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Janes

I have many times proven some of these points in my past blogs. You have yet to produce anything to counter my claims. You keep telling me I ma wrong, but you have yet to point out where I am wrong. As I said, go point for point and prove me wrong and I will admit to being wrong. So far you are acting very childish. Unlike an experiments I can prove my point by showing the facts and showing what many Christians Churches feed out to their followers and show how the tow do not agree and that the Churches are saying has been proven wrong by the facts.

I have never claimed that Jesus never existed. I do not for one moment believe he was the son of God, btu I think there is a really good chance that he did live. Have no clue at all where you got the idea I thought he was made up. Not he has been blown out of proportion and turned into something he was not, but that is not the issue at hand.

AS for why so many follow Christianity if it is full of Propaganda, misinformation and lies? Well people do very often flock to what they wish to hear. Study history and you will see people following lies in great numbers die to being told what they wish to hear.

You really have made no headway in your efforts to prove me wrong here. You really have only acted emotional and have tried to defend a set of proven lies.

posted by kooka_lives on January 5, 2005 at 3:58 PM | link to this | reply

AIDS, predominant among

posted by freerain on January 4, 2005 at 9:34 PM | link to this | reply

"propaganda, misinformation, lies"

What is this?  Fiction 101?  Just because you make a statement in your blog does not mean it's the Gospel truth, Kooka.  You frequently refer to the past blogs you've written and how you've already "proven" the truth.  If you had a clue, a good scientist does not talk so much about proof because something cannot be proven until it has been shown valid by replicating the same study several times resulting in the same results.  Then you have proof.  By talking about Christianity and how you've PROVEN it to be false you're showing yourself to be a fool. 

I would venture to guess you think Plato was a real figure in history.  There are far more documents available demonstrating the existence of an historical Jesus, not to mention the New Testament, than there are demonstrating the historicity of Plato.  But oh I forgot.  Christianity has been PROVEN to be full of propaganda, misinformation and lies.  The expert has spoken, let the world take notice.

So I wonder why it is that thousands upon thousands throughout the world are coming to faith in Christ on a daily basis.  Gee.  Think they're believing in a pack of lies? 

posted by JanesOpinion on December 30, 2004 at 3:42 PM | link to this | reply

Janes

I do not hate Christians, and never have. I am sorry if when someone points out the truth to you it upsets you.

When you go and spread lies about a group in order to give your desired ideas about them, you are not attacking the sin, but the sinner. That shows no love at all. My issue with Christians is that they really are very much blind to these simple truths. Much of what the Christians faith is now days is a hugh mix of contradictions supported by the accepted propaganda, misinformation and lies. It is the Christians faith as a whole I hold issue with, not the individual Christians, some of which are not blinded to the BS that the faith itself is spitting out. When a person takes what is proven to be lies and holds it to be truth that shows a very serious problems in how that person grasps reality and just how much control they have over their own lives. I have seen way too many Christians embraces the misinformation, propaganda and lies that they have been fed by those who wish to control their thinking (You have very much just put yourself in this category now) and they reach a point where the will not believe the truth about such issues and will defend lies well past the point of all logic and reason. You and many other have taken the lies fed to you by those you trust and made them into your faith and so for any one to attempt to show the truth to you, makes you feel offended and feel that you have been attacked. I went through the same thing with Unicorn, who then created her own lies to defend other's lies. At least you seem to not be willing to sink that low. Although defending proven lies is really not a very impressive thing to do.

posted by kooka_lives on December 30, 2004 at 8:53 AM | link to this | reply

And you, Kooka,

in your profound arrogance, would never understand the Christian's desire to love the sinner (which we all are) but hate the sins (which all of us commit).

Any further comment on my part would be like casting pearls before swine.  I realize that comment will be offensive to you, but it's Biblical and truthful.  Go on hating Christians if it makes you feel better.  Won't be the first time, and certainly not the last.

posted by JanesOpinion on December 29, 2004 at 7:38 PM | link to this | reply

Janes

Many christians are very much guilty of spreading lies, misinformation and propaganda. I have already proven this to be fact time and time again here. Stating fact is different than making a generalization. I have already danced this dance with Uni and she only aided in showing me just how blind many Christians are to the fact that a large part of the belief is being influenced by the lies, misinformation and propaganda. You are only helping me to prove my point by trying to claim anything else here, when I have already in past posts proven the simple truth of that.

