Go to The Reverend Kooka Speaks About Religious Bulls#!t
- Add a comment
- Go to DEFYING GOD'S LAWS
my reply to this is
here.
posted by
Gheeghee
on February 11, 2005 at 11:39 AM
| link to this | reply
Gheeghee
Okay, now you are either just trying to say whatever you can to try and discredit me or your are as about naive as they come. IT is well known that the Bible has gone through many, many translations and what is being read now days is nothing at all like the original text. I have seen more accurate translations of various parts of the Bible to show just how off this is. Stuff like Satan was never presented as being an single being in the early translations, but instead was a title given to whatever angel God was using to play the protagonist in a situation.
You totally go against your own points now. You were the one who started to point out the whole thing about how there are so many translations and such. Now you are trying to say that is not so? Do you really believe that there is an 100% accurate translation of the Bible out there? Sorry, but there is not.
If there are no true translations of the Bible out there, then no one can follow the true Bible. Most of the real documents that have been used over the years are not allowed to be seen by most people. I would say that those who have these documents have a lot they are hiding.
I have provided answers to your question because your questions are easy to answer. You are still dancing around the whole thing. At no point have you really addressed the ideas presented in the post. You are trying to say that all these other aspects need to be considered, if that is so then any and all of God's rules and laws are meaningless because you have to look at the time and translation and so on in order for them to be used. At that point you have taken away any reason for the rules to be handed out as directly as the ten commandments were. If God gives it as a direct rule then it should not matter what any of the underlining issue are, unless of course you are saying that God is imperfect and he's rules are only useful in certain situation and can be ignored at will. Unless of course you are saying to go and pick and choose the rules that you like because certain rules somehow are just of that time and translation.
You really seem to wish to disprove God's power more than I do by presenting these questions. Mostly it seems like you do not wish to listen, because I am answering your questions.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 10, 2005 at 8:56 PM
| link to this | reply
Tapsel-T
If that happens then it happens. I will let them do what they feel they have to with their lives. All matters of faith are personal things and should never be decided for a person.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 10, 2005 at 8:40 PM
| link to this | reply
empty: go check your blog...left you a real doozy.
;)
posted by
Gheeghee
on February 10, 2005 at 5:32 PM
| link to this | reply
gheeghee
why can't i get you to comment on my blogs like this?
posted by
Xeno-x
on February 10, 2005 at 2:54 PM
| link to this | reply
Considering that no one follows the original Bible…” How did you come to this conclusion? Have you translated the original Bible yourself? Exactly what IS the original Bible? Is it a book with binding somewhere? You must know, because you have presented this fact. “No one follows…” No one EVER? Where are the motives, thoughts and feelings of every human being recorded so that you so easily had them at your fingertips to know this fact? Do you have some magical ability to look into every human being’s mind to have ascertained your data supporting your claim?
"As for the commandment I used, it was the second commandment. It came after the first and before the third. It is impossible to have it taken out of context.” It’s very possible to take it out of context. How is this commandment understood in its historical perspective, within the entirety of both the book of the Bible from which it comes and the Bible itself? Toward what group was this commandment aimed? What made it relevant to them? Is there something about that commandment that is relevant today? How does this commandment relate to the rest of the books of the Bible?
“It was not part of some great elaborate explanation.” Yes it was taken from a great, elaborate explanation, called the Bible.
“You are dancing around what I presented here…” Actually, it’s your blog, your points, your posts. I'm asking you questions and you are not providing answers. Only you can prove your points, only you can explain your thoughts and ideas.
If you want to wear the hat of REVEREND, you better be prepared to answer all questions presented with AN ANSWER, not accusations or sarcasm. If I have questions, it's not because I'm "dancing," but because you've not done a complete enough job of presenting your argument.
posted by
Gheeghee
on February 10, 2005 at 2:36 PM
| link to this | reply
Just curious, Kooka. What would you do if at some point in the lives of your boys (while they were still under age and living with you) they came to you and said they had become Christians and had given their lives to the Lord and wanted to be baptized?
posted by
TAPS.
on February 10, 2005 at 12:00 PM
| link to this | reply
Gheeghee
Right here the most interesting thing you have made very clear is an idea that I have been trying to get across for some time. The Bible and the ideas in the Bible are very much out dated. Also that every single translation of the Bible has been changed to fit the needs seen by those who have translated it. At that point, unless you try to claim that God has a hand in one translation (At which point it really becomes a crap shot as to which one God's has chosen) all version of the Bible are meaningless and should be ignored as being fact.
