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Ooooppss!
Guess I goofed--Here is the scripture I MEANT to reference: Matthew 5:43-47
(43)"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shall love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy. (44) But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; (45)That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven; For he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. (46)For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye: do not even the publicans the same:? (47)And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye mor than others? do not even the publicans so?
The rest of my comment remains the same.
FR
posted by
freerain
on February 5, 2005 at 8:37 PM
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Experience
I admit that there are times when war is a needed thing and can not be helped. But in the case of our present conflict with Iraq that is far from being true. The general idea is that one should not be using a belief in God or Jesus to justify going to war. Besides the simple fact that such a thing is very clearly unconstitutional it is also hypocritical and shows a real lack of integrity.
This goes into my past talks about gray areas. Not everything is black or white and many Christians try to claim. There are times when it is needed to break God's laws and those occasion where war is regretfully needed are one of the very clear occasion where you have to break that commandment and kill, just do not say you are doing God's will be doing so.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 4, 2005 at 7:20 AM
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Jackie
"the peace teachings from Christ are for individuals not governments. Governments are a result of individuals in a democratic society such as ours.
Only a socialist applies the teachings of Jesus to the government and so becomes a phony applicator of Christs teachings. Socualist idealogues do not jive with our free capitalist society which is rooted in Christianity:"
What I am reading here is that you are saying that a Capitalist government is above having moral values. While I will agree that that is what our government seems to be doing, I do not for one moment believe that is the way it should be. In other words the desire to get the next dollar is more important than following a moral path. I have no clue as to where Jesus ever said such a thing or mentioned that governments need not follow his examples.
As I have talked about in the past I do believe that the government needs to be separate from religion (In which case Bush is doing everything wrong when he uses his religious beliefs to justify his actions) but not at the cost of their morals and integrity (Not that Bush or most politicians have such values to begin with). It seems that religions is being used to defend the opposite ideas for government than it should be. If an elected official is going to use his beliefs to justify things I would rather have those things be true moral values than leading us to war or justifying discrimination.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 4, 2005 at 7:14 AM
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back to back to war
we all are compelled to war.
humans are a destructive lot
when we aren't taking lives outright,
we are taking them in liittle bits by what we say and do to others
all of us.
it is coming to this realization that should compel us to avert our course away from the h arming of others. It's hard, and we continue, for we can't help ourselves. But if we try, we can harm others less.
posted by
Xeno-x
on February 2, 2005 at 3:26 PM
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empty-handed...The title of your comment "Back To War"
might be a good place to start answering your own question. What compels you, as you say, "back to war?"
posted by
Gheeghee
on February 2, 2005 at 2:47 PM
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my god jackie_o
how you can make such blanket statements such as
"what is this christian hating socialist blathering about? What is his her point?
the peace teachings from Christ are for individuals not governments. Governments are a result of individuals in a democratic soceity such as ours.
Only a socialist applies the teachings of Jesus to the government and so becomes a phony applicator of Christs teachings. Socualist idealogues do not jive with our free capitalist society which is rooted in Christianity:"
FREE CAPITALIST SOCIETY ROOTED IN CHRISTIANITY? -- that's a whole bunch of hogwash and bullshit! Capitalism was not in existence until basically the industrial revolution. Capitalism is investing in corporations and corporations are a very recent part of society, no more than about 300 years old.
Democracy -- yes -- it's rooted farther back than that -- Greece and Semitic peoples had democracies hundreds of years before Yeshua. Israel under the judges was democratic -- that's how they elected the judges -- moses said, "choose you people to be judges".
sociology was really the original culture -- from the hunter-gatherer tribal societies, where the tribe had everything in common and shared everything and did not own land and felt the land was not to be owned (as in the indigenous American Peoples).
sharing part of the wealth was part of the Jewish laws. There's a tithe that goes to the "widow and the orphan" -- there are prophets scathing against those who don't leave a little in their fields for the widow and orphan and wayfaring stranger.
