Comments on SORRY, BUT GOD IS NOT ALL-POWERFUL

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then ody

let us seek together

posted by Xeno-x on December 22, 2004 at 7:01 AM | link to this | reply

westwend

Good points.  I have not conflicts concerning your statements.

posted by telemachus on December 21, 2004 at 8:51 AM | link to this | reply

ody

you said, and I quote

westwend
my knowledge is incomplete.

Posted by Odysseus on December 20, 2004 at 6:26 PM (permalink)

so this has to mean that your concept of god just might be incomplete?

all concepts of god are.

that is why we must seek.

"seek and ye shall find."

you won't find unless you seek.

seeking is the first part.

there is an entire universe out there.

if we decide to stay with our preconceived and tended perceptions, like lounging around in our comfortable chair in our comfortable living room, we will never know of the entire world around us.

there is no such thing as perfect perception or total comfort.

that comfortable life can be quite disrupted with the right events.

posted by Xeno-x on December 21, 2004 at 6:24 AM | link to this | reply

Kooka

It is so great to be God’s pet. He walks with me and talks with me and feeds me and makes sure I get plenty of exercise. One cool thing is when he takes me out to frolic with other pets, especially female ones. Yikes! There I go, getting in trouble again.

Well in one arena you are right, without God my whole sense of purpose would crumble. I just don’t know what I would do without God. I NEED God! This is not sad. It is a glorious dependency, one that is rooted in the clear perception of the purpose and logic that exudes from all that happens and all that is. I see this, while you see only chaos.

Now I’ve got a question for you. How is one Kooka guy going to sit there and make the statement that: “all concepts of God that man have are flawed”. Kooka, does your intellect transcend that of every man and culture on earth? Are you capable of understanding the concepts of God engendered in every paradigm on the planet? Your aloofness is ridiculous!

The universe confirms the presence of God. The universe confirms the existence of perfection. If it did not, you would not even be able to hold the concept of perfection in your mind. The universe screams the presence of God in countless ways.

Your soul grows more decadent, each time you deny God. Your words are akin to the act of spitting in God’s face. In one statement you profess that you don’t know the workings of the universe and in the next you factually state the non-existence of God! What a contradiction!

Each day that elapses brings you closer to cold non-existence while it brings me closer to the bosom of God. Your hope may exist in only what you can accomplish before your biological depreciation runs its course. My hope is perpetual.

I should read more of your other blogs and so I’ll do that. I hope that perhaps I can find things in which we can agree there.

And regarding the pet thing. In comparison to God, you do not even qualify as a pet. You are so distant from God, that a better comparison would be perhaps a microorganism, if even that. Your self-proclaimed self worth is the pride that prohibits you from conceiving of a power that is cognizant of you and yet greater than you.

posted by telemachus on December 20, 2004 at 10:02 PM | link to this | reply

gee, we actually have one thing in common Kook,

not in the post, but in the comments.

posted by PastorB on December 20, 2004 at 9:47 PM | link to this | reply

jackie

O.K., you've convinced me. I'll try reading some of the other blogs. Perhaps I'll find something I can agree with there. LOL

posted by telemachus on December 20, 2004 at 9:30 PM | link to this | reply

Actually I also was a paramedic for about 4 years.  I saw some pretty miraculous recoveries and survivals.  Still, I can't say I know enough to decide about our bodies and their structure

posted by Kelli on December 20, 2004 at 8:13 PM | link to this | reply

I will react, most definately.  If I feel I am being hit up for yet another argument.  I get hit up for that a lot, so maybe I am hypersensative.

See how perceptions work?  I percieved you as a threat, and you me, but I meant no threat when I first left a comment, and neither do you.

Not many will talk to me long enough to understand that.  Thanks for doing that and thanks for your persistence in finding out.

Sorry is my comment sounded like I had an attitude, I am not good at saying things other than the way I am thinking, I am not a writer, I just think a lot.  

posted by Kelli on December 20, 2004 at 8:11 PM | link to this | reply

Kelli

I am not pissed off at you. I did misunderstand the point you were trying to make. Reading back through your comments it is still hard to figure out that that is the point you were going for. It seems like it was only your last comment in which you say you were not knowledgeable to make such a statement.