Considering that no one follows the original Bible it really does not matter which version one uses.
Those were the first three commandments I used, as they are given. There is nothing out of context. Also, as for notes for the verses, any such notes would be 100% purely one group of people's take on what is presented. They would be even more meaningless than the Bible itself. Any note are fully man made and are going to have whatever spin those who write them wish to give. This post itself is more meaningful than any such notes because I am not trying to gain any followers by making things sounds better than they are nor am I using this to convert. I am openly talking about what is said in the Bible here and how it looks to me.
You are dancing around what I presented here and are busy trying to distract from the point that was made. Just throwing out questions as you did only helps to show the weaknesses in the Bible.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 10, 2005 at 11:45 AM
| link to this | reply
More questions for you to consider:
What was the political climate at the time the passages were originally written, or thought to be written? Was there a society? What were their societies like? How were the Hebrews at the time of the passage you quoted treated, viewed? How did the Hebrews treat and view other cultures?
Back to that bible you chose to quote from, what year was that original translation done? What was the political climate during that period? Who commissioned the translation and why?
One other question: What's the best way to read a book, cover to cover or by opening it and reading it a sentence at a time?
posted by
Gheeghee
on February 10, 2005 at 9:51 AM
| link to this | reply
Kooka......................................................................
Which version of the bible did you use? What was the meaning as it was understood in its original language? Are there other possible ways to translate the original text? How is the verse you quoted applied in context to the rest of the section? Chapter? Book? The rest of the Bible? How does it read in other translations? Are there notes available on the verse you presented? What do they say? Are there commentaries available? What do they say?
posted by
Gheeghee
on February 10, 2005 at 9:51 AM
| link to this | reply
Gheeghee
What are the first three commandments?
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me (Wow, he straight out says he is going to punish you and your children for because of jealousy. I could write a full post on just that alone). And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."
"Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain."
Those alone straight out say that God is commanding you to love and respect him.
"What if they kicked you out of your life; told everyone that you were dead; stole from you...tried to kill you?"
Well if I was the kind of father God is, I would not be one bit surprised when that happened and I would just go back to watching my TV after yelling at them that they are going to be punished for acting that. But since I am a much better father that the Biblical idea of God, I would instead become active in their lives and try to do all in my power to help them and make it very clear that I am there for them. I no point would I ever say I am not going to forgive them just because they deny me. Of course since I would never raise me children the way God raises his 'children' I am fairly sure my boys are not going to turn out that way. I am active in their lives.
I just wrote a whole post about how God goes about his parenting. Go and read that I give a reply there
As far as I am concerned the God you and other believe to be active in your lives is you own personal creation. I have yet to see any proof of this being otherwise. It is much like the orphan child who creates an imaginary father figure and relies on that dream to help him to feel better. I can promise you that God is not active at all in my life, nor the lives of the people I know who are the happiest in life.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 8, 2005 at 7:30 PM
| link to this | reply
Kooka:
You wrote: “If God is going to punish his children because they are not showing him the love he demands (For that is what he continues to do in the Bible time and time again), then he is really not much of a father.” God does not demand that we love Him, nor does he demand that we worship Him. If He did, you’d certainly be dead.
You are not looking at “the general idea of God and the various presentations of God” at all, but at your own misguided ideas. In other words, you completely misrepresent God across the board.
For example: In your comment you say, “In some ways God is that idea of a perfect imaginary father figure who you know really loves you, but for whatever reasons is never seen nor does he have any part whatsoever in the child's life.” Whose lives are you talking about here? You really can't talk about the lives of others, as you don't live their lives and experience what they experience, so you must be talking about your life. Well duh, again. You say He doesn’t exist, call Him a fairy tale, ultimately blame Him through His believers for everything under the sun; basically you tell Him you don't want a God in your life. Then you wonder why God does not have a part of your life.
You repeatedly present a flawed concept of God, therefore your conclusions are irrelevant. You do not understand—nay, you don’t WANT to understand—that God does not “punish” us for not loving Him, or really for anything. We make choices and there are consequences for our choices.
Isn’t that how it works, Kooka? For every action there is a reaction?
You can't imagine not loving your children. Well, hello. What if they kicked you out of your life? What if they told everyone that you were dead? What if they stole from you, or anyone? Would you still love them? What if they tried to kill you? Would you still love them?
I believe the answer is yes here. No doubt you love your children, I see that clearly in your writing.
