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L.E. Gant
Bummer. It sounds very interesting.
posted by
Julia.
on November 21, 2004 at 6:39 PM
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No.
If I ever share it, it'll be in a blog, but I have no intention of doing so at this time.
posted by
L.E.Gant
on November 20, 2004 at 7:51 PM
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L.E. Gant,
Can you share that?? I would love to see it!!
posted by
Julia.
on November 19, 2004 at 7:50 AM
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Anna,
Thanks for your comment. I might flip burgers when I retire, lol.
posted by
Julia.
on November 19, 2004 at 7:49 AM
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Quirky:
One of my favourite poems (of my own work) was written in praise of a plastic cup! It still, to this day, gives me creative satisfaction even though it was crassly comercial - commissioned, suject matter picked by the client, length specified, informed what words had to be in it; in other words, not a very likely subject for creativity or creative satisfaction. It's still the measure I use to decide whether something I write is creative and whther I'm getting creative satisfaction.
posted by
L.E.Gant
on November 18, 2004 at 11:17 PM
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Frankly I would chose the money. Better to get paid to do what I do well rather than settling for a job flipping burgers.
posted by
AnnaMJ
on November 18, 2004 at 10:44 PM
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L.E. Gant,
thanks for your comment. I do agree with you; however, I never meant to imply that there isn't tremendous creativity and wordsmithing involved in commercial copywriting...I've been doing it for decades, so I know there is. But for me personally, there is greater
creative satisfaction in writing short stories, poems, screenplays etc. And, I see a clear distinction between creativity and creative satisfaction.
posted by
Julia.
on November 18, 2004 at 11:53 AM
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Why should it matter?
It always gets me when people talk about "Creativity" vs "Commercialism". Personally, I don't see why the two can't go together.
When doing "commercial" writing, you have to follow a structure. Sure, there's a bit of forcing on the topics, but it's the writing that counts. It takes a lot of talent to be persuasive whether you are totlally into that topic or not. You become a "wordsmith". What happens when you do the "creative" stuff? Virtualy the same- you follow a structure, the same structures as you would for commercial writing. The only difference is that you can indulge yourself in choosing the topic.
I can always remember my first critic (I wrote a lot of poetry when I was a teenager). He was a teacher, but what he hammered into my thick skull was that, before I could write good poetry, I had to know the structures that I could use. It did not matter whether I was writing haikus or sonnets or odes or ballads. First, I had to get the rhythm, and then build in the meaning. Similarly with novels and short stories and articles: first you get the structure right.
Is a copywriting "hack" any less of a word artist than Tennyson or Shelley or Joyce or whoever your favourite writer is or was? Definitely not!
The "hacks" are at least equal to the best "artistic" writers in the Craft. And, in my opinion, might have to be even better, since they have to be clear, precise, and virtualy perfect each time they put out a piece!
posted by
L.E.Gant
on November 18, 2004 at 2:20 AM
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beach,
it sounds like a complementary friendship...the best kind.
posted by
Julia.
on November 17, 2004 at 5:05 PM
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Quirky, I'll tell you something funny though
I envy my friend with her business work, and the opportunity to express herself in fiction and on stage and screen; and she envies me my personal life. But we bounce ideas of each other and tell each other to get a move on.
posted by
beachbelle
on November 17, 2004 at 4:57 PM
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Beach,
thanks for that. Yeah, I think the fear is really the biggest factor, regardless of marital status or whatever else is going on. It's something I need to come to terms with, for sure.
posted by
Julia.
on November 17, 2004 at 4:50 PM
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QA
I wondered about that fear of failure part because I know you could do it.
posted by
beachbelle
on November 17, 2004 at 4:45 PM
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OK, OK you two... I only offered a suggestion ...QA
I do have several friends who split the two activities and pay the bills - commercial and creative. As I am now, I must put family first, and make my way as best I can which in my mind seems to offer me, on an individual lever, fewer choices. Because we can't be so flexible it rules us out of a lot of work. If it were just me I would live and write in NYC or London
posted by
beachbelle
on November 17, 2004 at 4:44 PM
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exstud,
thanks for your insightful comment.
posted by
Julia.
on November 17, 2004 at 4:27 PM
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Alf,
thanks for all that. Most people skipped over that part about fear of failure, which was really what it's all about. I can't get far unless i get over the fear, regardless of how much time I have "available" for the more creative pursuits.
