Go to Religion in the Modern World
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- Go to The old chestnut of showing respect.
And I didn't ask how the author of the website defined religion, I asked YOU how YOU define religion. You want to put this up here, you want to slap people with all kinds of questions. Don't you think it's polite to reciprocate, especially since you brought the issue up?
posted by
Gheeghee
on February 20, 2005 at 12:26 AM
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Wasn't this question asked within your comment:
Who or what criteria determines the legitimacy of any religion?
posted by
Gheeghee
on February 20, 2005 at 12:24 AM
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gomedome: funny, I thought this was your point:
"It is assumed by many within this faith system that a certain amount of respect is due simply by the fact that it is a commonly accepted faith system. The unfortunate part of this is that inherent within it's own dogma and even it's policy is a complete lack of respect for other faith systems, lifestyles and even points of biblical interpretation."
posted by
Gheeghee
on February 20, 2005 at 12:19 AM
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Gheeghee -- to stick to the point, the person who authored the website
seems to define it as any established congregation of worshippers.
posted by
gomedome
on February 18, 2005 at 9:17 AM
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"Who or what criteria determines the legitimacy of any religion? " That all depends, gomedome, how do you define religion?
posted by
Gheeghee
on February 18, 2005 at 8:18 AM
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Thank You.
posted by
Justi
on February 17, 2005 at 8:51 PM
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Experience - I appreciate what you are trying to articulate
but your analogy is merely conclusion by associative knowledge. I know there are nails inside the wall even though they are covered by wallboard. I do however catch your drift.
posted by
gomedome
on February 17, 2005 at 8:33 PM
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No pappy -- there is no hook
It is simple really. There are people in this world that want to have others live their lives by what they themselves hold as beliefs. As if respect for individual rights and beliefs is a one way street. You are okay as long as you do not step outside my belief system. It wouldn't be a problem at all if people really understood the words they pay lip service to such as "freedom of religion" and "all men are created equal."
I am truly happy for you if you have found something that works for you, regardless of your refusal to believe this, I have as well. I don't need or want your God but saying this is not enough. Some will never be satisfied with this. To them I am deficient and worthy of disdain, they feel they must try to make the same point over and over again to me about how wonderful their beliefs are. As if growing up in North America I have never been exposed to it and as if it is their business what I believe. It is the assumption that a person who does not share one's belief is somehow inferior that is the cancer.
posted by
gomedome
on February 17, 2005 at 8:29 PM
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Faith is not only what you see but what you don't
The stars in heaven we see at a distance. We know that they are there. But is their life or creation on the stars. Can you see the Life. No. But we have faith to believe that thwere is life there. Someday we will see it. Same as the world we can see some life here and the purpose. But do we see the whole purpose of why we are here. No. But someday we will see the whole purpose why we are here. Faith in the known but unknown.
posted by
Experience
on February 17, 2005 at 7:53 PM
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gomedome, I guess it was the barb about removing the cancer
that got me going. Which reality would you have others partake? A lifetime of pain and death with no meaning? Enduring hardship at the hands of overbearing powers with no hope of real justice? Ignoring two millennia of revelations by thinkers deeper than us? What's the hook? That you get to be in charge?
posted by
pappy
on February 17, 2005 at 7:46 PM
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pappy -- what are you smoking buddy? ..and where can I get some?
Dropping little barbs is not engaging in dialogue. You want a rebuttal to your statement that "non-believers are wasting their time and mine" How about: "Belief in an invisible and manufactured God entails a lifetime of wishful thinking and denying reality" I do however envy believers, simply because deluded bliss, is bliss nonetheless.
posted by
gomedome
on February 17, 2005 at 7:33 PM
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Justsouno --there is a lot more to that story
If you can possibly imagine and I know this is tough to envision but said blogger was a lot worse when they first arrived here. The comments section was never used at first, only emails. It became apparent in short order that there were mental health issues. Subsequently I moved this person from the "disdain and rebuttal" file to the "pity" file, compassion may be a better word. When someone is trying to play solitaire with a 51 card deck that is all that can be offered. The lies, attacks, unusually foul language and pontification from a position of righteousness are not representative of any credible belief system. An observer to these antics soon realizes that the individual is only speaking from their own twisted and distorted perspective.
posted by
gomedome
on February 17, 2005 at 7:27 PM
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Be happy, at least you got so many clicks you can't count 'em.
posted by
Justi
on February 17, 2005 at 7:26 PM
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So, gomedome
It is to be dismissive instead of engaging? You go on about no one providing any argument against your conclusions, yet you recoil from that discussion?
posted by
pappy
on February 17, 2005 at 7:21 PM
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pappy -- I don't know what your problem is.
and good for you if you have found something that works for you.
posted by
gomedome
on February 17, 2005 at 7:12 PM
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The worst and most hurtful material I have ever seen on this blog was from
| that blogger. I contacted them in person forgave them for the ugliness and gave them the rules against the behavior exhibited. I do believe that person has repented of that behavior and is like many non believers too, they are so full of anger. I am sorry that happened to you by one wearing that label. I believe that person is trying to get it right in her own manner. The secret is to let God get her kinks out and give him the anger and pain she is carrying. It is dangerous to the progress of any religion for hate/anger to be a part of it. Just as I believe those being taught to become suicide bombers is against humane loving progressive religion of any sort. To me faith in those things unseen equates to love. An example of pure simplicity is 'looking at a glass of water and calling it ice only takes the faith that put into the freezer it is ice.' Silly and simple but anyone can be gentle, nice and loving to anyone if they choose. Do you agree? |
| |
posted by
Justi
on February 17, 2005 at 7:03 PM
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You ask what I mean, gomedome
Then call me rude for doing it? You seem to be the one guilty of the things you accuse Christians of being. We are supposed to be learning from each other, but to do that one must be able to see through another's eyes. I have seen all your doubts and have simply decided to put them aside because I could. You say religion puts no power in your life, and I believe you, but you don't even try to understand the power it puts into mine.
posted by
pappy
on February 17, 2005 at 6:51 PM
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Now pappy -- why would you leave a comment such as this on my blog?
