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thanks kid
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 12, 2005 at 3:13 PM
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of course business don't need regulation, writerofdarkness
they should be allowed to pollute our air and water, pay no taxes at all, make their workers work 12 hours a day for subsistence pay, have no safety procedures in place for their workers and no medical benefits and not be responsible for the safety and well being of their workers.
businesses weren't regulated at one time -- before the 20th Century -- the facillities they owned were called sweatshops and their workers lived in tenements where you could a dozen people lilving in a four room unit without running water or indoor facilities or adequate heat (no air conditioning) -- and how do you think sweatshops got their name? (think summer).
American business is the most sinful entity in the world, doing the greatest harm in the most areas -- without regulation, we would return to the 19th Century.
if you want that, that's fine -- I don't./
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 12, 2005 at 3:12 PM
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writer of darkness
writer of darkness
"I can not figure out why so many wish to defend Big Business that are very clearly out for themselves and are willing to destroy the US economy for pure profit", Kooka says
and you reply, "This statement is utter nonsense."
And I say, no it's not -- it is a statement of fact. Let's list a few things businesses have done that demonstrate how true this statement is.
rob worker pension funds to pay off junk bonds
cut back on health benefits
left wages pitifully below the rate of inflation
opened factories in the Far East, where they only need to pay people about 25 cents a day to put out dozens of $100 + jeans, with little health care and poor and unsafe working conditions, and doors barred so people can't get out and some are killed in fires -- just like the sweatshops of the turn of the Century.
closed factories in many area of the U.S. -- first moving away from the cities, where people want a living wage, to rural America where people are grateful for substantially less to relocate in Mexico (NAFTA) where they don't have to worry about air or water pollution regulations or worker safety and have local gestapo-type police to help them in the event of worker dissatisfaction -- and finally to Indonesia and Srui Lanka and Bangla Desh and Thailand, where they have to account for even less.
you pay a worker 25 cents a day to make dozens of pairs of jeans for $100 or more apiece and I wonder . . . what kind of a profit is being made?
and of course, they are poor citizens of this country -- they avoid paying taxes through various loopholes because their factories are beyond our borders.
you want me to go on?
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 12, 2005 at 3:03 PM
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okay business promoters
how can business sell their product when there is no one to buy it?
if workers have just enough money to get by, then they will not be able to spend it on anything other than the necessities.
the only reason this economy is avoiding collapse is free credit where people can get other than necessities by charging for it -- spending money they don't have
charge card companies freed credit in order to keep the economy afloat
now they are in the forefront of changing bankruptcy laws so all these people that charged too much will have to pay somehow -- but how? the reason they charged was that they didn't have the money,
better wages equal greater spending and more profit rather than less.
ask Henry Ford, who doubled the wage for his factory workers -- he said "They'll now have money to buy my product."
Such consumerism was behind the boom of the 50's, the like of which we'll never see again -- when wages and benefits increased dramatically. Now -- they're rolling them back. There's less going around the economy.
What do you think will come of this?
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 12, 2005 at 2:48 PM
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Villager
I have no clue what the left wing says about it all. I am going off of what I have personally seen myself. Basically what I am saying here is the cold hard facts from someone right there in the middle class where it all happens, seeing very clearly just what is needed.
DO you think that CEO's and other big wigs are entitled to bonuses when they are not providing for their employees?
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 9, 2005 at 5:04 PM
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WHEN YOU'VE HAD THE EXPERIENCE OF CREATING A SMALL OR LARGE BUSINESS
AND CONQUERING THE UNAVOIDABLE POT HOLES ALONG THE WAY. AND WHEN THIS BUSINESS PROVIDES JOBS FOR OTHERS - THAT IS THE TIME WHEN YOU CAN MAKE AN OBJECTIVE, RELEVANT, MEANINGFUL COMMENT ON BUSINESS.
UNTIL THAT TIME, IT IS BEST TO KEEP AN OPEN AND FAIR MIND, WITHOUT THE BURDEN OF LEFT-WING DISTORTIONS.
posted by
reasons
on April 9, 2005 at 4:05 PM
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WOL
First off our economy is doing well not because of Big Business, but because of the government getting involved and adjusting the interest rate to avoid the problems the rest of the world just went through. All economist have been holding their breath as we barely keep out of the danger zone. Interest rates are so low and have been staying that low because the economy is in trouble.
