Comments on THE STRENGTH OF ATHEISM

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Uni

I only am affiliated with the church in order to be an ordained minister. I have had nothing else to do with them at all.

If you had gotten my point back then, you would have stopped bring up the issue before now. I have made it very clear I do not take my title seriously. One does not need any such titles to be able to give advice and help people, yet our society puts so much into such titles. SO far it has been fairly obvious that I can give better advice that many who have gained their titles through studies. So far it does seem as though by putting that title out there it has attracted some people to see what I have to say. There is a value put on the title itself, with little regards to the advice given.

You on the other hand show yourself to be very much part of the church, no matter how hard you try to claim otherwise. You do not have even one thought that is original. Just the simple fact that you got ordained through a church points to such a thing being true. It has everything to do with facts and nothing to do with me trying to bash you.

posted by kooka_lives on December 28, 2004 at 6:28 PM | link to this | reply

why would you affiliate yourself with a "church" that you know nothing

about? Kooka, I got your point a long time ago when you first got this ordination thing. I don't adhere to the teachings of a church either. You miss my point out of eagerness to bash me.

posted by PastorB on December 28, 2004 at 6:17 PM | link to this | reply

uni

I know very little about the Universal Life Church. They just ordained me and that is all that I care about in regards to them.

You just love missing my points don't you?

Although just the fat that it upsets you so almost makes me want to be childish and play the title up more. But I'll be good.

Although it does not really seem that those who have gone through any kind of training are nay better than I at giving advice. They seem much more closed minded and accusing, more unloving towards their fellow man. Much more concerned with forcing people to follow out dated ideas and live life to a very strict and poorly thought out life style. Screw the idea of freedom and such. Screw the idea of knowledge and learning. I honestly think I make a very good minister because I am not limited by the teachings of any church, but instead am able to be very open minded about things.

posted by kooka_lives on December 28, 2004 at 5:02 PM | link to this | reply

jackie

Yes, I can

posted by kooka_lives on December 28, 2004 at 4:57 PM | link to this | reply

you already know my take on your "ordination" which you failed

to mention that Universal Life had at one time ordained dogs as well.
There was an interesting news report on these online ordinations, college degrees and such that was recently done.
It's like I said before, would you go to a doctor for brain surgery that hadn't gone to medical school but got his "degree" on line? As a Pastor, this type of thing is very insulting to me as I studied and worked very hard to gain the priveledge of being ordained.

posted by PastorB on December 28, 2004 at 4:53 PM | link to this | reply

can you marry people?

posted by calmcantey75 on December 28, 2004 at 4:41 PM | link to this | reply

Abe

You do not need to study to become a Reverend. I was ordained by the Universal Life Church. I am a legal minister with the title reverend. You see thanks to freedom of religion all you need to do is take a few minutes and fill out some information and you can become ordained.

When I did this I wrote a whole post on why I did. I was making a point, which went over the heads of many, many here. The title itself is meaningless to me, although I will perform any services that I see fit to perform when asked. You sound very much like unicorn here. I guess you do not agree with freedom of religion and would rather see there be some kind of legal rules about how one is to go about gaining such titles. Actually it is about just as easy to get the title 'Doctor' or 'Duke' or any such title. Titles do not matter at all, even if one did go and do whatever requirements one did. You obviously take titles too seriously.

I am legally ordained. Now that does not mean that all churches need to recognize this, but the government has to. All it takes is one legally recognized church to say I am a minister and guess what? I am a minster.

posted by kooka_lives on December 28, 2004 at 4:39 PM | link to this | reply

Reverend, at which seminary did you study... or are you self-appointed?

posted by cmoe on December 28, 2004 at 3:40 AM | link to this | reply

Reverend, at which seminary did you study... or are you self-appointed?

posted by cmoe on December 28, 2004 at 3:40 AM | link to this | reply

Uniter

You point out one case where an atheist was guilty of crimes against humanity, and I already debated that idea some time ago. I could however write a long, long list of Christians and others who believed in God who are guilty of crimes against humanity on the same level as Stalin. That really is a very poor argument.

My point is this however. If people were to suddenly stop believing in God or whatever their religious beliefs are, then suddenly they would not find any reason to fight. Their religious leaders would no longer have any power of them and so would not be able to try and make them think that those who believe in other ideas are guilty of causing all their problems. The middle East would suddenly lose all the hostility because they would not be able to use their petty differences (Which mostly come form religious beliefs) as an excuse to go fight each other. The majority of the problems the world is having right now comes from a belief in God. That is why Bush is hurting us a great deal. He is trying to play off of this and make it seem as though he is doing the work of God.