I do not get pissed off easily and you have not done it. Now Ody is very close to it right now.

Although you did say 'You have no idea what you are talking about. When you do, then you'll change your mind' and you also made an assumption that I had not gone to med school. For although that is correct, you still did not know if I might have taken some classes and dropped out or some such thing. You started off by making comments that suggested tat you had better knowledge over such things than I did. I checked your bio and saw that you were a dental assistant and figured that you had taken a few classes in such things and were trying to show a level of superiority in such knowledge due to your comments here about me needing and MD before I should be making such statements.

As I said, my statement was not based on just my own knowledge of the human body, but on what I have learned from doctors. A lot of which was from my mother's near death accident, which they very often talked about the problems that are present in the human body. At the same time it did show just how well built the human body is as well.

What you have to understand is just how complex the human body is and in something that complex you can have a basic design which is really great, but there are going to be many various flaws because ti really is impossible to get so much complexity to work right all the time.

I could have sworn you have commented in other posts of mine in the past though. And I have said nothing about you hating yourself, so I am puzzled as to where that comes from.

posted by kooka_lives on December 20, 2004 at 8:04 PM | link to this | reply

NO, I am saying I am not knowledgable ENOUGH to make such a statement.  There is really something wrong with the way I say things because it pisses people off and it's the last thing I'm aiming for.,  I've never talked to you but today and you're writing me a book about how good I think I am and I hate myself!  What is UP with that!!!

posted by Kelli on December 20, 2004 at 7:47 PM | link to this | reply

Kelli

That kind of statement just needs a very basic knowledge of the human body. I know enough about the human body to know that is both great and flawed at the same time.

Are you saying the doctors I know are less knowledgeable than you?

In fact I am trying to think of any time I have ever talked with a doctor about anything serious and he or she has not more or less said just that. I would think the best doctors would be the ones who were most aware of just how flawed a human body is above how great the body is. It make more sense ot be able to heal better by knowing where the flaws are over knowing where the strengths are. You can not repair something if you believe that the strength of it are more important the flaws, since it will be the flaws which cause the problems and need to be looked at.

Next time I am in a doctor's office I will ask them straight out what they think about this.

posted by kooka_lives on December 20, 2004 at 7:43 PM | link to this | reply

Ode

First, I am not trying to make a case in defense of any persons rejection of God, I am simply pointing out that if you read through this particular persons other writings you can get a accurate picture of his life and the things that provide fullfillment for him. Things that he says provide him with meaning nd satisfaction that preclude a need for ' God '. I think kooka makes himself easy to see in his writing, that is what I find interesting, and that is what I am pointing out. You really only get a small piece of the puzzle by only reading the Religious blog. I think most people who contend with him only read his religious blog.

posted by calmcantey75 on December 20, 2004 at 7:31 PM | link to this | reply

Thankyou, for proving my point.  I definately am not going to explain, you probably are sad or something I don't know.  Like I said, You can believe what you want and so can I, it doesn't mean I don't like you.  In saying being an MD, it's because that type of statement needs a lot of knowledge, more than you and I have, to say.  You can interpret it however you want.,  Good luck.

posted by Kelli on December 20, 2004 at 7:30 PM | link to this | reply

Jackie

Thank you.
I know you are one who seems to read many of my other blogs.
Ody seems to only read my more controversial blogs and judges me fully on what I write here. Most of his problems seem to come from the fact that I disagree with his views and so my views must be very negative and meaningless because they are not his.

posted by kooka_lives on December 20, 2004 at 7:28 PM | link to this | reply

Kelli

When did I jump all over you?

Was it after you tried to make it sound like anyone who doe snot have a MD knows nothing at all about the human body?

You came in here with an attitude, if you feel I jumped on you about anything, it was because I was not about to put up with such an ego as what I saw in your comments.