"Non believers are wasting their own time and mine." ...this is just rude. No one is making any time demands of you as you stop bye this posting of your own accord. I do however appreciate your concern for how I spend my own time.
posted by
gomedome
on February 17, 2005 at 6:42 PM
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Justsouno -- do you want a laugh?
You said this in a comment yesterday in response to a rude comment that I showed you from a so called Christian. (I agree 100% bye the way) "That is exactly what I mean. The person who said that to you was not speaking Christian. Just because one wears the lable it does not mean the can is filled with that product."
The person that made the original rude comment certainly thinks that they are a true Christian...even prefaced their name with the word Pastor........you know who I am talking about and you are probably laughing by now.
posted by
gomedome
on February 17, 2005 at 6:30 PM
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I forgot about Siddhartha
I think he may have found the door all by himself, but I don't know for sure. Non believers are wasting their own time and mine. Faith is not supposed to be the end of the journey, it is the beginning. It's as if we woke up at our birth and found ourselves alone in the cockpit of a huge airplane with the engines running. Through trial and error we might figure out how to taxi the thing around, but only the faithful realize we were designed to fly.
posted by
pappy
on February 17, 2005 at 6:20 PM
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Gheeghee -- I took a look at the site you dropped a link for
The author seems to be putting forth as a theory that anyone adhering to a legitimate or recognized belief system is viewed as a faithful servant of the Lord regardless of what denomination they are from. It is almost comical in that it unravels when one simple question is posed. Who or what criteria determines the legitimacy of any religion? Ultimately though, does it really matter? Reconciling the disparities of the multitudes of differing belief systems on this planet is an ideal that is a worthy cause. It is definately a situation where the "if" outweighs the "how".
posted by
gomedome
on February 17, 2005 at 6:10 PM
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Thank you so much for a dialogue with me, gomedome,
we are getting closer to understanding one another, but I contend we are not there. I am not demanding, or condemning non believers for anything. I have no right to do that for anyone. I am saying, very clearly I hope, that if a person chooses the Christian faith it is like any other that it has rules. I expect that they should choose those rules, if they don't I shall make no move to impose the rules on them. If they are Christian, according to what I understand they do not have to go to any priest, preacher or anyone to have a personal relation with God. God has my life mapped out with clear directions for me to have blessings here not waiting for them in heaven instead of curses. I learned this after trying religion after religion, philosophy, new age and trauma after trauma. It works for me. It may not for you. My point is you can be anything you want and I have no right to be caustic about it, I apologize for being ugly in my post to you, BTW you were not the one who told me I was brain damaged, he also said Christians and Republicans should not be allowed to breed. Since I gave birth to three children and two were killed at different times I wanted to twist his head off, I soon got over it and forgave him, it was hard to do.
posted by
Justi
on February 17, 2005 at 6:08 PM
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Okay pappy -- though I know I am going to regret it
I have to ask you to expand on this statement: "Non believers are simply a waste"
posted by
gomedome
on February 17, 2005 at 5:54 PM
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Justsouno -- I can't speak for Kooka but yes I not only "get it",
what you are describing as a subtle distinction is exactly the cancer that I speak of. You have a problem with any Christian deciding to follow Islam, Buddhism, becoming a non believer or marrying a same sex partner. All (except the latter in some jurisdictions) are pefectly legal and benign endeavours, that on their surface, instill no societal disruption. Nor do these actions cause any form of inconvenience or cost to others, yet you have a problem with a Christian deciding to do these things. Is that because you do not understand the definition of the word respect, as in respecting the choices of others or is it that you speak for all Christians and would like to control all of their actions? This last statement may seem a little harsh, but consider this: if you were articulating your lack of approval for any number of personal decisions by others outside of the context of religion and faith you probably could not find justification to do such a thing. In a religious context however you feel perfectly justified to speak your mind. Call it spreading the word or serving the Lord or whatever, no matter how you paint it or try to homogenize this practice it is still imposing your faith on others. Suggesting that they must live by your standards. That is a cancer, a malignancy of societal perception.
By the way, this came from the content of one of your blogs, not a "lead in" as you suggest: "The Christians are ignorant and brain damaged to this blogger." Though you did not mention my user name you did mention my blog title so there is no doubt as to whom you are referencing here. Quotations, are fair game in public domain, in terms of rebuttal, as long as the underlying message remains intact and is not taken out of context. This however is not representative of anything that I have ever said nor any views that I hold.
posted by
gomedome
on February 17, 2005 at 5:52 PM
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I've read the Koran, gomedome
There is nothing in there that I have a problem with. Non believers are simply a waste. Marriage is a sacrament, not a cause for anger.
posted by
pappy
on February 17, 2005 at 5:03 PM
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gnomedome
Yes I have seen it. You may pass along to Kooka that I have. You did not say brain damaged, nor did I even infer you did. I used it as a lead-in. But what have you likened to cancer here? I don't know if you heard me yesterday (read) or not. I have no problem with your being anything you want including a gay marriage. I have a tremendous problem with any Christian doing any of these things. Do either you or Kooka get that?
posted by
Justi
on February 17, 2005 at 3:10 PM
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http://mb-soft.com/public/compat2.html describes a balanced approach to the topic you present here.
posted by
Gheeghee
on February 17, 2005 at 1:52 PM
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Great Point
But most likely those who need to see the point will not.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 17, 2005 at 1:01 PM
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