Go to The Reverend Kooka Speaks About Religious Bulls#!t
- Add a comment
- Go to MY GOD CAN BEAT-UP YOUR GOD
Jane--
Jesus commanded, saying, "Go not in the way of the Gentiles and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Matthew 10:5-6
Clearly, it was not Jesus's desire or intent that his teachings be spread about like so much fodder among those who were not of the House of Israel. Missionaries are going against the commandment of Jesus HIMSELF when they preach the teachings and works of Jesus.
Don't bother to bring up any writings of Paul, rather, that murderous scoundrel Saul, who delighted in the death of those who followed after Jesus--counting them heretics and worthy of death.
FR.
posted by
freerain
on January 4, 2005 at 8:50 PM
| link to this | reply
Freerain
Thank You.
That was a good point.
posted by
kooka_lives
on January 4, 2005 at 3:48 PM
| link to this | reply
Janes
You have made several comments here about homosexuals and atheist in which the only source of said information is Christians propaganda. When one regurgitates such inaccurate ideas one gives the impression that they do not look for facts beyond what is handed to them. If you truly wish to give an impression other than what you have given, then you might wish to start finding other sources of information than Christians web sites and articles before you state ideas found in such sources as being fact.
posted by
kooka_lives
on January 4, 2005 at 3:47 PM
| link to this | reply
Oh and Kooka, by the way
I do not believe everything I'm told . . . as you so arrogantly accused me of doing. Not by a long shot. Just ask my parents! I went through a period in my life when I gave serious study to the major world religions and for quite awhile was willing to be anything but Christian. I also spent long hours with a UCC minister in a desperate attempt to justify homosexuality with the Bible. And I was very much pro choice. So to blatantly assume that I am a closed minded, weak Christian who "only believes what others tell her to believe" type person is so blatantly inaccurate I'd say it comes pretty close to being libel.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on January 4, 2005 at 1:55 PM
| link to this | reply
Freerain
You gave an excellent example when you discussed the Good Samaritan. But you left out one VERY important part. That same Jesus, who told the story about the good samaritan, also gave the very clear order to "go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation." I'm thinking you would do well to re-read the Gospels again.
As much as modern day quasi religious folk -- touchy feely take a pinch of this religion and a pinch of that religion mixed with watered down New Age philosophy to make an easy, palatable milque toast spirituality -- desperately want to have it their own way, nowhere in the Bible does God bless that sort of thinking.
So nice try, but incomplete.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on January 4, 2005 at 1:50 PM
| link to this | reply
Peace,
FR
posted by
freerain
on January 4, 2005 at 10:03 AM
| link to this | reply
The Good Samaritan
as told in the New Testament, did all that he could do to help a suffering human. There is no mention of the Samaritan meeting up with this injured person and preaching his faith or cause for doing such good. Christians want to take this example and use it as a mandate to serve others who are in need, but they add insult to injury by using Jesus as the "reason" behind their actions. Too bad Christians need a REASON to act humanly to another human being. They are worse than the priest and the Levite who passed the wounded man by, for they would not abuse him with false concern, they believed, in their selfish minds, that this man must have done evil, so they avoided him altogether. The Samaritan, simply saw another human in need and met that need and did it so that every need would be met. No preaching, to accusation against this persons moral behavior or beliefs. This is the true spirit of compassion--to give without thought of reward or recognition--but for the sake of doing good works alone (whom the Father rewardeth in secret 
). Christian missionaries go forth for two reasons, first, (they believe) it is commanded by God (too bad they have to be commanded to do good) and second, it is in their human nature to have compassion for others--we all have it, it is in our nature and not a gift bestowed on us through a divine authority.
A very good piece, Kooka, but fundalmentalists will not understand--because they are not of God (knowledge) and they are more like the Jews who accused Jesus of being of the Devil because he spoke the truth (how many times have Christians accused you of being a servant of Satan?)
Peace,
FR
posted by
freerain
on January 4, 2005 at 9:57 AM
| link to this | reply
Janes
First off we did talk about his missionary work. We do not talk about religion because we get into heated debates over it and get upset, but I did listen to him talk about how the people are viewed and such. He very much thinks of the older native beliefs as being evil and wrong. Much of what he said implied that he and the other missionaries saw a need to drive away all of the traditions and such in order to replace them with Christian teachings. This was generally how they would get eh natives to recruit others. Once you are able to get someone to give up their heritage and accept something to fill in the newly created gap, of course they are going to spread what they now se as what has been missing (Even though before their traditions and way of life were destroyed they had no such hole to fill) and do all their can to work the same affect on others.