And once people stop having an excuse to point their fingers at each other as being the problem, all they will be left with is the simple fact that they need to build a better future by working together. Atheism holds great promise for the future, while I see no such thing in a belief in God.

posted by kooka_lives on December 27, 2004 at 4:36 PM | link to this | reply

re: hitler & the Holocaust

Christian views of Jews fueled the Holocaust, to be sure, views that has been part of the Christian milieu since almost the beginning -- starting around the destruction of Jerusalem about 70 C.E. -- the gospels of the time (Matthew, etc.) reflect a bias toward the Jews.
Christians who held on to "things Jewish" such as holidays, etc. were considered heretics.
Jews were pushed all over Europe -- from the Spanish Inquisition to the pogroms of the Czars -- all by devout Christians.
The Church supported the idea of Jews being less than human.
Hitler was just the end result of centuries of bias and persecution.

posted by Xeno-x on December 27, 2004 at 7:00 AM | link to this | reply

Information I want to share.

Good point you made. History speaks to us clearly abour Hitler professing to be allighned with God. We're reminded how one's view of things can be subjective and not even close to the way they are.

My thoughts on someone who believes in God, the Creator, Allah, or by whatever term one uses to refer to the force, the Creator, that provides us with the miracle of conscious awareness, accepts, as a truth, Its infinite power. God can do anything. We have some knowledge of what Infinity means, but, in truth, God still appears as a mystery. A number of basic things, separates us from God, imperfect vision, which in large part is determined by our ego. I believe I have a purpose. I had been reached by the otherside, I have been given information that I need to share about the Creator..

posted by Uniter on December 24, 2004 at 6:20 PM | link to this | reply

jackie_o -- of this there is no doubt

But insane may not be a powerful enough word to describe what happens to an individual when they are completely and utterly corrupted by their own power. Both Hitler and Stalin, even Pol Pot for that matter were all obsessed by a personal if however misguided vision of a new world order.

posted by gomedome on December 24, 2004 at 2:24 PM | link to this | reply

hitler was insane

posted by calmcantey75 on December 24, 2004 at 2:05 PM | link to this | reply

Uniter -- Hitler, contrary to popular misconception was not an athiest

One need only read some of his writings to see that his beliefs were primarly aligned with Christianity. Though he did add his own version of zealousness to a self defined proclamation of being a divine power unto himself, his description of God is decidedly biblical. You will find many references to this such as the one below.

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." ....Adolph Hitler circa 1941.

posted by gomedome on December 24, 2004 at 2:00 PM | link to this | reply

STRONGLY DISAGREE

How silly it is to conclude that because all the atheists you know are good fellows, atheism, is the way to build a better world for all. Consider that the two greatest destroyers of life in the 20th century, Stalin and Hitler, were atheists. Their ego was supreme--they didn't believe in a power greater then themselves. We're all, to different degrees, subjective. That's inescapable. Spirituality, which can be more objective than religion, can lead us to walk a higher path. See my blog: Prophet, Visionary, Writes On, "What's It All About?" and my earlier blog.

posted by Uniter on December 24, 2004 at 12:12 PM | link to this | reply

Your story is incomplete. Read my blogs: Prophet, Visionary, writes on "What's It All About?" and my earlier blog.

posted by Uniter on December 24, 2004 at 11:50 AM | link to this | reply

westwend --- I feel I am picking up where I left off 4 months ago

as for your last comment all I can say is Right On. ...wasn't that the last comment I left you 4 months ago?

posted by gomedome on December 24, 2004 at 11:40 AM | link to this | reply

Kooka has faith

in things unseen

he treats others well without a vision of a reward or even a god.

he doesn't have to in the sense that he doesn't see reward and punishment -- he just sees that he should treat others well.

that is a whole lot better than doing things because you want the reward of heaven or fear the punishment of hell.

posted by Xeno-x on December 24, 2004 at 10:03 AM | link to this | reply

being a part of something bigger

to be so

all you have to do is to be

everything that lives is part of something bigger: the universe as an organism

the development of the universe up through and beyond the present.

and the best way to be part of that something bigger is to live as Kooka lives.

no matter our religion and other such -- if we live the way Kooka lives then we are part of that something bigger and we express that something bigger in the best terms anyone can.

"Ye call me, Lord, Lord, but do not the things I command."

this refers to Christians who aren't as good as Kooka.