the practices of modern corporate America are obviously and totally in violation of virtually every commandment in the book -- stealing, killing, covetousness -- and certainly not in line with "Love thy neighbor". I do not at all see where contemporary capitalism is in any manner in concert with bibilical teachings.
you who support bibilical teachings -- are you being hypocritical then when you support corporate America?
posted by
Xeno-x
on February 2, 2005 at 12:12 PM
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back to war
it's odd how humans love war isn't it?
we crusade in many ways and war is one of them.
we want our tribe to prevail.
then we find excuses.
all the great empires have gone to war and have used their deities as reasons.
there is no religion or country or people that hasn't gone to war as far as I know.
why?
posted by
Xeno-x
on February 2, 2005 at 12:00 PM
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People don't go to war for God, but for themselves.
People use God's name as a blanket to justify their own behavior, to back their own agenda. There is little anyone can do about the behaviors of others.
There will be wars, The Bible that every Christian reads discusses these changing times in every book; Ecclesiastes even says it outright: "A time to kill, and a time to heal...a time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace." (3:3, 3:8) The real question that should be asked here is how does a real Christian, one that truly believes and tries to follow their faith, respond, react, during times of war? Isn't this what the pursuit of Christianity is all about? Doing the right thing no matter what others are doing?
posted by
Gheeghee
on February 2, 2005 at 11:34 AM
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love you jackie_o
that's the old Cantey we used to know.
ready to attack and bring disrepute to another.
I'm trying to figure how what you're saying has any intercourse with the question at hand.
Basically, I think Yeshua is talking about freerain in those statements -- talking about me too -- I feel the calling -- hallelujah!!!
but back to the question at hand
Yeshua also said, in quoting, "Whoever takes up the sword shall die by the sword." And I think this applies to countries and nations too.
And this bodes especially ill for the United States, particularly now, when, through lies and misrepresentations and ignoring the rest of the world, this falsely seated administration has done something that only the worst dictators have done -- invaded another country.
The bible also says something about bringing down the wrath of god on "an hypocritical nation" -- that certainly applies to the Bush Administration, which invades Iraq for its own purposes and ends and yet turns its back on other countries that are greater violators, mainly because they supply us with things that our big corporations need in order to make bigger profits.
If we were to use the Bible in a real context, then we should expect the imminent collapse of the United States of America, primarily as a result of the illicit actions of the Bush Administration.
posted by
Xeno-x
on February 2, 2005 at 7:25 AM
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Sometimes you need war.
War is not goof. But sometimes to save people you need to stop the evil rulers. Such as Hitler. If no one believed in Killing how would they have stopped Hitler and the Evil that was being done. King David had to stop King Saul. He was sick in his mind. I write as well. Please visit my site and give me your comment. Thank You
posted by
Experience
on February 1, 2005 at 9:30 PM
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Good one kooka
It cannot be both ways…what did he say?
I would rather you be hot or cold…because if you are luck warm…I will spit you out…(paraphrased)
posted by
justAcarpenter
on February 1, 2005 at 9:26 PM
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freerains comment is a crock of garbage
43
Jesus therefore answered and said to them,
"Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life what is this christian hating socialist blathering about? What is his her point?
the peace teachings from Christ are for individuals not governments. Governments are a result of individuals in a democratic soceity such as ours.
Only a socialist applies the teachings of Jesus to the government and so becomes a phony applicator of Christs teachings. Socualist idealogues do not jive with our free capitalist society which is rooted in Christianity:
While the earth remains,
Seedtime and harvest,
Cold and heat,
Winter and summer,
And day and night
Shall not cease.":
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled:
"Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.
posted by
calmcantey75
on February 1, 2005 at 7:06 PM
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The words of Jesus
(as written in Matthew 6:43-48) should be enough to stop EVERY Christian, who dares call themselves after the name of Jesus Christ and NOT be a hypocrite, from any act of violence against an "enemy." I won't take up your comment space writing the KJV of the scriptures, Kooka, there will be plenty who will. For those "christians" who voted for GWB, they are not followers of Jesus Christ, but publicans and hypocrites.
Peace,
FR
posted by
freerain
on February 1, 2005 at 6:34 PM
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