As for my knowledge that Christians care most when someone is venerable, this is first hand experience. I have known many Christians who have gone and tried to take my hardships and use the times when I was at my most emotional to try and convert me. Believe what you wish about how you are, but your views here clearly show you to not be as caring about man kind in general as you claim. Anyone can show kindness to a person in need. A truly caring person shows kindness all the time no matter what an other's differences may be. You can not go and say cruel and insulting things such as homosexuality being related to pedophilia (Which is pure Christians misinformation) and then in the next breath try to claim that you care about them. The accusation alone says you have no love for them. Just justifying yourself because you are there for them when their lives are at their worst does not counter the obvious contempt you feel for them otherwise.

posted by kooka_lives on December 29, 2004 at 7:02 PM | link to this | reply

Excuse me,

but you insult me when you accuse Christians of "lies, propaganda and misinformation" and whatever other negative comments you made.  And this isn't intolerance?  So you can accuse Christians of a variety of ills, (and, by the way, you're WRONG) but I cannot make a generalization about atheisim?  No, Kooka, YOU don't get it.

Furthermore, I am insulted that you assume I would take care of these dying AIDS patients only to witness to them.  And you call us hateful?  Not once did I bring up the name of Christ or attempt to propagandize (as I believe you so gently called it).  I happen to believe, as do many other Christians, that a person's walk is more important than their talk. 

This is all a bunch of tripe -- trying to communicate with you.  I'm sorry I was even tempted to begin.

posted by JanesOpinion on December 29, 2004 at 6:30 PM | link to this | reply

Janes

You made very insulting and over general comments about atheist in your post and that is what upset me. I do not have any double standards. I made no generalizations here.

Are you saying that the Christians out there who are creating these lies, propaganda and misinformation are not negative? Are you defending lies now? If the majority of Christians would live up to what they claim to be their beliefs, then I would not say anything about them. But in truth there is large number of Christians who go around and back up the accusations I state against them through their actions, much as you are doing right now with your words.

I am far form being closed minded because I will not believe misinformation, propaganda and lies. I have yet to find anything written by your christians scholars that is anything but.

I have no doubt that Christian will be there in time of trouble for anyone, mostly in hopes of converting them (I have seen this up front and personal) but these are often the same people whoa re right now trying to take away the rights of those people they are trying to claim to care for. That is a double standard. You only care for them in times when you think you can gain their conversion, not when ti is their lifestyle that is being attacked. You see true love for a group would not involve claiming them to be evil and wicked, or making accusations against them as group (As you did in trying to claim that homosexuality leads to pedophilia) btu instead accept them for who they are and allow for them to live life as they please. Try to befriend them for who they are when they are not sick and dying and vulnerable. Treat them as you would anyone else when they are walking down the street holding hands and do not pass judgment on them. That would show that I am wrong about Christians, not helping them out at times when they are at their lowest. I guess I just believe in building people up all the time, not only when they are down.

I guess I am also lucky that all of the gay people I have ever known have never gotten AIDS. Most have really only had serious relationships. But of course I am not looking to get to know them to try and convert them to any way of thinking, but instead am kind to them in general as I would be to any other person.

You comments here very much help to show just who has the double standard when compared to your earlier comments on the issue.

posted by kooka_lives on December 29, 2004 at 3:40 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka,

I am intrigued to see first hand once again your extraordinary double standards in action.  You became quite upset when, in a blog of mine awhile back, I made some negative comments about atheists and atheism, and yet you (very intolerantly) go on and on with great negativity about anything pertaining to Christianity or Christians. Where is the justice in this? God forbid that I say anything negative about your atheism, but all you do is rant on against Christianity. Where is that so called tolerance for which you are famous?  You talk in other blogs about how atheism is so tolerant of religions and peace loving, etc. I certainly haven't seen it.  Your intolerance is out there in plain sight for all to see.

Regarding homosexuality, because you have so cavalierly made the Bible and its teachings irrelevant (in your mind at least), and because you refuse to even consider scholarly "Christian" studies showing the dangers of this lifestyle, then there is nothing I can say to refute your claims.  Nor should I try anymore.  It's a waste of my time attempting to deal with someone so arrogantly closed minded. 

You talk of how hateful Christians are towards gays and lesbians.  How very little you know.  I have cared for numerous men dying of AIDS.  It is generally not an easy way to die.  I have cared for their grieving lovers.  I have seen lesbians in clinic and compassionately cared for them -- even as they tried to hit on me.  And I am only one Christian.  You have absolutely no clue the number of Christians out there who, in the name of Christ and with the love of Christ are giving of themselves on behalf of suffering homosexuals. 