I would not trust myself to perform any kind of surgeries or such. I would not trust myself to give any serious medical advice. i would not trust my self to recommend nay kind or prescriptions. But I know enough about the human body to be able to point out that is is both a well built construct and well as a greatly flawed construct. One does not need a MD to be able to see that. Although I have talked to many Doctors and paramedics and so on who agree with that.

posted by kooka_lives on December 20, 2004 at 7:25 PM | link to this | reply

Ody

I am very glad I do not live in the fantasy world you live in.

All the concepts of God that man has are very much flawed. To believe otherwise is to be blind. But you love the blindness. You embrace the blindness. In fact your whole sense of purpose would crumble if you were to ever open your eyes and moved beyond the blindness. It is really very sad.

You have created what you wish to believe because for whatever reasons you will not accept the simple facts of the universe. You wish for there to be such a thing as perfection. You can not accept death or endings. All must be black and white to you. Otherwise we know little and the answers are not easy.

You ideas are of a very unrealistic world.

My soul grows more and more the more I see just how much I do not need the idea of God in my life in order to grow. it is actually amazing at how I often end up seeing the universe so much clearer after I look at eh load of BS that is fed to me by you and others who seem to willingly be blind to the truth. When I look at how you see things and see just how very much it does not work I grow and see things even clearer. My soul becomes stronger because you make it all the more clear as to where I need to place my faith in things, and you make it very clear that my faith should be placed as far from God as possible if I wish to be happy in life and do true good with my short time in this universe.

Accepting that we all die does not lead to anything negative. it creates more positive. By understanding our time is limited and accepting the full truth of that one can then go and live one's life to its fullest, knowing that everyday matters. It is neither optimistic nor pessimistic to accept death. It is self inflicted ignorance to not accept death.

If you feel I complain to much, then you really do not read much of ,my posts. You go and decide that since I some times, not always, write about the flaws I see with the ideas of God, that somehow that is whining. DO you read your own comments here? That is much closer to be whimpering that when I talk about the flaws I see in God. Your point i s very much weak and lacks any backing whatsoever. I blame God for nothing, because God is not real. I blame Bush for what he has done, which is start a pointless war that was nothing more than part of his own personal agenda and neglect the needs of the people in doing so. Neither God nor Bush is guilty of causing any of the direct problems in my life. I have never made such claims and never will. I have very often talked about just how meaningful my life is, read blogs other than this one and you will see that. I think this shows you have a blindness towards me. You only wish to see what you desire to see about me. You will not read anything but the posts I write that you do not agree with and somehow that means that I am negative because I can not agree with the way you see things, because I just am unable to live in such a fantasy world.

You only see meaninglessness in my writings here because you wish to be blinded to my ideas. If you have been reading my posts for months, then you are just not wishing to really read what I am often saying.

As for the pet thing, I am nobody's pet. I have a sense of self worth that I hope someday you can have for yourself. I personally believe that everyone should be bale to having a meaningful life without the need of some higher power such as your fictional God, to give it to them. I very much feel sorry for you since it is very obvious to me that you have no true sense of self worth.

posted by kooka_lives on December 20, 2004 at 7:20 PM | link to this | reply

jackie

Well I agree with that but I want to know which specific posts YOU think engender meaning.

posted by telemachus on December 20, 2004 at 6:40 PM | link to this | reply

Well Ody, go check out his other blogs and read through them

hes a good writer and they are easy to read. You will see that he has a pretty rich life. The blogs give credence to his stand against organized religion. The' Raising Kids in a Modern World' blog is good.

posted by calmcantey75 on December 20, 2004 at 6:33 PM | link to this | reply

westwend

my knowledge is incomplete.

posted by telemachus on December 20, 2004 at 6:26 PM | link to this | reply

jackie

Please give me some links to some of the Kooka posts you think are most meaningful.

posted by telemachus on December 20, 2004 at 6:24 PM | link to this | reply

Westwend, if you read more closely, I told Kooka that I respect Kooka.  I don't expect anyone to have the same anything.  I have never condemned anyone for what they PERCIEVE as I have had quite a taste of it. 

