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RedStatesMan
Actually there are those who believe in God who hold strongly to the ideas I talked about here. I am just taking a look at them and showing where such ideas would come from and logic behind them. I am looking at the possibilities. You stated 'I have never in my life read a more ridiculous blog!' yet not once did you defend why it was ridiculous. Just because it does not agree with your views does not make it ridiculous. Where in the Bible does it say that what I stated here is wrong? Are you saying that God does not have control over if we live or die? Are you saying that God really is powerless as to our final fate?
Oh course in the past you have already proven yourself to be blind to anything but your own personal views and beyond unable to accept anything that disagrees with you. You are still as blind as you have been.
I will never understand why so many believers fear logic and reason so much.
posted by
kooka_lives
on March 12, 2005 at 3:39 PM
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Empty handed painter...
let's simplify it. I hope you are right. I can only hope that I have spent my entire life believing in GOD and the Bible only to find myself laying in a coffin without any afterlife. No heaven, no hell just laying there rotting. Then what have I lost, nothing. However, I know that is not the case. I would dread my judgement day when I would have to explain to GOD why I think he is just an false idol. You are quite a gambler. I'll give you that.
posted by
RedStatesMan
on March 12, 2005 at 10:07 AM
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malekai
parallels my comments pretty well
again I say the constructed god is a fragile idol --
the god i see is the moment we all live in -- that's all there is.
YHVH -- Existence -- and the only thing that actually exists (although some think otherwise) is this very moment.
This is the most sacred thing in our lives -- we should act like it is.
posted by
Xeno-x
on March 12, 2005 at 7:52 AM
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My 2 cents
The world is governed by the laws of nature. Nature has no recognition of man's individual plight on Earth. Nature doesn't care wether we are good/bad. It sustains us, yet is not a sentiance that recognizes the plight of the individual. The individual must adapt to nature as we are apart of nature. Adapt as individuals and as a society to nature's course. God gave us free will and we must make our own way within this Earth. It is how we interact within nature that God may be concerned with.
posted by
malekai
on March 12, 2005 at 2:33 AM
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Kooky's Logic
Your "logic" has completely consumed you. I have never in my life read a more ridiculous blog! Are you like Spock's offspring? Oh that's right, I know who your daddy is. Nevermind. If you go through life trying to explain everything with logic then when you come upon something that is not logical you will self destruct. Get a grip, man! Do you light up a doobie before you write this garbage?
posted by
RedStatesMan
on March 11, 2005 at 7:47 PM
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So empty_handed_painter to expand on my last comment
now that I have more time to do so. The comment you made that I referred to earlier is book material, it is that poignant and well articulated. I do not say this in jest but in all sincerity, your writing style has improved dramatically since you first appeared on Blogit. That is an uplifting story in itself, But believing father connects with long lost athiest son by actually getting it wins parade ribbons where I come from. Then if that is not enough, a middle aged man improves his own writing skills in the process. I know a "win win" situation when I see one and I say good for both of you. Is it little wonder that I check into this comment section quite often? Upon many ocassions I see uplifting sanity and reasonable thinking here. Enough so that comments and blogs between the both of you could be organized into a book.
posted by
gomedome
on March 11, 2005 at 6:53 PM
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pappy
I rarely find the need to reply to you because of how you present yourself. You generally say 'this is the way I see it' and rarely make statements that imply everyone else is stupid for not seeing things as you do. Just look at drasticmeasures and Gheeghee to see those who are generally defending your side. They can make vague statements and give nothing to defend them, not even the simple statement of 'this is how I see it'. Painter was looking at their comments when he made his. neither one was able to defend a counter point to what I said. If you look at their statements you can often see that they give the impression that they are not even sure what they believe in. You on the other hand seem to have really good grip as to what you believe. You are one that does not fit into any generalization of those of faith.
posted by
kooka_lives
on March 11, 2005 at 12:33 PM
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pappy - I don't answer for Kooka, I answer for myself, and sometimes that entails with backing up another's argument. I do understand where you are coming from, though. It tends to go both ways, but sometimes neither can (or will) see it.