At no point have I ever said missionaries do not do good. I admit that they do a lot of good around the world and I have no problem with the deeds themselves. The true issue is the underlining purpose of the deeds is to convert people and destroy their heritage. No missionary would ever admit to this. Like you they point out all the good deeds and help, without mentioning that they do nothing at all to help the natives keep their own traditions and beliefs. There is no respect for for other's beliefs shown.
There may be no forceful and active converting going on, but you check out any of those groups and they make it very clear their main purpose is to spread the teaching of Christ. This comes before the idea of giving help mind you.
It greatly saddens me to think that there are beliefs systems out there that could have been very uplifting and spiritual that most likely have been forgotten because missionaries went and did all in their power to destroy those beliefs. The world will be emptier place for each system of beliefs that are eliminated and forgotten.
My views of Christianity are truthful, not hateful. I have no hate for anything Christian. I have little if any room for hate in my life. I have many, many issues with Christianity and I very openly state them. I cannot help it if I believe in freedom of thought and figuring out life for yourself. I can not help if I believe the greatest strength in life comes from being true to yourself. I understand these are very non-Christian ideas and that many Christian get upset when someone points this out ot them.
I really think the atheist of the country need to come together and start their own missionaries groups and really show the world how it is done. If any of my friends had money they would be very active in helping out. Honestly I have yet ot see a more caring group than those who I role-play with. None of us have money however, so we can do little in the way of financially supporting any such group. I can not see how such a thing can be help against us though. Are you the one giving the thousands of dollars to those places? Or is it a church who has gone and used the propaganda, misinformation and lies to get followers who spends the money? A very poor try at discrediting me there.
You obviously believe as you are told to believe by others. I believe in what I see and learn about. I have my eyes wide open and see things how they are, while you seem to only see things as you are told to see them.
posted by
kooka_lives
on January 3, 2005 at 4:17 PM
| link to this | reply
If you want the truth
about missions and missionaries, I dare you to check out
http://www.blogit.com/Blogs/Blog.aspx/JanesOpinion/215335.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on January 3, 2005 at 9:18 AM
| link to this | reply
Kooka, my friend, all I can say here is this...
I completely understand where you're coming from and certainly understand your points. By far, I do not want to start a debate with anyone that obviously is in disagreement with your stand point. I just don't have time. However, I must only say that I often get quite frustrated with "missionaries" who travel to foreign countries that happen to be in serious mayhem, often wind up in dyer need for rescue after being caught by the enemy. These “missionaries” claim to travel to these places just “to help out” when in all honesty, later comes out (mostly from their own mouths or the church that sponsored them to go) that they set out to “help” but also to spread the word of Jesus Christ. Is THAT worth their life? Is that worth taking themselves as parents away from their own kids and/or family? Most importantly, is that worth risking the lives of OUR military to try and save/rescue them after their capture? I say absolutely NOT. They risk their lives in an obvious dangerous atmosphere after a fair share of warning, then they’re on their own. Period.
posted by
SpitFire70
on January 3, 2005 at 1:14 AM
| link to this | reply
I still say stick with something you know
like perhaps your fantasy dungeons and dragons. Until you've actually walked in the shoes of some of these missionaries, and seen what they've done, you've not a clue about missions work since obviously you and your missionary friend don't even talk about his work. Spend some time in an underserved country where life is difficult and there are few amenities, where cold water showers are the norm -- on a good day if the water's on, and electricity is spotty at best. Where communication with home is unpredictable and infrequent, and food may not be easily or readily available. Where safety is in question. Go to Yemen and operate a hospital there expecting nothing in return, or to Sudan where bombs were being dropped on hospitals -- again expecting nothing in return, except perhaps injury or death.
I would be the first to admit that many wrongs were committed in the name of Christ by those who settled this country and forced the Native Americans to worship God. From my many experiences with missionaries today, though, tactics have changed. Big time. My church is a "sending church" in that we sponsor and send missionaries to many countries. And yes, I've even witnessed some of the work being done as I have traveled to a few countries with these missionaries. In one country we sponsor several orphanages caring for hundreds of children whose parents have died of AIDS. Those children are loved, schooled and cared for in every way. There are orphanages in Asia run for the sole purpose of caring for children who were sold into the sex slave trade and then rescued -- by Christians of all people (yes, I know this is so hard for you to believe). They are given medical and psychological care and again, their physical needs are met. Other missionaries are working with women in Muslim countries who, if widowed, are little more than chattel and treated like dirt. So they are trained in occupations in order to provide for themselves and their children, and not worry about relying on their relatives for assistance. And then there are the "untouchables" in India. The upper castes did not want them, but they are flocking to Christ by the millions. There's no coercion going on. Why not take a look at the caste system of India (which supposedly no longer exists on paper, yeah right) and see how the leading religion of that country has rejected so many of its own people.
