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Janes
I never makes such insulting blanket statements as "The only thing the atheist religion has to offer is a self-righteous focus on elevating the individual as his own god; and the assumption that all religions are quackery or a crutch upon which weak people lean because they aren't strong enough in themselves."
I talk about my views as to how I see the world and when I talk about groups such as the Christians, I generally try to say things like "Most of the one's I know', 'It seems as though a good deal of them' and so on. Any time I have made such a blanket statement and someone pointed it out ot me, I have been man enough to say it was a mistake for me to do such and apologized and made a change.
You are insulted because I find flaws with your beliefs and openly write about them. Yet you openly write about the flaws you see in my beliefs system. I have no problem with that since those ar your views and if you see flaws in my beliefs feel free to write about them, because that is part of what we do here. But when you make such a blanket statement, that is insulting and that is something I personally try to avoid and have apologized for when I have done it. Right there you are showing much less respect for me and my beliefs than I show for yours.
Have you been talking to unicorn? You are starting to sound like her.
I mentioned my IQ in a comment about Bush and Kerry's IQs to make a point. I was not bragging nor was I trying to say that I was so much better than everyone. I was just pointing out that there was little point to using IQ as a factor in which one was better, because by that logic I was a better candidate (Which I was, but that was not because of my IQ) and that if we were to start using such logic then most politicians would not be in office, instead it would be people like me and you running things Which might be be bad really, once you get over whatever this is that suddenly happen to you to make you loose the respect I had for you. At first I thought you would be one of those Christians who respect other's ideas and were willing to debate and such and not get emotional about it all. In fact as I recall I warned you that some of my post may upset you, but to not take it personally. It seems that you have deiced to not listen to my advice, but to take it all personally.
I never said all good deeds done by Christians are to get noticed, it is just that atheist do good deeds, but never go about trying to point out that they ar atheist doing such deeds. I do feel that many Christian groups do make a big deal out of the charity and good deeds they d in order to make sure people look at the in a favorable light, otherwise ti would not be so important to make sure all know that they are Christians when they do those deeds. In fact reading through my comment I never really even imply such a thing. I am well aware that many Christians do good deeds because they enjoy doing them and know they are the right thing to do.
I have to greatly disagree about you idea that Atheist have nothing to offer those in spiritual need. There are even many bloggers here who have gone from being Christians to atheist because they have found much in the way of spiritual guidance from atheists. The basic idea of atheism gives person strength in themselves and belief in themselves. A person who believe they are the true force behind their destiny becomes stronger and is able to push through hard times because they do no believe it is some kind of unfair test or some such nonsense. They believe that life is worth living simply because life is all one gets and so one should make the most of it.
I do not believe in God because of any kind of price. I just CAN NOT believe in the Biblical idea of God. I am not trying to make myself anything more than what I am by doing this.
You started off by showing me respect and such, yet now you seem to be going very much away from that. But I will not stop expressing my idea and beliefs. I will however do as much as I can to not be directly insult by making blanket statement and classifying all of one group to be the same. Feel free to pick at my beliefs all you wish, that does not insult me at all. It is when you decided that all atheist are the same. Funny thing is by saying such thing, you help to defend the idea that all Christians fit into a narrow minded, arrogant category which I did not believe you fit into until now.
posted by
kooka_lives
on December 1, 2004 at 5:07 PM
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good westwend
posted by
calmcantey75
on November 29, 2004 at 2:20 PM
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ok
basically Atheists don't believe that God is this or God is that.
They read Christians who believe so. It's easy to glean that god is a control freak from how some Christians typify him.
they question how God can be good and there is so much bad in the world.
etc.
you give someone a valid god and they will believe in the valid god.
you give someone an empty idol and they will turn away.
god has to be real
the god made visible through much Christian expression is not real.
posted by
Xeno-x
on November 29, 2004 at 2:14 PM
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My dear Taps
Your comments are very well taken. Thanks!!!!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 29, 2004 at 7:27 AM
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WOW, Janes - You really laid it on the line. I can see that you have
been bothered greatly by posts written against God and belief in Him and his love. I am not sure what you hoped to accomplish with this post. If it was an argument, you got it. If it was to defend God, he does not need us to defend him. He is fully capable of doing that for himself. If it was to share God's love with others, I think perhaps you focused more on berating atheists than on sharing the love of God and his mercy and grace. This is my opinion I'm afraid. Did you ask for my opinion--well, only in the sense that you posted it in public forum with a comments page. I love you dearly girl and I believe in God and his salvation as you do. But, I'm not quite sure that Blogit is the place for me to preach.
posted by
TAPS.
on November 28, 2004 at 7:38 PM
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Mysteria. . . thanks for your comments.
What happened to you should NEVER happen to anyone! One thing that does give me comfort, when I hear stories such as yours, is my very strong belief that the Christian God (in whom you no longer believe?) will judge that person accordingly. I believe . . . someday. . . there will be justice for the deeds this person has done.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 28, 2004 at 7:11 PM
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ah yes , the never ending battle
ever raging. Let see. I will use my life as an analogy on this subject.
To what group does the person who brutally abused, raped, and tortured me physically, mentally, and spiritually for 5 consecutive years belong to?
This person is a born-again, bible quoting, card caring, god fearing christian.
To what group does the person whom has helped me through and throughout the darkest, bleakest, loneliest, blackest days of my suicidal pathetic life belong to?
This person is an atheist.
This has been my experience.