I reiterated you because Kooka jumped all over me.  As does everyone, and it's only because I tell the truth.

posted by Kelli on December 20, 2004 at 6:07 PM | link to this | reply

Ody Kooka does talk about his life

in his other blogs.

posted by calmcantey75 on December 20, 2004 at 6:05 PM | link to this | reply

yes, kelli and ody

perception IS everything
but we all have to understand that
"we see in part and we know in part" I Cor 13
all of us
each of us perceives the world differently from the rest of us.
and that perception is imperfect and incomplete
the problem arises when we feel that our own perception is perfect and complete and that of someone else is not.
and it becomes even more of a problem when we criticize their perception coming from the incompleteness of our own.
"when that which is complete is come, then we shall know as we are known" I Cor 13.
you will more likely come to an agreement with someone else when you acknowledge the incompleteness of your own knowledge.
thus far you haven't

posted by Xeno-x on December 20, 2004 at 5:59 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka, remember?  Perception is everything.  Thanks Odysseus

posted by Kelli on December 20, 2004 at 5:34 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka, my friend.....

... the concept of God is not flawed; in fact it is the only concept that can make sense of the things that you perceive. God is the only explanation that you have. Without the option of God, you can see only flaws and eventual death.

Look, everything IS perfect, that is, it is perfect everywhere except in your cage, where things are purposefully made imperfect to encourage you in certain directions. Directions that work to encourage the growth of your soul. Your boys, and I, are in the cage with you, my friend.

Listen, I say that you wish to be God because you cannot be content with being God’s pet. You have the power to limit God’s intrusion into yourself. God allows you this freedom because it is only by consciously choosing what is best for yourself that you can transcend the limitations of other types of organic matter and thereby distinguish yourself from it. Hence, by exercising your freedom to approach God, you expand yourself. You can never expand yourself by embracing nihilism, as that is only accepting doom as unavoidable. As a result, it leads to a loss of energy, vigor, and optimism.

Perhaps you disregard flaws in your life, but certainly on the blogit you concentrate and focus on flaws in your environment and criticize God for their presence. You use God only as a thrashing post upon which you throw all of your shit, that is, when you’re not throwing it at George Bush. Stop blaming other people. Swallow hard and bear up! If you live such a meaningful life, then tell about it on blogit, instead of your constant whimpering. I’ve been reading you for months, patiently waiting for that meaningfulness. Give me some of it! And uh, I do have a clue for you about one thing; you need to try harder to be a good pet.

posted by telemachus on December 20, 2004 at 5:30 PM | link to this | reply

Jackie O, I agree.  The mind and the spirit do not agree.

posted by Kelli on December 20, 2004 at 5:14 PM | link to this | reply

I believe that science fiction is attainable

I believe the human spirit can attain anything. The problem is the mind.

posted by calmcantey75 on December 20, 2004 at 5:07 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka.  I THINK DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU.  I RESPECT YOUR OPINION.  Thankyou

posted by Kelli on December 20, 2004 at 4:52 PM | link to this | reply

Kelli

I need no MD to be aware of the human body.
Are you trying to claim that the human body has no flaws in it then?
Are you trying to say that it is not a fragile construct?
Are you claiming that wisdom teeth have a use?
Please show me just how the human body is so perfect.

I have said that the human body is both well built and flawed at the same time. Do you honestly disagree with this?

You do not know my background either and one does not need an MD to have studied the human body and know the basic workings of it. You do not know my knowledge and it is about the ultimate ego to believe that only those with MD's can possible understand how the human body works.

posted by kooka_lives on December 20, 2004 at 4:44 PM | link to this | reply

Ody

I have yet to ever limit myself nearly as much as you limit yourself. You clearly can not see beyond the accepted teachings of the church. You claim to, but time and time again you go straight back to the very flawed and idiotic idea of God.