You also seem to very much misunderstand the idea I presented, most likely because you belie that Big Business is not the greedy monster it is.
What were we told was the reason behind the tax cuts for Big Business? So that they would have more money to trickle down to their employees in order to help get the economy going strong. Well, as a working stiff and knowing working stiffs, I happen to be very much aware that employees are not seeing that money at all. The Big Wigs are keeping it all for themselves basically and NOT helping the economy of the US out at all. They are still cutting back nod not giving out raises and doing all they can to hurt the economy all the more. I am saying make it very clear that those companies who help the economy by using the tax breaks in the manner they were meant to be used they will be rewarded with the tax breaks, while those who keep on ten patterns that are causing our economy problems will no get rewarded. Basically make it so that the companies will gain the most be doing what it is that the tax breaks were meant to do. Yes, we have to start treating Big Buisness like children because that is how they act. They are not about to be responsible for the messes they are causing, but instead just want it all and will cry when they do not get their way. It is pure greed and irresponsibility that Big Business is following right now and they do not care if they bring the whole country down around them. It is no the government telling them what they have to do, but rewarding them for helping to build up a stronger America for the future well being of all.
I have news for you, if the American economy does collapse, Big Business will just move on. They truly are not patriotic, no matter what claims they may make. To them a country is just a place that they can use and abuse as needed.
I have to ask this, what do you do for a living? Your comments cna not help but make me wonder if you have ever worked a real day of work in your life and seen just how hard it is getting for the average family to get by when they have no hope of their pay getting raised anything close to how fast inflation is going up right now. I know of no one who is doing good because their places of work do not wish to pay anything close to a fair pay. The simple truth is that the economy is not going to do well just because we have a bunch of rich people getting richer, which is what is happening right now. Instead we will be doing best when the middle class is not having to suffer in order to get by and afford to live and have a family. In fact eth only true use of the upper class is to be there to create the companies to keep the middle class going strong. When the upper class stops keeping the middle class going strong, then we see the collapse of the economy. The middle class truly is the key class to any economic system,
You might wish to go and study history and see just what caused the Great Depression. It was not the middle class getting paid fairly, but the upper class hoarding money. We are headed there again.
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 9, 2005 at 3:16 PM
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This will make you sad!
"I can not figure out why so many wish to defend Big Business that are very clearly out for themselves and are willing to destroy the US economy for pure profit"
This statement is utter nonsense. The US is the undisputed number one economy in the world. As such, business, be it big or small, stands to gain the most from a healthy US economy, because a healthy US economy gives business the best opportunity for profits. If your reasoning was valid, every big business should have boomed in the Great Depression, which was as close as we've seen to the US economy being destroyed.
As far as your proposal that businesses be required to increase wages befoe they qualify for tax breaks goes, I take it you are just as comfortable with the government telling you in turn how you must spend your money as well? Or are you one of those lovely people who want government regulating everything and everyone but yourself to death?
Trust me - if government clamps down on businesses here as you propose, your claims will become a self-fulfilling prophecy because any business that is able to will leave the country rather than put up with more regulatory crap.I saw it happen when I lived in California, and now it's the same here in Ohio. Business owners have every right to relocate if local or national government becomes hostile to their companies. or would you rather have them eliminate jobs, cut wages and benefits or just plain go out of business when they can't bear the cost of overregulation, so you can blame them for being mean, greedy and all that rot?
posted by
WriterofLight
on April 8, 2005 at 8:03 PM
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I'm 23, why?
posted by
roofpig
on April 8, 2005 at 9:57 AM
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Hey, Roofpig!
how old are you?
posted by
RedStatesMan
on April 8, 2005 at 9:43 AM
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I can see it even in the company I'm working for. When I started working here over a year ago, it was still a young company and a very close-knit "family." Now we've got bigwigs running the show from NYC, and is it a coincidence I haven't received the raise I was supposed to get about 7 months ago? They brag about how great our company is doing and how much money we've been making, yet no one has received the raises they were promised.
I'm glad I'm leaving in 3 months.
posted by
roofpig
on April 8, 2005 at 7:28 AM
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