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Friar -
I apologize if I came across as capricious or whimsical. That was not my intent. Nor was it my intent to imply that one should think whimsically or capriciously about “God”. Maybe I did not explain myself well enough.
I do have to say that the concepts that I wrote about (thinking differently about "God" and missing the mark in one's understanding about, and relationship with, "God') fit perfectly with my understanding about Yeshua and his message.
With regard to the concept of “turning one’s back to “God” as the Hebrew idea of sin can mean, you're right. It does imply turning one's back on God. But I do think one can turn one's back on "God" by getting caught up in what is considered orthodox thinking. If one believes that "God" is judgmental, if one believes that Christians are the only one’s who will get to “heaven”, if one believes that the love shared between two people of the same sex is an abomination, then one is turning one’s back to the “God” that I believe Yeshua spoke of. And I also believe that saving someone, as referred to in the Bible, is to pull someone away from the possibility of spiritual death.
I hope this helps to explain my position a bit more.
posted by
sannhet
on January 28, 2005 at 8:06 AM
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Empty -
You are right. Persistence is the key.
posted by
sannhet
on January 28, 2005 at 7:53 AM
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Pappy -
Thanks to you too!
posted by
sannhet
on January 28, 2005 at 7:06 AM
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JustA -
Thanks!
posted by
sannhet
on January 28, 2005 at 7:05 AM
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no argument with friar_tuck
the word meanings are very descriptive and to the point
King James English is what gets in the way.
so many sermons have been given on sin and repentance and these are just empty words -- it's when the real nature of the word is investigated that we begin to see.
in a manner of speaking, there really are only two ways to go -- the right way and the wrong way.
but across the religions and philosophies, these ways are pretty well delineated
people turn around at different rates -- there is no perfect 180 -- gradiations -- 3 or 5 or 15 or maybe 100 but that latter might really be nonexistent -- it's like a ship -- to turn such a massive object around is a tedious task -- slow
but it takes persistence and one's vision remaining on the goal
posted by
Xeno-x
on January 28, 2005 at 6:50 AM
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To Think Freely
is not a license to relativism, however. Freedom is not identical with "capricious whims and fancies". Apart from this, the meanings you give for sin is incomplete. Hamartia is to miss the mark. But in Hebrew, the idea of sin not only has the connotation of missing the mark but also that of turning one's back (to God) and outright rebellion. For this reason, conversion is characterized by the Hebrew verb "shub" which means "to make a 180 degree turn". The NT translates this as hypostrepho "turn around". Metanoia is not only a "change of mind" in the intellectual sense of the term: it is a change that also has moral connotations. "To save" in the Bible is "to pull someone away from the possibility of death." Read the psalms: "to deliver" gets its connotation from the Hebrew prayer book. It is not coincidental that when Yahweh decides to free Israel from Egypt, it was because he heard their cry.
posted by
Friar__Tuck
on January 27, 2005 at 9:35 PM
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It is too bad, sannhet
But it's never too late to start. Keep up the good news!
posted by
pappy
on January 27, 2005 at 8:22 PM
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I’ll just stick with Excellent Work on this one too.
posted by
justAcarpenter
on January 27, 2005 at 5:24 PM
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Empty -
Thanks. And you ain't kiddin'!
posted by
sannhet
on January 27, 2005 at 3:55 PM
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a very good different take on it
boy are we saved!
posted by
Xeno-x
on January 27, 2005 at 2:42 PM
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David1 -
Thanks for the kind words. I hope others agree with you.
posted by
sannhet
on January 27, 2005 at 1:23 PM
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sannhet
This post is terrific! Short and to the point; and exactly they way it is, or should be! 
I have read many books about how people have misunderstood and misinterpreted words like "sin" and "repent", and they all say the same as you; but never posted about it. I am so glad you did!
I thank you for writing this! In my mind it is one of the best! 
posted by
David1Spirit
on January 27, 2005 at 12:59 PM
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