One can find flaw in something while be amazed by it at the same time. I do not believe everything is perfect, do You? You try to claim that be my finding the flaws in things that I am looking at them negatively which is very much far from the truth. I enjoy the simple beauty of things everyday of my life. I enjoy the simple hugging of my boys, yet I know for a fact that they both are not always perfect and in order for me to make the best of them I have to be aware of those imperfections in them. if I were just to pretend to not notice such things then I can not improve them or be aware that they are there when such flaws affect my life.

Atheists DO NOT wish to be God. I have yet to figure out where you get such a idiotic idea from. Mt guess it that because you can not figure out how to live without something such as God to worship, you can not understand how a person can live without worshipping something. I worship nothing. I have no need to worship anything. I do not see myself as God nor am I trying to replace a need for God with myself. That is about as absurd as you can get.

I have not limited God, If there is a God then that God is already limited. I am very unclear as to where you think I have the power (OR where anyone has such power, outside of fiction) to give or take power form God. God is limited because he is limited.

As for expanding myself, I do that every day of my life. I do that be NOT believing in God. I find that those who believe in God are most often the ones who are limiting themselves and NOT allowing for any kind of expansion of the mind.

Your comment here clearly shows you to favor being blind over being aware. I am very much aware of the flaws in the universe and that in the end we all will die. I do not see this as being negative or that such knowledge takes away from anything. I will not live blind and in denial of what is really there. I accept those flaws and the simple fact that death comes for all, but I do not focus on those flaws nor do I make those flaws a central part of my life. I generally disregard the flaws and accept the positive side of things, but being aware of the flaws helps me to better see where possible problems might lie.

Your whole comment was nothing but one great big insult. You seem to have decided to just insult me at every turn. You do not really debate me or try to really give any logical challenge to my thoughts. You try to cut me down and discredit me and my ideas. You have yet to present a better idea. Your thinking is so limited that you can NOT expand beyond the generic, outdated and completely man made ideas of God as taught by the Church.

I am already positive that I enjoy life much more than you do. You see I have no need to look for some great being or for something beyond me to give my life meaning. My life has meaning because I choose to live a meaningful life.

I am very sorry that you need God to give your life any meaning. I am sorry that by seeing the flaws in the universe and being very aware of what is happening around me I am somehow coming off to you as complaining about them. You obviously have no clue about things and that show greatly in your comment here.

posted by kooka_lives on December 20, 2004 at 4:38 PM | link to this | reply

Is there a target on my forehead or something?   I get targeted for supposedly NOT believing and now FOR believing.  DAMN!

posted by Kelli on December 20, 2004 at 4:23 PM | link to this | reply

perception is everything. you have no idea of my background other than

what I have shared.  Like I said, get you MD, than we will talk

posted by Kelli on December 20, 2004 at 4:21 PM | link to this | reply

Kelli

I have studied the human body. I know of just how flawed it is. One does not need a medical degree to know this. A human body creates cancer because it just does not know better. A human body can seem to be running fine and then have a leg snap due to the slightest of movements. We have organs that have no use at all, you being a dental assistant would be very well aware of wisdom teeth. If we allow our nails to grow uncontrollably they will end up causes our bodies damage. The list could go on and on. Our bodies are a great design, but they are greatly flawed at the same time.

posted by kooka_lives on December 20, 2004 at 4:17 PM | link to this | reply

westwend

You can't play Santa?
You have the belly for it.

posted by kooka_lives on December 20, 2004 at 4:13 PM | link to this | reply

You have no idea what you are talking about.  When you do, then you'll change your mind

posted by Kelli on December 20, 2004 at 4:13 PM | link to this | reply

jackie

It was an interesting idea though.
I think you had brought it up once before.

posted by kooka_lives on December 20, 2004 at 4:12 PM | link to this | reply

mary x

I agree with that fully. Yet that also can be used to disprove God as easily as it can be used to prove God.

posted by kooka_lives on December 20, 2004 at 4:11 PM | link to this | reply

Where did you get your Medical degree?  We'll talk after that

posted by Kelli on December 20, 2004 at 4:10 PM | link to this | reply

kelli

Do you know how easy it is for our bodies to fall apart?