posted by
roofpig
on March 11, 2005 at 12:18 PM
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roofpig
I'm not sure why Kooka has so many people answering for him, but I understand that painter's God is neutral because he makes him that way. I was responding to the standing taunt that us 'godly' types never give answers to his arguments. I have found that when I do, the meat of my response is usually ignored and another 'belief in God is delusion' diatribe is launched. It's too much like Rush Limbaugh to suit me.
posted by
pappy
on March 11, 2005 at 12:09 PM
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pappy - I don't think painter is "blaming" God. Painter has pointed out before the belief that God is neutral. Bad things happen and God doesn't do anything about it, but good things happen and God doesn't have anything to do with those, either. They are all consequences of man's actions.
posted by
roofpig
on March 11, 2005 at 11:10 AM
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And painter,
"My god is and idol with feet of clay, why don't I admit it and go on to something better?" Is this some sort of evangelical streak I'm seeing here? Are you trying to convince me of something?
posted by
pappy
on March 11, 2005 at 11:08 AM
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No, painter
The answers are worthless to YOU because you put no value on them. You do value your free will but you blame the God you don't believe for what that freedom brings. God IS responsible for everything, the good and the bad. And how do we show our responsibility? By doing something about it. How does God? By providing relief, but He cannot MAKE us take it because we still have free will.
posted by
pappy
on March 11, 2005 at 10:57 AM
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Wow empty_handed_painter -- that comment deserves
an award or trophy or something. I couldn't agree more. Well said and very clearly articulated.
posted by
gomedome
on March 11, 2005 at 10:35 AM
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Kookster - don't worry, I know your posts are meant to get people to think. I wasn't implying that the post represented your actual feelings on the subject. I appreciate the opportunity to be presented with sides of things that I wouldn't have thought of on my own.
posted by
roofpig
on March 11, 2005 at 7:21 AM
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guys -- god is neutral
whatever god is.
that's the problem, trying to define god when all definitions fail.
the god that many religionists define is a god that's impossible to believe in.
such a god will be contradictory -- you say he's good and there's so much bad -- so you say it's not god's fault -- it's Satan's or it's original sin -- and then the question begs itself -- why does god allow, first, Satan to deceive man when god knew it would happen -- second, man to wreak such evil on this world -- the big question here of your god is why does god allow so much suffering? if it is the result of human sin -- and god does nothing about it -- then isn't god as responsible for the human suffering as the humans who enact such?
and then there are the natural things, disease, genetic disorders, etc. -- again your god falls short because he allows these things.
innocent people suffer at the hands of evil people because allows it -- and you wonder why some people are atheists.
your god is an idol with feet of clay -- admit it and find something more valid.
you try to answer for your god, but the answers are worthless because they do not address the entire conundrum.
when you see that god is in essence only what each of us experiences moment to moment, then you will be worshipping the true god and you will achieve a higher plane of existence and higher actualisation of your self.
posted by
Xeno-x
on March 11, 2005 at 7:10 AM
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Kooka, what are you up to now?
You have such a talent for stirring some people up! Here's my take on your line of thinking. Most people who believe in God DO credit Him with a kind of perfection, though not necessarily a perfection that we can understand or logically pursue. What I can't follow in your argument is how this relates to the world being perfect. Even if God IS perfect, it does not mean that He MUST create a world that SEEMS perfect to us. Of course, nowhere in the bible or in any religion that I know of is the world said to be perfect, at least from man's point of view. Quite the opposite. But that is not proof that a perfect God does not exist. It might be argued that biology is perfect, in that it has led to a balanced ecosystem that has sustained a large variety of life on this planet for millions of years. But biology is also brutal where life eats each other to survive. Only humans look for something better, but the perfection we seek is not in this biological world. It is only found in the theoretical world of ideas. The real question, in fact the only question that matters since we all die anyway, is this: can we actually live in the world of ideas that we create, or must we always be prisoners of the brutality of animal existence? My answer is that if I am strong enough, I can live in the world I believe; for others can certainly kill my body, but they can never take away my hope.
posted by
pappy
on March 10, 2005 at 4:33 PM
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God's will
God's will does not make sense if we believe it is different from our will. I was agnostic for some twelve years, up to about two years ago, when I broke through a spiritual barrier about God. it seems that we are each God in individual form, which means we have creative ability and free will. When we view ourselves as separate from God, we fear punishment. Why would an unconditionally loving being punish? I believe it is the individual who must raise his understanding if he wishes to be free psychologically. Just some thoughts to mull over. take care and good writing.
posted by
avant-garde
on March 10, 2005 at 2:48 PM
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Gheeghee
I am not in pain.