posted by
Julia.
on November 17, 2004 at 4:26 PM
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MariVye,
I know how badly you want to play with those toys, lol.
posted by
Julia.
on November 17, 2004 at 4:23 PM
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Kay,
thanks. I keep meaning to get my hands on a copy of that book.
posted by
Julia.
on November 17, 2004 at 4:22 PM
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canine,
comic books would be fun...can you draw??
posted by
Julia.
on November 17, 2004 at 4:21 PM
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beachbelle,
I have to respectfully disagree with you...IMO, being single gives one fewer choices rather than more. I alone must provide the money for my (and my 3 cats) every need; there is no back-up income should I fail to earn money through whatever writing endeavor I choose. This necessitates a certain rigidity and pragmatism in choosing how to spend my time. However, singleness does provide less constraints upon that time. As for this: not writing fiction does not make you a lesser writer." I agree wholeheartedly and would never ever think that. I was speaking in terms of creative satisfaction.
Thanks for all the comments.
posted by
Julia.
on November 17, 2004 at 4:20 PM
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Klara,
to your first comment: yes...being single demands a certain focus upon the pragmatic. If I don't work I don't eat. But I know that you are right to hold onto the dream we both share, and
will attain one day. Thanks so much!
posted by
Julia.
on November 17, 2004 at 4:12 PM
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You made at least two astute insights in this post. They should guide you well. I agree that writing for business and soul can both be pursued, but yes, that would take lots of energy and will! It would consume most of your free time, probably. But I like to mix the pragmatic/realistic with the romantic/idealistic, because I think each tempers the excesses of the other. We live in an unsatisfactory reality and always will, because if reality ever satisfied us once and for all, we could make no further progress. So what would be the purpose of art? So the realist in us always looks at the world as it is and respects it as it is, but the idealist uses this soberity to make progress, or try to make the world better.
posted by
Dyl_Pickle
on November 17, 2004 at 1:50 PM
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It's a question of translation then, Beach.
When the word "single" is used, for me and many others, it generally means unmarried. Doesn't necessarily mean unattached, or without children or other dependents. I'm sure Quirk will forgive me for starting a conversation on her post here!
posted by
KlaraRoberts
on November 17, 2004 at 12:48 PM
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Quirky...
I think you hit the nail on the head when you talked about the knee jerk reaction brought on by fear of rejection. Thats why many of us have stayed safely with what we know works. You have some great comments here encouraging you and rightly so. The fact is that you can make time if you want to, but you already know that. Asking questions like this is part of the process of overcoming these fears. Keep asking. You are not a sellout.
posted by
A_Norseman
on November 17, 2004 at 12:27 PM
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I was saying that Quirky could if she chose could work as my friend does
she enjoys the best of both worlds ...the security and the buzz of creativity.
I was not suggesting that for you Klara .. and assumed this would be understood because this is Q's blog.
posted by
beachbelle
on November 17, 2004 at 11:57 AM
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Now i know that I read too much. It was Montezuma who wrote about
On Writing.
posted by
canine277
on November 17, 2004 at 11:56 AM
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Klara
of course anyone with dependents has less flexibilty. That's what I am saying. A single person while they must rely on themselves can make a choice without affecting others.
posted by
beachbelle
on November 17, 2004 at 11:53 AM
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Now I have to find the right blog. Sorry roofie.
posted by
canine277
on November 17, 2004 at 11:52 AM
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I misunderstood then, Beach?
You said being single gave more flexibility? As you had a family to feed and educate? Many singles also have this, and we have it all to ourselves. It's a common misconception that singlehood means more freedom, while many times, it's the opposite experience for many of us.
posted by
KlaraRoberts
on November 17, 2004 at 11:52 AM
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Klara, now I am confused ....my comment was to Quirky.
posted by
beachbelle
on November 17, 2004 at 11:48 AM
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Quirky - this is a hard question to answer.. at this point I can go ahead and write creatively because I have a full-time job. If I was to earn my living on writing I guess I'd be spending more time writing what sells because I like my bed, my car, my home, and eating! Though I can see where your dilemma is because writing fiction is fun! Though, I want to earn my living by writing so badly that I think I would jump at the chance to write in the business sector!