We are both well build and not well built at the same time. There is much about our bodies that is a waste and not needed as well as weaknesses that hold us back. The design of the human body clearly shows that we were not created as is, but were altered over time. While there are amazing aspects to our bodies that are very much something of wonder, those same bodies are greatly flawed and can be damaged by the smallest of things.

posted by kooka_lives on December 20, 2004 at 4:09 PM | link to this | reply

Whaaaaa! Whaaaaa! Whaaaaa!

Kooka is limited.  Kooka’s perspective is limited.  God gives Kooka the environment and perspective that God wants Kooka to have.  Kooka cannot alter this environment and so Kooka becomes frustrated and criticizes God.  Kooka must learn to work within the play yard that God has set up for him and be a nice little pet.  Kooka criticizes the body that God has given him instead of working himself to perfect it.  Kooka criticizes the solar system instead of marveling at its beauty.  Kooka wants God to explain to him the reasoning for all that God has created but God does not answer to Kooka.  This frustrates Kooka because Kooka doesn’t like being just a pet, Kooka wants to be all that God is, but not by achieving it on his on accord, Kooka wants it given to him by God.  Why should God promote his foremost critic?  Kooka thinks gravity and physics illustrate Gods limitations instead of seeing that they are manifestations of Gods power. Kooka sees the blistering profusion of rocks flying about in space as a limitation of God’s power instead of recognizing that they are there just to keep Gods pets contained where God wants them until God is ready to allow them out of their little cosmic cage.   Kooka complains about all this debris.  Kooka thinks God should clean up his cage a little better.  Kooka thinks God creates too many things because these other things strain Kookas brain and make him realize that he is not God.  Kooka spends his time trying to limit God instead of trying to expand himself.  Kooka wants God to be trapped like him.  Kooka wants out of his playpen.  Whaaaaaa!  Whaaaaaa!  Whaaaaaaa!

posted by telemachus on December 20, 2004 at 9:44 AM | link to this | reply

kooka...

I love this post...I agree with you...

posted by SincerityAnna on December 20, 2004 at 8:49 AM | link to this | reply

yeah i'm back

i'm glad i'm missed
yeah -- saturday was cleaning and preparation for bishop's visit and annual Christmas festival thing -- hanging greens and party afterwards with Santa etc.
and I wasn't Santa -- I can't get away with it.
moving to a point where i can work with homeless and kids in juvenile detention -- there's where the attention needs to be.
gonna post about homeless. still here and growing.

posted by Xeno-x on December 20, 2004 at 8:12 AM | link to this | reply

KELLI -- NO NOT A WELL BUILT MACHINE

still has innumerable flaws even after billions of years of development of organisms -- genetic, etc. -- but it's still better than any devisement of the human imagination.

posted by Xeno-x on December 20, 2004 at 8:09 AM | link to this | reply

"We are not really a well built machine"  Go to med school.  See. 

posted by Kelli on December 19, 2004 at 9:11 PM | link to this | reply

Rev,

There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio."

posted by Blanche. on December 19, 2004 at 9:09 PM | link to this | reply

yeah, I know there are some logic flaws to that theory

just a little science fiction I thought Id throw out there.

posted by calmcantey75 on December 19, 2004 at 8:35 PM | link to this | reply

Yeah, I remember that post. As you know, I think prayer and so-called

spells or focused thinking all operate on the same level -- quantum energy being shifted and moved.  Jesus was trying to teach people about faith, and the power of believing...so much can be done if we only believed.  The mind has a lot of power...same thing with prayers, spells, affirmations, etc.

By the way, check out my post in Life According to Ariala from earlier today.  I attended a Renaissance concert today.  You and your dad would have really enjoyed it.

posted by Ariala on December 19, 2004 at 8:14 PM | link to this | reply

Ariala

I have not done a post about the spell itself yet. I was waiting to give it time to work. I did write a post about how spells are like prayer, but that was all.