It would seem to me, Kooka, that all you have to offer is extreme cynicism and an arrogant, hateful opinion of Christians. Oh yes, and the repeated, tired accusations of "lies, propaganda and misinformation." Get with it, man. Open your eyes. Do a little research and check out just WHO it is working with the world's suffering. Oh yeah, but I forgot, it's all a bunch of propaganda being spread by Christians who are filled with lies and bent on spreading misinformation. Well, then, OK. Here's a suggestion for you. Since you don't believe anything I have to say and have done your best to discredit all of my comments, why not at the very least have your dungeons and dragons group sponsor an orphanage in Africa. Then I might just take notice and pay attention to your many accusations. Send a medical team there; give a few thousand a month to help feed these children who've lost all of their adult relatives. . . .
I could go on, and on, and on. When spreading misinformaton about missionaries, Kooka, you have run into someone who will not roll over and eat your garbage. I've had experience with too many of them to believe a word of your vitriole. My eyes are wide open to the extraordinary work they are doing. I have seen into their hearts and can only see pure gold refined by the fires of tribulation and difficulties.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on January 2, 2005 at 9:24 PM
| link to this | reply
Also Janes
That web site very clearly shows my point here. Here is a full quote form it in fact:
"The organization serves the Church worldwide to promote the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ."
This is saying that the main purpose it to spread the word of Christ. It mentions nothing about helping people, which I have to then figure is not the main objective of the group.
There is even a statement before it:
"Samaritan's Purse is a nondenominational evangelical Christian organization providing spiritual and physical aid to hurting people around the world. Since 1970, Samaritan's Purse has helped meet needs of people who are victims of war, poverty, natural disasters, disease, and famine with the purpose of sharing God's love through His Son, Jesus Christ."
In which it very clearly says that they are more concerned with the spiritual aspects (Which is mentioned first) above the physical ones. Some of these countries really have a strong faith in their beliefs and are not lacking spiritually, unless one wishes to enforce the idea that any beliefs that are not the same as their are spiritually wrong. Just read that last line to see them admit what they are really about.
posted by
kooka_lives
on January 2, 2005 at 8:07 PM
| link to this | reply
Janes
I personally am friends with a missionary and I know his attitude towards some of this. The helps is given, but not before the spiritual side is enforced. Normally the two are given together. My friend has also made it very clear that he does try to make the natives feel ashamed of their heritage (Although he does not say it that way, and certainly is not aware of what he is truly doing due to his faith) and get them to believe that their cultural beliefs are evil. So please do not tell me I have no idea of what I am tlaking about. When he is in the states to visit we make sure we do not talk about religion because we know it to be a subject that causes problems between us. He is as blind as you about what is being done in the name of Christianity, even when he is one of those who is doing it.
Part of the point I was trying to make is the level in which it is hypocrisy for Christians to get so offended whenever someone remarks about any aspects of their beliefs, while they are going around the world doing all they can to destroy all other belief systems. That is one of the key goals of missionary work. It is arrogance to believe otherwise. If it was just about helping other, then there would not be the need to completely destroy the native's faith and belief systems.
And it is pure hypocrisy for you to say such a thing to me when you yourself have done even worse regarding atheists and homosexuals. You have made many comments that have clearly showed you to lack any knowledge of either group, but instead allow for Christians propaganda, misinformation and leis to control your knowledge of such matters. The same thing is happening here in regards to missionary work as well. You see what you have been taught to see and nothing more. It is part of the ego of Christianity in general.
posted by
kooka_lives
on January 2, 2005 at 7:57 PM
| link to this | reply
Kooka
Your description of missionaries is so far off the mark, I can only assume that, once again, you are trying your hand at fiction -- science fiction or something along that line. I happen to support a number of missionaries, receive their newsletters and have also spoken to quite a few who are supported by my church. They happen to do exactly what you accuse them of NOT doing: they go off to dangerous areas and minister to the physical needs of the people first. Then, what so often happens is that these suffering people, who now have food in their bellies, clean water, are warm and have access to medical supplies ask the missionaries why they would risk their lives to reach out to them when no one else has. The missionaries then tell them about Jesus. In fact, just to to www.samaritanspurse.com and find out what they're doing there. They meet the physical needs of suffering people first, and then their spiritual needs.
You should be ashamed at yourself for so arrogantly spreading a pack of lies. Stick with what you know, man. On this subject you have no clue.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on January 2, 2005 at 2:55 PM
| link to this | reply