Your poem sounds much like a believer who has been caused great emotional pain because of his beliefs. Thanks to not believing in God I can work through my emotional pain easily and feel great about my life.
You really should read some of my other blogs to see just how much I enjoy life and how much is going on in my life to make it as positive as it is.
posted by
kooka_lives
on March 10, 2005 at 6:29 AM
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man-boy
We as a society have a really twisted idea as to what is important in life. We are more worried about quantify above quality. I would rather live life to the fullest and enjoy my life than live a long life trapped in a hospital bed. Loosing quality of life is the scariest thing to me and would is some ways destroy the enjoyment of life I had.
posted by
kooka_lives
on March 10, 2005 at 6:26 AM
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drasticmeasures
You just do not get it at all do you? You view of God is not the same view of God as everyone else. The idea of God I talked about here is and idea some believers follow. It is much closer to the Biblical idea of God than what you follow. I really do not believe this idea, but I wrote the post to get people to look at it and think about it.
posted by
kooka_lives
on March 10, 2005 at 6:16 AM
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roofpig
I don't completely agree with it either. It is just one way to look at things. You should know by now that I do write posts that are just to get people thinking and looking at the possibilities. It does not mean I agree with what is said. The thing is there is a certain level of logic to it if you are following the Biblical idea of God. Once more though, most believers no matter what they claim, really are not following the Biblical idea of god but instead have created they own personal idea of God and are following that.
I see nothing wrong with doctors and what they do. There are some believers who do however and who more or less see things as I have stated them in the post. God will heal those who he chooses to heal and let die those who he choose to take, mortal doctors can only fight against God's will. So they have nothing to do with doctors. It is just an example of problems caused by misguided faith.
posted by
kooka_lives
on March 10, 2005 at 6:13 AM
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I won't necessarily agree with you on this, but I won't disagree completely, either. I think to an extent doctors tamper where they shouldn't, but trying to save a life is a noble deed. Until, of couse, by trying to save said life the person is a vegetable on life support for years and years. I think that's a pretty clear sign that God is holding onto that person and saying, "Let's see who has a stronger grip."
posted by
roofpig
on March 10, 2005 at 5:50 AM
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it's their god and they can cry if they want to
they have a certain impression of god and if that impression were true then what you say is perfectly logical
they say god made a perfect world; then we shouldn't have disease
they say god's creation is perfect; then they should accept it and not attempt to "correct" it.
if they truly believe in their god, then they should accept pain and suffering and accept that disease is part of god's creation and death also and love the god that sends them such and not attempt to have their disease cured or their deaths averted.
posted by
Xeno-x
on March 10, 2005 at 5:47 AM
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you got em didn't you kid
good post
none of the "Christian" types answered you did they?
It's their god and they can't defend it.
posted by
Xeno-x
on March 10, 2005 at 5:40 AM
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you are completly wrong and lost in atheist land
you know nothing of God and you truly believe you can reduce him with human logic, how insane.
posted by
drasticmeasures
on March 9, 2005 at 10:51 PM
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Kooka! Good post.
I beleive we should practise practical medicine. If I don't want treatment for life threatening illnesses beyond palliative care, I am thought odd. Not that it bothers me personally, but I think it wouldn;t hurt if those who want to let their bodies bow out when they choose.
Well, you know what? Life has few fucking mysteries left. I'm not checking out of here anytime soon, but really...!!
This fear of ceath in our culture repulses(repels?) me.
The vastness of wealth spent in a few weeks of heroic effort at lifes end.
Screw that. The medical industry are ghoulish in their refusal to let a body die.
Manboy
posted by
man-boy
on March 9, 2005 at 6:29 PM
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"Emotions are too much for me to bear,
I don’t want to think about it or care
I’d rather have all the physical pain I can carry,
With all this emotional pain it’s just so scary."
The words of a man that loves someone he can't have.
Learn from your pain.
posted by
Gheeghee
on March 9, 2005 at 4:20 PM
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