Now, a new question. What if they kicked you out of your life; told everyone that you were dead; stole from you...tried to kill you? Would you have an active relationship with them, or would you just try to love them from afar?
posted by
Gheeghee
on February 8, 2005 at 2:51 PM
| link to this | reply
It's not about showing things, Kooka
It's about doing them right here and right now. We try to act with perfect justice all the time because we believe there IS such a thing as perfect justice. We don't do perfect on this earth because this is an animal we carry around as our body. A mammal, homo sapiens, the beast that thinks, and thinks it is not a beast. That is some pretty funny stuff, Kooka. That's the real irony of faith, that to understand we are a part of the light energy we call spirit is to understand that this body must die one day (hopefully when we are old) after we have fought many wars. We act fair and just because we expect to be treated that way, now AND forever. We are not waiting to get to heaven some day, we are living as if it's already here and there are just a few more jerks and a-holes around than we would have expected. That's alright, we can deal with it.
posted by
pappy
on February 7, 2005 at 3:50 PM
| link to this | reply
Hi Kooka!! Hope you're well, I see you're holding your own as usual!
Sorry to butt in, I'll leave now! Just wanted to say hello to you. 
posted by
Kelli
on February 7, 2005 at 3:14 PM
| link to this | reply
and gheeghee
Nothing I said in this post talked about Christians at all. I was looking at the general idea of God and the various presentations of God.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 7, 2005 at 3:13 PM
| link to this | reply
gheeghee
None of my posts are angered filled.
I have no problem with God, since I have yet to see anything to prove God to be anything more than a fictional character.
I love my boys unconditionally and would never deny them my love no matter what. This is one are that males no sense to me at all about the concepts of God. If God is going to punish his children because they are not showing him the love he demands (For that is what he continues to do in the Bible time and time again), then he is really not much of a father. A good father does not demand nor expect to be love just because he is a father. They are active in the child's life and make ls sure their child know just how much they mean to him. They do not make threats that 'if you of not say you love me I'm going to send you to your room," especially if that father is not showing himself to be part of that child's life.
In some ways God is that idea of a perfect imaginary father figure who you know really loves you, but for whatever reasons is never seen nor does he have any part whatsoever in the child's life. Almost the ideal dream of an orphan really.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 7, 2005 at 3:10 PM
| link to this | reply
Kooka: You make an awful lot of assumptions. I'm not too sure where you are getting your info on Christianity, but that might be part of the problem.
There are two rules to Christianity:
"Love God with all you've got."
"Love your neighbor as yourself."
What is the consequense of not doing these things? Being alone, being empty. Having nothing. You've got kids, you know how it feels when they look at you with love. Can you imagine them looking at you with disdain or hatred? Stop loving them and that would be the consequence. Don't you think that would be punishment enough? That is the punishment of not loving your neighbor (neighbor defined as any human being).
Your big beef is certainly with loving God. How can you love a being that is what you've described over and over again in this anger-filled blog of yours? Well, I wouldn't love that version of God either. Luckily, you do not define God, so my faith is well placed, in the One True God that defines Himself.
posted by
Gheeghee
on February 7, 2005 at 8:21 AM
| link to this | reply
Kooka, divine laws I don't think we should have to think too hard about.
In another sense I don't think we will ever really comprehend such a thing. I think you're right, life is life, once it's started then what do we expect? Miracles? Magic? No! LIFE is what we should expect, and all that it encompasses is what we should consider to be the miracle, or the magic, but no......that's not good enough anymore. I mean it is LIFE! The things that happen during be they considered good or bad will never be considered the same to everyone anyway. It's just life. It's just a miracle that no one sees.
posted by
Kelli
on February 6, 2005 at 7:50 PM
| link to this | reply
people believe what they want to believe
and no amount of fact is going to change that.
posted by
Xeno-x
on February 6, 2005 at 12:56 PM
| link to this | reply
kooka_lives --- where did the God Squad go ?
this place has become a tomb in need of a ressurection. Maybe we could whip one up like they did 2,000 years ago to cheer a few people up some.
posted by
gomedome
on February 5, 2005 at 8:17 PM
| link to this | reply
Im Confused
I was told years ago when I went to religion God was going to make me pay for the sins of the church and live without grace, They said I was going to die like Jesus Christ. I truly suffered as well thre life. I have mixed emotions about God.
posted by
Experience
on February 5, 2005 at 6:56 PM
| link to this | reply
e_h_p
yeah I know.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 5, 2005 at 3:04 PM
| link to this | reply
i'm talking to your wife right now
posted by
Xeno-x
on February 5, 2005 at 2:55 PM
| link to this | reply
very true
posted by
Xeno-x
on February 5, 2005 at 2:55 PM
| link to this | reply