They take the label but not the actualization of the religion.

they see themselves as holy but don't act holy toward others, but rather they act selfishly and uncaringly.

this is attributed to Kooka as faith, to be sure.

posted by Xeno-x on December 24, 2004 at 10:02 AM | link to this | reply

JustA

First off that is not a real quote. When you take various words a put them in whatever order you wish, you are not quoting a person. That is a something that is a very much shows a lack of integrity. Btu I am not going to question you integrity, because I believe you were as confused as you often are. Although if you wish I could go to one of your posts and take a few words here and a few words there and show that you believe God to be the greatest evil in ever, trust me it could be done.

So just to set the record straight right away, YOU DID NOT QUOTE ME.

Now on to the very much blurred views that you expressed that do not fit and are not even close to what I was trying to say.

First off not all truth is positive and not all negative aspects are lies. We live in a very gray universe, black and white are rely not that clear most of the time. Such an idea is a pipe dream that many who believe in God seem to wish to believe in. It is one of the biggest problems we have in the world right now. So many wish to see all as black and white and not accept the areas of gray. The world really would be a much better place if you and others saw this and accepted it as being fact.

Next you say 'Atheists miss only one thing…that they are a part of a bigger picture'. We are well aware that we are part of the bigger picture. Just as we are aware that the cells of our bodies are part of the bigger picture that is us. I am fairly sure that was part of my post in fact. For even though we do not know what function we perform (No one does, even the Bible does not really give nay good ideas on this one, unless being God's pet is the end all and be all of our lives, in which case we would all be better off to just not be born) but we are sure that there is a need for us to be here. I know of no atheist who does not think this way, so I am very much puzzled as to where you came up with such a conclusion.

You then say "now step up to the plate and admit (because you already have)…that there is something bigger than you", Which I have admitted, but it is not God or anything like any of the man made ideas of God. It really should not even be called God. It is the universe and it is not aware or sentient nor does it have emotions or any thing like that.

"…and that it needs (loves) you…because it created you for a reason", need yes, love no. Do you love your blood cells? Do you love your bladder? Do you love your nose hairs? Well I do not really love any of the parts of my bodies, since it is really hard to love something like that, partially because it is something that is taken for granted but also at the same time you can not became attached to parts of your bodies, especially when you are not really even aware of them. Now I need them and my body went and created them for a purpose and I would be in real bad shape with out them, btu I honestly can not say that I love them.

Very poor logic here. I have accepted my role in the universe and it is very clear to me that there is no God. You have yet to find nay real logic to show me otherwise.

posted by kooka_lives on December 24, 2004 at 8:41 AM | link to this | reply

kooka

To quote you: “Faith, apart of, natural function, as important as, the universe has a need, so it continues to keep on creating life, we are playing a role, it is really great to know that you are part of something bigger, and is not trying to force you to be something you are not, 'Do un to others as you would have them do un to you', and seeing the positive (Truth) and negatives (lies), Just because someone lives a lifestyle that does not agree with yours or has a different set of beliefs than you do, does not for one moment mean that those people should not be allowed to live the life they choose to…”

Atheists miss only one thing…that they are a part of a bigger picture…they are fulfilling a need. Great post kooka…now step up to the plate and admit (because you already have)…that there is something bigger than you…and that it needs (loves) you…because it created you for a reason…no force here, just see it when you are ready…after all…the only thing that you care about knowing (or speaking)…is The Truth…right…

So what is your role in Existence?

posted by justAcarpenter on December 24, 2004 at 1:47 AM | link to this | reply

Kooka...

WHat a great post. I am not religious at all. I am spiritual. You speak the truth...I have to say just one more time...what a great post.

posted by SincerityAnna on December 23, 2004 at 11:20 AM | link to this | reply

gomedome

You're back. Great to see ya.
It really is just something you do not notice because it is just there.
I find that in general atheists do not walk around and promote that they have these qualities. But they generally seem to be there. Atheists are not big on pointing out that positives of their lifestyles because they figure that most people should just be that way without having to be told that they should, so why try to push it. This really is the first time I have expressed atheism in this manner myself. It is amazing at how debating with believers can help to make it that much clearer as to why atheism has such a strength to it.
I did not really notice it until I decided to write this post.

posted by kooka_lives on December 23, 2004 at 10:07 AM | link to this | reply

kooka_lives --- for a minute there

it seemed as if you were describing my group of close friends. Until I read this posting I did not really notice that most of the people I associate with harbour most or all of these qualities.