And yet you think you know everything there is to know about Christians and Christianity. You consider yourself the be all and end all of commentary on Christians.  Kooka, how little you actually know.

posted by JanesOpinion on December 29, 2004 at 7:49 AM | link to this | reply

Kooka, this reminds me of sort of a funny story, I live here in Orlando and I was looking for a church to go to last year, and I don't seem to fit in with very many when it comes to my personal beliefs about God, anyway...I picked one out and went and all they kept discussing was homosexual marriages and it just so happened that I had picked a homosexual church!  Man did I EVER not fit in!  (I have no qualms against anyone loving anyone else or marrying, but I thought this was kind of funny.....knowing me!) 

posted by Kelli on December 28, 2004 at 6:23 PM | link to this | reply

Janes

Actually I did this post in response to a quote form Scoop's post and from other comments I have seen around here on Blogit. The subject is not going to fade away because it is one you really do not have any logical defense against.

I have read such articles and have yet to find a credible one that proves the link to be there. The only place to find anything on any such studies that try to claim otherwise seem to be Christians web sites, and I will never believe those sites since there are filled with propaganda, misinformation and lies (Which I have proven such a thing to be true already). Unless I find such an article on a web site that I know to have some level of integrity, I will not believe the findings. Pedophilia in general is less related to actually sexual preference and has more to do with a mental illness. Straight men who are mentally ill in this way will molest boys, and that is written off as a homosexual committing the action, when in fact the guilty man does not find adult men at all attractive. Young boys are very famine before they start to mature. This is a simple fact that all of the religious articles seemed to over look just because it did not fit in with the misinformation they wished to spread.

It is the Christians who create lies about homosexuals in order to get people to be against them. It is the Christians themselves who are proving just how closed minded they are.

It is amazing that you are trying to make suggestion about myself because I wish to stand up for a group of people who I see as having their rights taken away from them. If I said that we should not treat blacks any different than whites or that women should be given equal pay and be treated as equals to men (All of which I do believe in and would very openly say if there was such a need) by your logic that would then make me a gay, black woman. I find is very sad that there are people who will not defend other people's rights unless those other people are just like them. I am seeing a great injustice and I am pointing it out.

posted by kooka_lives on December 28, 2004 at 4:29 PM | link to this | reply

Oh golly, Kooka

Here we go again.  You're fixated on this subject.  Hmm, I'd ask "I wonder why" but I'll leave that for the psychologists to ponder.  You also seem to have no inclination to read the numerous studies I sent your way showing a definite connection between pedophilia, child abuse and homosexuality, do you?  Your mind is made up.  And yet you call Christians close minded.  I don't get it. 

posted by JanesOpinion on December 28, 2004 at 2:11 PM | link to this | reply

kooka

I agree whole-heartedly with you on this issue.  Three of my nearest and dearest are gay, one of them having been in a monogamous relationship for over 11 years now.  They had a "commitment ceremony," but it's a shame their union can't be legally recognized.  I don't think they necessarily want to go to a church in tuxedos or white dresses, but they do want some recognition. (Jim actually once said -->"Oh dear god, my worst nightmare is a bunch of fags trying to plan their own weddings!")  The company he works for now has same sex partner benefits, as long as they can prove that they've lived together for at least a year, etc., etc.  That is a nice start, at least.   

posted by Holy_Grail on December 27, 2004 at 7:50 PM | link to this | reply

jackie

The title of the post came from the fact that I one time wondered if such a thing were possible. It would make for an interesting case. The basic idea being that everyone would owe me a dollar, unless they could prove that they are not helping cause problems. I went over several possible arguments I could see someone giving and worked out how I would counter them. I really came to the conclusion that everyone would owe me a dollar. If such a thing were possible a person doing it could make a lot of money. Of course I would owe myself a dollar as well, I have no delusion about that. But I think I would be willing to pay myself that dollar. It is one of those ideas that just stays around and might end up either in a story or as the story someday.

posted by kooka_lives on December 27, 2004 at 6:50 PM | link to this | reply

is it actually possible to sue the entire country?

like: Kooka Lives vs. The United States of America.

suing for extreme stupidity.

posted by calmcantey75 on December 27, 2004 at 6:42 PM | link to this | reply