If I have the time, I plan to write a post this week explaining the spell itself and pointing out the possible effects it may have had. As with prayer and such it is subjective as to if it worked, which will be a main focus of the post.

posted by kooka_lives on December 19, 2004 at 8:09 PM | link to this | reply

Thanks for sharing that kooka...by the way, how did your seven-day

spell finally work out?  Maybe I missed a post about that.

posted by Ariala on December 19, 2004 at 8:05 PM | link to this | reply

Ariala

My wife believes in God, but not in any religion. She sees the Bible as being myth though. She just believes that there is something out there that is similar to the Biblical version of God. Her belief is not very defined really. She is hard one to classify as being a believer.

She has had more problems in her life due to religion than I have. She was raised in a very religious family and she saw first hand the problems caused by blind faith.

Her God is not the God of the Bible but is closer to it than any ideas of God I would be willing to accept.

posted by kooka_lives on December 19, 2004 at 8:03 PM | link to this | reply

kooka, did I read in one of your posts that that your wife is a believer?

Yeah, I always miss him...but don't tell him I said that. 

posted by Ariala on December 19, 2004 at 7:56 PM | link to this | reply

Ariala

Haven't heard from him today myself.

I know he is very active with the Church and being the Sunday before Christmas, most likely they had stuff going on there.

I'm sure he will enjoy learning that he was missed.

posted by kooka_lives on December 19, 2004 at 7:54 PM | link to this | reply

jackie

I can not buy into that. If God is holding us accountable for the wrongs done by Adam and Eve, then he is a very pathetic God. He is nothing but ego then. I do not believe any one should be held guilty of sins of the father. If we are still to be punished for what we did not do, but our ancestors did, then something is just wrong there.

There are also some flaws in that logic. Adam and Eve did not seem to be able to reproduce until after they were thrown out of Eden.

The planets are inhabitable and so we can not possible live on most of them. Mars is really the only one that looks ot be usable by use, unless we drastically change our forms. We can write stories where we figure out ways to live on some of the others, but such ideas are really far form being doable.

Then there would be the fact of just how long it would take for us to get to a level of population where we would have the need to spread our population so.

And of course that would also go against God being all-knowing. If he had set things up that way, but already knew that man would defy him, then he would have known that setting things up so was a waste.

posted by kooka_lives on December 19, 2004 at 7:50 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka, just saying hello, bro...dad hasn't been around today.

posted by Ariala on December 19, 2004 at 7:44 PM | link to this | reply

Make2short

I agree that there is no solid proof one way or the other.

I generally present ideas here to get people thinking.

Although this one really is one that fits my views better than some. I plan to write a post explaining the two possible ideas of God that could work at some point in the future.

posted by kooka_lives on December 19, 2004 at 7:42 PM | link to this | reply

my theory is

God created the universe and all the other planets for us to eventually inhabit, since there would not have been any death if man had not coomited treason against God and brought the curse. Man would have spread throughout the universe in a non death pepetuation. I believe man originally possesed the ability to use 100 percent of his brain before The Fall and would have been able to invent the advanced technology neccessary ( much faster)to tame the hostile, barren worlds in the solar system and beyond. Not to mention space stations.

posted by calmcantey75 on December 19, 2004 at 6:28 PM | link to this | reply

Your lenses

are focused on one thing, but believers lenses are focused on other things. You see chaos, I see beauty. You see unbreakable laws, I see miracles. You can scoff away some of what I see but not all of it.

On the otherhand, there is a mystery about God that fundamentalists ignore. You can easily catch their errors. But there are pieces in your logic that are missing as well. It is very hard for us who are trained with one set of lenses to put on another and actually see anything. I grew up in a Christian family and always believed in God, so for me it isn't hard to accept miracles and every other thing that goes against rationalism. So I can't just say, check this out and you will know the truth.

I know that one of us is right and the other is wrong, but absolute proof doesn't exist for either one of our theories.

posted by Make2short on December 18, 2004 at 8:09 PM | link to this | reply