
You should certainly never pretend to believe. But the absence of clothes on the Emperor does not mean that clothes do not exist in the universe, only that the Emperor is not wearing any. Simply because the fundamentalism you reject is insufficient does not mean that God should be rejected altogether.
posted by
telemachus
on April 13, 2005 at 3:58 PM
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