posted by
MariVye
on November 17, 2004 at 11:47 AM
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Sorry, I just saw my name... it wasn't me. I mentioned a book on writing that Terry Brooks did, though. I have yet to read King's, though I've heard it's good.
posted by
roofpig
on November 17, 2004 at 11:44 AM
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Someone, I believe it was roofpig, did a blog yesterday about Steven King's
On Writing.
posted by
canine277
on November 17, 2004 at 11:43 AM
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A year ago, when my family was broke, I would have said I'd do anything to help pay the bills. Actually, that need for money got me submitting my work again, and now that the ball is rolling I don't want to stop. The need for money got me over the 'rejection blues'. I read some where that the publication rate is 1 in 20. With your years of writing skill and your amazing mind, I think you could change those odds to 1 in 10. The thing is that we have to expect rejection and always have something out there still when a rejection comes in. If you haven't read Stephen Kings "On Writing" I highly recommend it. It gives a very realistic view of getting paid for fiction.
posted by
Kay-Ren
on November 17, 2004 at 11:37 AM
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Quirky
I'm in the process of writing the
great american novel. But I would write comic books if I could.
posted by
canine277
on November 17, 2004 at 11:04 AM
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I'm confused, Beachie. Did I somehow lose the family (five dependents) I
must single handedly feed and educate? Being single doesn't rule this out. And as for more flexibility, there is actually less, as you must do everything yourself. (Sorry Quirks, I don't usually do this, but you'll forgive me). My family is comprised of six total which I've supported on my own for decades (this includes myself), and my terminally ill younger brother. My problem is no flexibility.
posted by
KlaraRoberts
on November 17, 2004 at 11:00 AM
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Well if you are "selling out" so am I.
In a way being single gives you more choices. You see if I pursue creative aims I must keep in mind that I have a family to feed and educate. I would say you that if you really want to pursue more creative forms of writing that you apportion a percentage of time to that - say 70 per cent on your work and 30 per cent on your own work. But if you are happy as you are - carry on. just because you are not writing fiction does not make you a lesser writer. A single friend of mine does serious work in the mornings and then switches to the creative interests in the afternoon.
People know her routine and it works. She writes business stuff in the morning and other stuff in the afternoon.
I am allowing myself time for creative writing. I have to because that's where my heart is taking me
posted by
beachbelle
on November 17, 2004 at 10:54 AM
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canine,
would you want to be a novelist, non-fiction book writer or something else?
posted by
Julia.
on November 17, 2004 at 10:49 AM
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Like you, Quirks, I have a minor in Marketing. And it's served me well.
Also like you, I would give my soul, literally, to write more creatively (although business writing takes more creativity than others realize). But also like you, I'm single. No one there to pick up the financial pieces should we have to live without funds for even a week. You're doing what you can, how you can do it. Like me. We don't pick our circumstances, and we're just fortunate enough that we can get paid for the writing that sustains us now (business writing). I have deep faith that my time will come to do what I want with my writing, as will yours. Until then, you and I must survive. Exceptional post here, Quirks.
posted by
KlaraRoberts
on November 17, 2004 at 10:41 AM
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If I could I would choose writing period.
posted by
canine277
on November 17, 2004 at 10:35 AM
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Ariala,
When you figure out how to do that, will you share your ideas with me?? That sounds lovely.
posted by
Julia.
on November 17, 2004 at 9:40 AM
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Excellent post...and good question. It has worked out that I get to do
both, so I really can't complain. My goal now is to become independently wealthy SOMEHOW and have the time to write, play music and live in the woods full-time.
posted by
Ariala
on November 17, 2004 at 9:32 AM
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tanoo,
I see what you are saying. Perhaps I should have said "creative satisfaction" rather than creativity. My day job has many facets of creativity but it's not always creatively satisfying--understand the difference?
posted by
Julia.
on November 17, 2004 at 8:52 AM
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Honestly, Id choose the money because im at a point in my life where I need to make money to achieve the independance that I want.... writing for money and creaivity go hand in hand in many ways.... anyone can write, but not everyone is good, and if youre good, you make money and when youre good, other doors open and soon you will be able to use that creativity to its full extent....
posted by
Tanoolicious
on November 17, 2004 at 8:37 AM
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