Thought you'd like to know.
posted by
mysteria
on November 27, 2004 at 7:26 PM
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Kooka, sometimes you just boil my blood
While eating turkey leftovers, I spent some time reading back through some of your posts on religion and spirituality. You mention in your comments that you were insulted by my blog on atheism, and had the audacity to question my lack of respect for your beliefs. Hmmmmm. So let me see if I understand this. I can make a few statements on atheism, and you're insulted, but you can spend months and multiple blogs picking to pieces the Christian faith, putting down those of us who defend it, essentially questioning how anyone with half a brain could follow such tripe, etc. You have no clue the arrogance with which you come across in your blogs on Christians, Republicans, conservatives, etc. And now you're upset that I would have a few negative comments to make about atheists? Oh please!
Yes, you're right, Kooka. I am generally a nice person. I tend towards very civil conversations, and am not afraid to admit when I am wrong. You liked the fact that I am not arrogant. You liked how I was willing at times to back down. Fact is, one could easily assume, after reading your blogs, that you are not a tolerant person. You have such "great ideals" and as long as people agree with you, all is well. After all, you've talked about your extraordinary intelligence, ranking in the top 10% of all humanity, so why shouldn't everyone agree with you and your superior knowledge? (By the way, my IQ is somewhere in that 90th percentile as well, but I don't plan on writing a blog about it.)
And you assume that any good deed done by a group of Christians is just a publicity stunt? Oh please. That is the epitome of arrogance! Those nuns who started St. Elizabeth hospital worked their butts off. They were scrubbing floors and cleaning bedpans -- not for publicity but because they wanted to reach out to people who needed them. . . and to serve God to the best of their abilities.
I'm glad to hear that atheists are out there helping others. That certainly is not what I've seen happening, but I'll take your word for it. The fact is, though, that often many, many people in need are looking for spiritual answers and atheists have nothing to offer of any meaning. When patients ask me about death, when they seek comfort in the dying process, do you think they want to talk with an atheist? Duh. In the end, atheism IS self serving, because the buck stops with you. You look to yourself for answers, you do not acknowledge a higher authority and you are your own little god. I don't mean when I talk about gods that you expect people to bow down to you. Fact is, in God's eyes, any one of us can be our own self serving gods when in pride we decide we can live our own lives and do our own thing without following God. So from that standpoint, even Christians can "worship" their own gods and idols by putting God last in their life.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 27, 2004 at 10:55 AM
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That was just insulting
"The only thing the atheist religion has to offer is a self-righteous focus on elevating the individual as his own god; and the assumption that all religions are quackery or a crutch upon which weak people lean because they aren't strong enough in themselves."
I ma not self-righteous, or at least not as self-righteous as many, many Christians I have know. Everyone is self-righteous to a point. In fact ti is somewhat self-righteous to claim you are not but those who have different views are.
I know of no atheist who has elevated themselves to being a god of any kind. Most atheist I know are very much into the ideas of close friends and family as being the number one thing in their lives. That is not being your own god. None of my atheist friends believe the universe evolves around them at all. But rather that a person needs to be a positive impact on society and just do what is right.
I do believe that many people get into organized religion because they are weak and have no sense of self and need such a crutch, but I also believe there are many who do believe just because they believe.
Atheist do not have such organizations because they just do not go around and publicize that they do good deeds. If a group of atheists get together for a charitable purpose they are not really that worried about getting credit for it. Also, they are not as organized or as wealthy as Churches. If atheist were to every organize in such a way and feel the need to go out and get such attention, they would show that they have the same morals as any group of Christians out there. Atheist are not really concerned about converting people by showing their good deeds. Atheist mostly live by the idea of live and let live and so they do good deeds because they are the right thing to do, not to try and prove that there beliefs are better because they do such deeds. Basically atheist do not need an excuse to do good.
All of the atheist I know are drug free, loyal to their partners, very much nonviolent and ar very giving. I think the big misunderstanding comes from the simple fact that we do not go around and preach our beliefs to everyone. The whole idea of prisoners being reformed through Christianity and not atheism only really works because the Atheist are going to help others out but not try to convert them, while the Christians are going to be converting the person while helping them out I find the while idea misleading because the people really do not convert to atheism because atheist do not really push the idea of converting people. If someone becomes an atheist while in prison then most likely they really had no faith to begin with and instead of really being converted they have instead just decided to openly admit they do not believe in God and muse that more as an excuse as to why they can act the way they do. In some ways it is not true atheism becomes it comes forma need to hate God and not follow God's laws, not from a true disbelief in God. And because of that they are more likely to commit crimes because they feel cheated by God or are trying to justify their lifestyles. A true atheist is not justifying anything through their nonbelief.
Atheism is not about going against God or any such nonsense. Being an atheist is not a way to justify committing crimes or being a negative aspect to society. If those criminals were true atheists, then they would be reformed and see that they should be good because it is just what is best for all.
It bothers me a great deal that you got so insulting in this one. I had not figured from our previous exchanges that you would be so insulting and so such a lack of respect. Should I start to categorize all Christians in the same way you have gone and categorize all atheists? I admit at times I slip, but I have always admitted it to be wrong when someone catches me doing it. I know of no atheist who fits with what you posted as how atheists are. It sounds to me like Christian propaganda. I would challenge you to find a true atheist family and spend an evening with them and see just how 'self-righteous' they are. Believe it or not I do not go around telling everyone I can that there is no God. I do not tell my sons that religions are evil or any such thing. If you did not know I was an atheist you would be hard pressed to find any real signs of my beliefs just by watching me on a regular day.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 27, 2004 at 9:44 AM
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